Humans, Other Beings in/Relevant to the Quran, Part 21

 

130.   JACOB - THE 3. AND LAST OF THE 3 JEWISH PATRIARCHS

Jacob was the second son of Isaac and the grandson of Abraham. If he is not fiction, he thus must have lived somewhere around 1800 BC. He was not an entirely sympathetic person, as he cheated his twin brother Esau. He married the two sisters Leah and Rachel, the daughters of his uncle Laban (the brother of his mother Rebecca) in Haran in what in now north Iraq. He had 12 sons, the second youngest was Joseph who was sold into slavery in Egypt 17 years old according to the Bible (in the Quran it is not totally clear whether he was taken by foreigners or sold by his brothers, and also his age is not given there).

Like all good quality persons in the Bible, the Quran claims Jacob was a Muslim. For one thing he in case could not have been a good Muslim in case, as he was married to two sisters at the same time, something which is clearly prohibited by Allah. For another thing the claim is highly unlikely to be true, for him like for all other Biblical persons (and for Alexander the Great), as neither science nor Islam has been able to document one single trace of a religion like Islam, a god like Allah, or a book like the Quran older than 610 AD when Muhammad started his mission. (And for a third the Bible clearly tells Jacob’s god was Yahweh, not Allah - two very different gods with very different religions, moral codes, etc. There are many proofs for that Yahweh and Allah were not the same god - most of them circumstantial ones, but some of them strong.

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001 2/40aa: "- - - Children of Israel - - -". Jews (literally; descendant of the patriarch Jacob/Israel).

002 2/47aa: "- - - Children of Israel - - -". Jews (literally; descendant of the patriarch Jacob/Israel).

003 2/50a: “- - - We (Allah*) divided the sea for you (Moses and his Jews*) - - -“. From other places in the Quran (and in most translations of the Bible) it is told that this was the Red Sea. But in the Hebrew original the name is Yam Suph, which as well can mean “The Sea of Reeds” (this also is confirmed in many footnotes in NIV (“New International Version” of the Bible)). The Sea of Reeds (also called the Timsah Sea) used to be a big lake where the Suez Canal now runs – not far from the Bitter Seas. The name tells it was just a shallow lake – the longest reeds we have been able to find, is a kind of rice that can be up to 5 - 7 m long and grows in the big sea Tonle Sap in Cambodia, and the reeds growing in this area of Egypt are shorter - - - and the water cannot be deeper than the reeds get their “heads” above the water to get that name.

Also look at the map: Goshen where the Jews settled was in the river delta of the Nile. To get to Sinai they had to go south-south-east. It would be stupidity beyond any credibility to go so far west that they ended at the western side of the Red Sea instead of walking all the way on dry land, and thus force such a huge number of people and animals to cross the sea by boats they did not have (remember they did not know about the opening of the sea – fire/smoke-column or not (= the pathfinder/Yahweh according to the Bible)). After all they according to the Bible were 600ooo men + women + children + animals and belongings = some 2.ooo.ooo humans at least. (Theoretically it is quite possible for 70 – 100 (depending on how many wives his 11 sons in the group had) persons that came with Jacob + Joseph and his family, to become may be 2.ooo.ooo “Jews” 430 years later.)

Science tells that – if the Exodus took place – the “Jews” quite likely were overtaken as they marched or camped along that lake, just like the Hebrew name in the OT may indicate.

004 2/111b: "- - - Jews - - -". A time anomaly. No-one of the users of the claimed timeless and much copied "Mother Book" (= similar to the Quran according to the Quran, as also the Quran is claimed to be a copy of that book) could understand this word until it was coined. As mentioned Homo Sapiens - modern man - developed some 160ooo - 200ooo (perhaps ca. 195ooo) years ago according to science. The Quran claims that all people everywhere and to all times have been sent prophets or messengers from Allah, which means Allah has sent his representatives for at least that long - and may be much longer, as there were other races of humans for a long time before - Homo Neandertalis, Homo Habilis, and Homo Erectus just to mention 3 of many. All these prophets and messengers according to the Quran got a copy of the claimed "Mother Book" (13/39b, 43/4b+c, 85/21/22) - a copy of which also the Quran is, which means that the books the claimed prophets and messengers got from Allah if the Quran tells the truth, were similar to the Quran. We have not found exactly when the name "Jew" came into use, but it derived from "Judah" - the 4. son of the Jewish patriarch Jacob. The kingdom of Judah started when Solomon's kingdom was split in 2 - Judah and Israel - after Solomon's death, and it thus is likely the word is from around or a little before 900 BC. This means that all the claimed prophets/messengers from Allah for may be some 192ooo years could not understand what the word "Jew" - and MANY others in the Quran - meant and thus what information the word/words included. And none would understand one word before man learnt how to read some thousand years ago. The claim that all human societies through the times have had prophets/messengers each with a copy similar to the Quran, is worth a laugh when you know there only are some thousands of years sins man learnt to read.

##005 2/125e: "We (Allah*) covenanted with Abraham and Ishmael - - -". The Bible is contradicting: (1.Mos.17/21) Yahweh says: "But my covenant I will make with Isaac". And many years later to Isaac's son Jacob (and now Ishmael is totally out of the picture) similar words like the ones which were said to Abraham 2 generations earlier (1.Mos. 28/14): "All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring". There is no doubt according to the Bible with which branch of Abraham's descendants the god covenanted. Even if the Arabs really were descendants of Ishmael, they had belonged to the wrong branch of the family - they were not the offspring of Jacob, and not even of Isaac. And it is likely this might be the reality - at the time when the Torah was written, there was no reason for the writers to place Ishmael and his descendants at the border of Egypt (1.Mos. 25/18) if he really lived in Arabia - Muhammad and his competing religion still was 1000 years into the unknown future when it was written. But for Muhammad the situation was different: It is quite common for emerging sects and religions to "high-jack" parts of a mother religion - it gives "weight" and tradition to the new sect/religion. For Muhammad it would pay to "take over" a known name like Ishmael. It obviously also would pay for him to take over the claimed center of the religious word - even a made up claim works if people believe in it.

Another fact: Modern DNA-analysis has shown that the Arabs are no coherent tribe. They are a mixture of many nations - not strange lying at a crossroad with travelers passing thought, and where sex and alcohol were "the two delightful things" until Muhammad took over. And also Arab tradesmen brought brides and slaves back home even long before Muhammad, not to mention all the slave women who were brought home after the robberies made the Arabs rich enough to afford more/many women. The "Arab Blood" is strongly diluted and mixed up, and even was never a homogenous tribe originally.

006 2/132b: "- - - Jacob - - -". The last of the 3 main Jewish patriarchs. He was the grandson of Abraham - - - and not a single reader of the claimed copies of the timeless "Mother Book" could understand a reference to him until well after he was born. Parallel to 2/124a+c above. Also see 4/13d below.

007 2/132f: (Both Abraham and Jacob said before they died):"Die not except in the Faith of Islam". To say the least of it: Strongly contradicted by the Bible. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs. And one may add: This is one of the kinds of stealing from "mother" and other religions which is quite normal in emerging sects and "daughter" religions - can this have been the case here?

008 2/132g: (Both Abraham and Jacob said before they died):"Die not except in the Faith of Islam". What then if Islam is a made up religion? - as the Quran is full of errors, it at least is from no god, so this is a real possibility. F.x. where will the believers in a brutal war religion believing in dishonesty, end if that religion is made up (f.x. by a cold or sick brain wanting power and riches and women), if there instead is a real and benevolent god at "the other side"?

009 2/132h: "(Jacob said) - - - die not except in the Faith of Islam". Jacob at least was no Muslim, as he was married to two sisters (Leah and Rachel) at the same time, which is strictly forbidden for Muslims. (This in addition to that the only real source for knowledge about the old patriarchs - the Bible - tells a very different story, and includes a very different god).

010 2/133b: (The sons of Jacob promised him before he died): "- - - the One (True) God (Allah*): to Him we bow (in Islam)". One more contradiction to the Bible. Further comments unnecessary - except: See 2/132c+d above.

011 2/133c: "- - - (the god) of Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac - - -". This was said when Jacob died, according to the Quran (you do not find this in the Bible). At that time Ishmael's descendants already were 3/4 Egyptian (both Ishmael's mother and wife were from Egypt (1.Mos. 20/21)) and they were living in hostility to the descendants of Isaac and Jacob (1.Mos. 25/18). They also were outside the covenant line through Isaac (1.Mos. 20/12). If you know a little about people, how likely is it that Ishmael was mentioned here?. (But Muhammad needed "quotes" like this to connect his new religion to an old one.)

012 2/136c: "- - - the revelation given to us (Muhammad*), and to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes (the 12 Jewish tribes*) and that given to Moses and Jesus, and given to (all) the Prophets (Hadiths mention the number 124ooo prophets during all times and all places!) - - -". The Quran as you see claims that all prophets to all times each has got their copy of the Quran - or to be more correct a copy of the same revered "mother book" in Heaven which the Quran is a copy of according to Islam. It must have been informative for the claimed Inuit prophets in North Canada to read about the blessed shade from the sun and the fruits and camels everyone knew, or for one in the really old England or Amazonas to read about the blessed rain.

Science has found exactly not one trace from neither the claimed prophets, nor the claimed Islamic religion, nor from any of the claimed books, nor from a claimed god like Muhammad's version of the old pagan god Allah - not even a reference. Whereas from the Bible there are more than 40ooo manuscripts, fragments or quotations older than 610 AD - manuscripts only referring to but not quoting the Bible, not included. Worse: Also Islam has found not one proved falsification strengthening their claims - a 110% proof for that there are no falsifications, because if there had been, Islam had found them and screamed and bellowed about them

Believe this Islamic claim whoever wants.

013 2/136h: "- - - the Tribes - - -". A time anomaly. This refers to the 12 Jewish tribes, each founded by one of Jacob's 12 sons. The comments are parallel to f.x. Abraham (2/124a+c) or Jacob (2/132c) - no user of the claimed parallels to the Quran could understand this reference until these tribes came into existence. As it takes some time to grow from a person to a family to a tribe, one may guess that this reference had no meaning for readers/listeners until around 1600 BC at the earliest. For f.x. Noah or Abraham this expression had no meaning.

014 2/140a: "Or do you say that Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the tribes were Jews - - -". As the word "Jew" did not exist at that time (it derives from the name of one of the sons of Jacob and the tribe he founded, the Judah tribe), technically the Quran may be right in this "leading - or rhetoric - question" . But using the wider and quite normal definition of the word: Jews = people belonging to the Jewish religion, there is little doubt that according to the Bible they all were Jews - even Ishmael (but he is outside Yahweh's line, as that one goes via Isaac (his brother) and Jacob (1. Mos. 21/12)), if he lived and believed like his father (like Islam claims he did). It must in case be a bitter truth for Arabs to know they are claiming (as usual no proofs) to be descendants from a Jew(!) (But in its rhetoric way the Quran here contradicts the Bible). For the record: The name "Christians" is even much younger than the word "Jew" - it of course derives from "Christos", the Greek version of "Messiah" = the anointed one. It was coined some decades into "our time". See 2/140b just below.

015 2/140b: "Or do you say that Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians?" Well, no-one say they were Christians - Christianism is a softer religion than the Mosaic (Jewish) one and did not arrive until with Jesus. If we presume that Jesus really was from Yahweh, which both the Bible and the Quran claims (except that the Quran calls the god Allah and claims Allah = Yahweh), one may wonder why the god choose to soften his teaching just then. One possible explanation is that Islam is right on this one point: When times changes there can be adjustments in the one god's teachings to inch it closer to what the god really wants. May be Yahweh saw that the widespread and long "Roman Peace" (nearly 300 years) - Pax Romanum - finally gave a more peaceful and benevolent "edition" of his religion a chance to take hold and survive - grow strong enough to survive in spite of the rougher times which would come. But if this is the explanation, it is highly unlikely and illogical that he later should want to return to a harsh, selfish, and bloody war religion like Islam - far more inhuman, dark and bloody than also the Mosaic one even in the harshest parts of OT.

016 3/67a: “Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian - - -“. He definitely was no Christian, as he lived – if he ever lived - some 1800 – 2000 years too early. But it may be correct to call the forefather of all Jews a Jew. (We know the word did not exist at that time, but it is normal to use the word also for the people who later got the name Jews. The word "Jew" is made from "Judah" - the name of one of the sons (no. 4 according to the Bible - 1. Mos. 29/35) of the Jewish patriarch Jacob - grandson of Abraham. His tribe much later settled south of and round Jerusalem, and when the nation was split after the death of Solomon, they became the main tribe in the country of Judah - hence Judes or Jews - whereas the parts further north became the country of Israel, which originally was a name the patriarch Jacob got from Yahweh, according to the Bible (1. Mos. 32/28).)

017 3/84b: "- - - what (the Quran) has been revealed to us (Muslims*) and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the (12 Jewish*) tribes- - -". One more of the claims that it was the Quran which was given to each and every of the old prophets (see 3/81e above). One more claim showed wrong by science and by Islam by being unable to find the slightest trace of Islam or something similar older than 610 AD. (Islam's claim that the Mosaic - Jewish - religion and culture was a falsified version of Islam does not hold water.)

018 3/146b: “How many of the Prophets fought (in Allah’s way), and with them fought large bands of godly men? But they never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah’s way, nor did they weaken (in will) nor give in. And Allah loves those who are firm and steadfast.” A pep-talk to warriors of all times - never give in, never give up, retreat if you have to, but go on and you will win like the prophets, because Allah will help - - - and sooner or later the lover of religious warriors, Allah, will give you Paradise. Like in the Old Norse pagan religion and other war religions.

As for prophets, Islam maintains that they have existed to all times and all places - Hadith mention the number 124ooo, but even that is just a symbol for uncountable many. (Using the religious time-scale = some 5ooo years up to Muhammad, gives 2 new prophets each and every month for those 5ooo years. Using the scientific time-scale = perhaps 195ooo years for Homo Sapiens, gives one new prophet every 18 months approximately. Believe it if you are able to.). This is not true, because it is not possible to find a single trace of monotheistic prophets (except the few in the Bible) anywhere or any time in any form - history, literature, art, architecture, archeology, or even in folk tales. It is not possible that so many prophets should leave not a single trace - especially the warring ones should leave traces, even if they had no success with spreading the religion.

And not many of the prophets we know about from other sources - mainly the Bible - did actually wage war. This picture becomes even more loop-sided when you remember the Bible mentions there were a number of prophets not named by name, and hardly any of these were leaders of wars - in that case they had been more central and named. (NB: The Bible does not reckon f.x. Saul and David - and not even Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob, not to mention Ishmael - primarily as prophets (Ishmael not as prophet at all). Leaders, but the title prophet hardly is used - for a central person like Abraham in the entire Bible the title prophet is mentioned only a couple of times. Saul, David, Ishmael and a number of others are not reckoned to be prophets at all in the Bible.) The fact that Biblical prophets normally did not wage war, compared to Muhammad's war religion, also is one of the clear indications for that Muhammad was not in the Biblical line of prophets. Another point: The Jewish religion was absolutely not a proselyting one, whereas Islam was and is strongly proselyting - the same teaching? - the same god? Definitely no.

019 From 4/13d: Another aspect of this point is that if the prophets and messengers of the old received copies of the timeless and unchangeable "Mother Book" - and it has to be unchangeable if it is written before man was created and even more so if it has existed since eternity - these copies were perfect foretelling about the things the Quran - one of the copies - tells about which had still not happened when the local prophet received his copy. If f.x. Abraham or Isaac or Jacob had received their copies, they knew very well what was going to happen to Joseph and where to find him. Admittedly some Muslims claim there was one Quran for each time, but that is not possible if the "Mother Book" which it is a copy from, is as old as what Islam and its Muslims claim. Only Muhammad got no foretelling, because there is not one single real foretelling in the Quran about the times after Muhammad and onwards. Both facts are thought provoking.

020 4/23c: "Prohibited for you (Muslims*) (for marriage) are - - - two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time - - -". Jacob, who according to the Quran was a prophet to Allah, was married to the two sisters Leah and Rachel at the same time (1. Mos. 29/22-30). We have never seen any Muslim comment on this.

021 4/160a: "For the iniquity of the Jews We (Allah*) made unlawful for them certain (food) - - - which had been lawful for them - in that they hindered many from Allah's Way - - -". How come? The laws here referred to, are the Laws of Moses, which the Jews got ca. 1235 - 1230 BC, shortly after the exodus from Egypt. Before that they have been slaves in Egypt - no power to hinder many from any religion. And before that they were too few to do so - the group which Jacob took to Egypt counted 70 persons, his daughters-in-law not included, and they did not go proselyting. This accusation simply needs a lot of strong proofs to be believed, because before the Jews received the mentioned law, they simply did not have the power to hinder anyone from believing if someone wanted. Something simply is wrong. Another thing: There is no reference to such a reason in the "Books of Moses" - the only perhaps reliable source about this. As the Quran with all its mistakes, etc. is not from any god, from where did Muhammad get this claim or information?

This "information" simply is not from the Bible, and there is no basis in the Bible for that it can be correct.

022 4/163e: "- - - We (Allah*) sent it (messages by inspiration*) to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the (12 Jewish*) Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and to Solomon - - -". As Muhammad claimed he received his verses from Allah by inspiration, it was essential to "prove" that this was a normal way for prophets to receive information from the god. And NB: He used these claimed Muslim prophets as proofs for that "inspiration" was a normal way of communication. The word "inspiration" is not used anywhere in the Bible in such connections. Also it is nowhere in the Bible mentioned that Ishmael had a close enough connection to Yahweh to be a prophet.

023 5/2h: "- - - Sacred House (Kabah mosque in Mecca*) - - -". The Bible never mentions a sacred place in Arabia, not even in connection to Moses who may be - may be - visited the Arabian Peninsula according to the Quran (Midian/Madyan) is mentioned. well, highly likely Midian was in Sinai, as Mt Sinai and also Mt. Horeb (likely another name for Mt. Sinai - today Jabal Musa, 34 degrees east, 28.5 degrees north. Roughly 70 km north northwest from Sharm-el-Sheik (Sharm el Shaykh) far south in central Sinai). Also Islam confirms that it was here Moses met his god and got the mission to take the Jews out from Egypt. This is far from Madyan in Arabia. (If the Bible's Midian was not in Sudan - there is a very small chance also for this). (That Abraham visited Arabia - and Mecca - just is wishful thinking or psychological strategy on behalf of Muhammad. The Bible gives the routes Abraham travelled, and he never was even close to that peninsula. We also may mention that the Bible tells about what Abraham built, and he never built anything but a few altars made from not chiseled natural stone - not even a small chapel anywhere. Even the grave of his wife Sarah was a cave, not something built. You find all this in 1. Mos. f.x. 12/7, 12/8, 12/18. These are facts Muslims never mention, even though at least their scholars know it - it is not possible to go hunting in the Bible for tit-bits they can cherry-pick, without also seeing the information which tells that the Quran is wrong on many points.)

############Another strong fact: Not one person mentioned in the entire Bible, included Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Solomon, and Jesus, uttered even one word about wanting to visit Mecca or Kabah or even mentioned any of them. Strange if Yahweh and Allah were the same god, and Mecca/Kabah his most holy place on Earth.

As for science, they in their careful language tell from: "There is no reason to believe that Abraham ever visited Mecca", to: "It is highly unlikely Abraham ever was in Mecca

024 5/12c: "- - - We appointed twelve captains among them - - -". Well, Yahweh in one case said that the tribe leaders should lead. But the splitting in 12 tribes was not built on this, but on the 12 sons of Jacob (or to be more exact: Levi's descendants became priests and were split on the other tribes in a way not reckoned as a separate tribe in some connections - though kept apart an counted separately mostly. Then remained 11 of Jacob's sons. But the descendants of Joseph were split in 2 tribes, as his two sons Ephraim and Manasseh each founded a tribe (called half-tribes) = 12 tribes all together if one wants to count this way.) Though often one counted Levi as one and Joseph as one tribe.

025 5/70a: "- - - Children of Israel - - -". This name derives from the new name Jacob got from Yahweh according to the Bible (1. Mos. 32/28). None could understand this before that time - around 1600 - 1800 BC. A time anomaly - see 4/13d below.

026 5/78b: "- - - the Children of Israel - - -". According to the Bible (1. Mos. 32/28) the Jewish patriarch Jacob who may have lived around 1600 - 1800 BC, got the name Israel from Yahweh. The expression "Children of Israel" means the descendants of Jacob = the Jews. In this case a historical anomaly - see 4/13d above.

027 5/78d: "- - - Jesus - - -". The name needs no presentation, but we may mention that when they started to use his year of birth as year 1, they made a small mistake - he really was born ca. 4 - 6 years BC. His mentioning in the Quran in just this case, however, is a time anomaly.

Jesus definitely is a historical person - he according to our sources is mentioned by 4 of the old writers, among them Josephus Flavius, a historian reckoned to be very reliable. They did not write much about him, but he is mentioned. And also by Tacitus, Suetonius, and Plinius the younger

We also add that Jesus is the Greek version of the Jewish name Joshua or Yehoshu'a (which means "Yahweh is salvation") - NT originally was written in Greek, and because of that, the Greek version was used. Concerning the Quran and Muhammad there is a curios fact here: The Arab version of the Hebrew name Joshua is Yushuwa (the spelling may vary a little). Muhammad does not use this name, but the name Isa for Jesus - but Isa is the Arab version of the name Esau (which means "hairy" - very different from Joshua), the brother of the Jewish patriarch Jacob. ####Thus all through the Quran and the Hadiths, Muhammad in reality is talking about Esau, not about Jesus. No god would make such a silly mistake.

028 5/110a "O Jesus the son of Mary!". This is a claimed name you some places find for Jesus in the Quran. The point is to fortify Muhammad's claim that Jesus was not the son of Yahweh (in that case he may be was divine, and in any case clearly was a greater and more central prophet than Muhammad, which Muhammad would not accept).

But officially Jesus was the son of Joseph (his official and formal father - the least you can say about the connection between those two, is that Joseph "de facto" had accepted Jesus as his adopted son). If anyone used a "full name" for him in the very man-dominated Israel, it would be "Jesus son of Joseph" - "Jesus ben Joseph" and not "Jesus ben Mary" ("ben" means "son of" in Hebrew - the same as "bin" in Arab). Or to be quite complete: Jesus is the Greek version of his name. The Hebrew version is Joshua. So to be exact his name was "Joshua ben Joseph".

And to make the picture of Muhammad's problems with Jesus' name complete: Muhammad uses the name Isa for Jesus in the Quran. This is wrong. Isa is the Arab version of Esau (the brother of the Jewish patriarch Jacob). The Arab form for the name Jesus - or Joshua in Hebrew - is Yoshuwa (the spelling may vary a little). Any god had known this - Muhammad obviously not. Who then made the Quran?

Finally: As for Muhammad's never documented claim that Jesus was not the son of Yahweh, we may mention that the name "father" is used is used for Yahweh in this connection at least 204 times in the Bible, and the name "son" for Jesus in the same connection at least 89 times - many of those times by Jesus, a prophet whom also the Quran admits is very reliable.

But an extra point here is that if the Quran and Muhammad claim that Jesus was not the son of Yahweh, like they strongly do to try do to make Muhammad the greatest of prophets, the only alternative is that he was the son of Joseph. Then in a strongly male society like the Hebrew - or the Arab - no son of a married couple would accept to be named after his mother. F.x. Muhammad never was called Muhammad bin Amina (his mother's name was Amina). In this case the only name possible for Jesus - and the only name one honestly could use in the old Israel - was Joshua(Jesus) ben Joseph. Any god had known - but Muhammad needed a twist to be able to claim he himself was the greatest.

029 6/89b: "These were the men (the ones mentioned in verses 6/83 through 6/87*) to whom We (Allah*) gave the Book". The Bible does not mention any book connected to f.x. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Ishmael, let alone something like OT or the Quran which is meant here - this also according to science, as no trace of anything similar to the Quran older than 610 AD (when Muhammad started his mission) has ever been found - compared to some 45ooo relevant scriptures and fragments + other traces older than 610 AD from the Bible).

Another point is that no god ever made a book of a quality like the Quran with all its mistakes, etc.

And yet another point is that nomads of those times hardly knew how to read. It is not impossible that Joseph, son of Jacob, learnt how to read and write in Egypt, but but for him it is likely that the first of the central persons in the Bible who knew how to read and write, was Moses.

030 7/105d: One small "en passent" here as Muslims do not like the timing of the Exodus, and as M. Yusuf Ali makes a comment (in A1073 to this verse) "(The Jews stayed in Egypt*) perhaps two to four centuries. (Renan allows only one century).": The Bible is very clear on how long time the Jews spent in Egypt: 430 Years, and there was no reason for the Jews to falsify this number, in addition to that in spite of Islam's claims no falsification is known in the Bible, mistakes yes, falsifications no (again: Guess if Islam had screamed about it if even one documented case had been found!). But as Ramses II did not drown, Islam needs to use an earlier pharaoh where one does not know how he died - f.x. Thothmes I (ca. 1540 BC) is mentioned. But Jacob - the patriarch who took the Jews to Egypt lived around 1600 - 1800 BC (if he is not fiction), or to be exact: Abraham lived - if he is not fiction - around 2ooo - 1800 BC. Jacob was his grandson, and as Abraham was old when he got Isaac (the father of Jacob) it is realistic to say Jacob lived around 1600 - 1800. Then it is not possible to use earlier pharaohs than Ramses II if the Jews stayed 430 years. A little twist is necessary in case - and voila!: Islam says (the mentioned YA comment 1073): "- - - Israel stayed there perhaps two to four centuries." Problem solved - without any source for the estimate given. May be the 430 years in the Bible is a falsification? (but in case why?) - the standard and easy "explanation" Muhammad always used.

And there is another point here you never hear Muslims mention: According to the Bible (1. Mos. 46/27) the Jews were 80 - 90 (70 + the wives of Jacob's sons) when they settled in Egypt. The same book mentions 2 - 3 places that when they left Egypt, they were 600ooo men = something like 2.ooo.ooo included women and children. It at least theoretically is quite possible for say 80 to become 2.ooo.ooo in 430 years. But it is in no way possible in 200 or 300 years (and 100 years is a joke), and even 400 may be unlikely - for a geometric curve like this is, one extra generation makes a big difference. Also this makes an exodus and a pharaoh around 1500 - 1600 BC like Islam likes to claim to get rid of Ramses II, impossible.

(It also would be likely that quite a number of other slaves claimed they were Jews here, to get out from bondage.)

There are some scientists, though, who think Exodus happened a little later, under the son of Ramses II, Merneptah. But that in case as said means later and not before - and under another pharaoh we know did not drown.

031 7/134d: "- - - the Children of Israel - - -". Israel was the new name the Jewish patriarch Jacob got from Yahweh (1. Mos. 32/28). The Children of Israel means his descendants = the Jews.

032 7/143c: “- - - I (Moses) am the first to believe.” This one is similar to f.x. 6/14, except here it is Moses instead of Muhammad. But it contradicts the Quran's telling that f.x. Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, Joseph, Hud, Salih, Shu'ayb and others believed Muslims before him. And Moses and all the others were making a lie out of Muhammad’s saying that he – Muhammad – was the first. A number of contradictions. (2/127-133, 3/67, 6/14, 6/163, 26/51). Muslims tell that these contradictions are not contradictions, because it is meant the first of a group, a nation, or something – but that is not what the Quran says, and it also does not explain all cases.

Another point is that according to the Bible, the god of Moses was Yahweh, not Allah. And as nobody has ever found any traces neither of a god Like Allah, nor a religion like Islam, nor a book similar to the Quran older than 610 AD when Mohammad started his mission, it is likely the Bible is right.

033 From 7/157e: The Jews after a fashion reckoned the Edomites to be (distant) relatives (Edomites were descendants from Esau, the brother of Jacob, the last of the three patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who started the real(?) history of Israel) – and thus included in a larger, but defined and closed group. In contrast they did not reckon Ishmaelite as relatives.

034 From 7/157e: 1. Mos. *25/18: Ishmael's sons settled "in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur. And they lived in hostility toward all their brothers." This may be meant literally - they quarreled among themselves - or figuratively that they quarreled with the descendants of their father's 7 half brothers, included Isaac's sons Esau (also called Edom) and Jacob (later called Israel). In the last case it is within a closed group: The near family.

035 From 7/157e: 4. Mos. 20/3: "- - - when our brothers - - -". A closed group: The Jews. Similar words to 1. Mos. 18/15 and 18/18.

07. 20/14 Moses talking to the Edomites on behalf of the Jews. The Edomites were the descendants of Esau (also called Edom), the brother of Jacob and son of Isaac, and the Jews reckoned them to be relatives, though distant ones - Moses here used the word to remind the Edomites of that relationship. Also here a closed group: Recognized relatives. As Esau was the son of Isaac, he also was inside the pact Yahweh had made with Abraham - "because it is through Isaac your (Abraham's*) offspring will be reckoned", 1. Mos. 21/12. And also notice that as the Edomites did not belong to the Jews, they are named to notify this.

036 From 7/157e: In Obadiah, verse 9 Yahweh says: “Your warriors, O Teman, will be terrified and in Esau’s mountains (Edom*) will be cut down in slaughter because of your violence against your brother Jacob” (Esau was the brother of the patriarch Jacob). Islam has one they can say was the brother of Isaac (Ishmael), but none who was the brother of Jacob. (Ishmael was not Jacob's brother, but his uncle) – and besides if Teman was Islam, the Muslims had been dead by now –“cut down in slaughter”.

037 7/160a: “We divided them (the people of Moses*) into twelve Tribes or nations.” Wrong: They consisted of 12 brothers (the 12 sons of Jacob), then 12 families, then 12 tribes already since after Jacob (some 430 years earlier according to the Bible). And even this is wrong, because Joseph founded 2 tribes: Manasseh and Ephraim (though often called half-tribes). Israel thus consisted of 11 tribes and 2 half-tribes. When the number 12 often is used, the reason may as well be the fact that the Levi tribe was split up and lived together with the other tribes as priests, or that Manasseh and Ephraim were half-tribes and lumped together. (Jesus by the way was from the Judah tribe.)

**038 10/93a: "- - - the Children of Israel - - -". A time anomaly - see 4/13 d above - for anyone living before the Jewish patriarch Jacob was renamed Israel by Yahweh (1. Mos. 32/28).

039 11/71d: "- - - We (Allah*) gave her (Sarah, the wife of Abraham*) the glad tidings of Isaac, and after him, Jacob". This is one of at least two places in the Quran where it can be understood like Muhammad believed that both Isaac and Jacob were the sons of Abraham (Jacob in reality was the son of Isaac), and you will meet persons claiming this is what the Quran says - whereas Muslims in the light of later knowledge denies this. We leave the point there - there are so many wrong points in the Quran, that it is not worth the time to use effort on a point which may be or may be not is wrong.

040 12/5a: "Said (the father (Jacob*)): 'My dear little son (Joseph by then was 17 - 1. Mos. 37/2)! Relate not thy vision (dream in the Bible - see 12/4b just above*) to thy brothers - - -". According to the Bible Joseph first told his brothers, and then his father only afterwards (1. Mos. 37/9 and 1. Mos. 37/6-7, + 1. Mos. 37/10). Also a time anomaly.

041 12/5b: "- - - for Satan is to man an avowed enemy!". The Bible does not mention such words from Jacob.

042 12/7c: "- - - Joseph and his brethren - - -". Benjamin was Joseph's only full brother - both sons of Rachel, Jacob's favorite wife. The other 10 had different mothers (Rachel's sister, Leah, was the mother of Reuben, Simon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, and Zebulon - Bilha (slave of Rachel) of Dan and Naphtali - Zilpah (slave of Leah) of Gad and Asher. 81. Mos. 35/23-26.)) Also a time anomaly.

043 12/8a: "They (Joseph's half brothers*) said: "Truly Joseph and his brother (Benjamin*) are loved more by our father (Jacob*) - - -". A number of time anomalies. See 4/13d above.

044 12/8b: "They (Joseph's brothers - here except Benjamin*) said: "Truly Joseph and his brother (Benjamin*) are loved more by our father (Jacob*) - - -". How could this end up in the claimed "Mother Book" (of which the Quran is a copy according to Muhammad) billions of years before it was said or happened? One more of the many texts or quotes in the Quran which could not have been reliably written into the claimed "Mother Book" (13/39b, 43/4b+c, 85/21-22) in Heaven (of which the Quran is claimed to be a copy) eons ago, unless predestination was and is 100% like the Quran claims many places (if you look, you will find more cases than we mention - we only mention some of the obvious ones). If man has free will - even partly only (an expression some Muslims use to flee from the problem of full predestination contra free will for man (and also contra that there is no meaning in praying to Allah for help, if everything already is predestined in accordance with a plan "nobody and nothing can change" - a problem which Muslims seldom mention), and an expression no Muslim we have met has ever defined) - and can change his mind, full and reliable clairvoyance about the future, not to mention the distant future, is impossible even for a god, as the man always could/can change his mind or his words once more, in spite of Islam's claims. There are at least 5 reasons - at least 3 of them unavoidable - for this:

  1. When something is changed, automatically the future is changed.
  2. The laws of chaos will be at work and change things, if even a tiny part is made different. And multiply even a tiny change with some billion people through the centuries, and many and also big things will be changed.
  3. The displacement of a happening - f.x. the death of a warrior in battle - of only one yard or one minute may or even will change the future forever (that yard or minute f.x. may mean that the warrior killed - or not killed - an opponent). The laws of chaos and the "Butterfly Effect" and the "Domino Effect" kick in.

  4. The so-called "Butterfly Effect"; "a butterfly flapping its wing in Brazil may cause a storm in China later on" or "a small bump may overturn a big load".
  5. The so-called "Domino Effect": Any change will cause this and this to change, which will cause this and this to change, which will cause this and this to change - - - and so on forever. Also each cause may cause one or more or many changes. And: The Butterfly Effect only may happen, whereas the Domino Effect is unavoidable and inexorable - a main reason why if you in a battle is killed 5 meters from or 5 minutes later than where and when Allah has predestined - not to mention if you die when tilling your fields 50 miles off - unavoidably the entire future of the world is changed. Perhaps not much changed, but like said; multiply it with many billion people through the centuries, and the world is totally changed. And full clairvoyance of course totally impossible - except in occultism, mysticism, made up legends, and in fairy tales.

 

This that Allah predestines everything like the Quran claims and states many places, is an essential point, because besides totally removing the free will of man (in spite of the Quran's claims of such free will, or some Muslims' adjusted "partly free will for man" - to adjust the meanings where the texts in the Quran are wrong, is typical for Islam and its Muslims) - it also removes the moral behind Allah's punishing (and rewarding) persons for what they say and do - Allah cannot reward or punish people for things he himself has forced them to say or do, and still expect to be believed when he (Muhammad?) claims to be a good or benevolent or moral or just god. Also see 2/51b and 3/24a above.

And as mentioned above, full predestination also makes prayers to Allah meaningless, as everything already is predestined according to Allah's Plan - a Plan which no prayer ("nobody and nothing") can change.

045 12/8c: "Joseph and his brother - - -." This refers to Benjamin, Joseph's only full brother and the youngest one of Jacob's sons. They were the 2 sons of Rachel - Jacob's favorite wife.

046 12/9b: "- - - Joseph - - - his father (Jacob*) - - -". 2 time anomalies. See 4/13d above.

047 12/11b: "They (Joseph's half-brothers*) said: 'O our father (Jacob*)! - - -". See 12/8b above.

048 12/11-12: "They (Joseph's half-brothers*) said: 'O our father (Jacob*)! Why dost you not trust us with Joseph - seeing we are indeed his well-wishers? Send him with us tomorrow - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which tells Jacob - not understanding how much his other sons disliked Joseph - sent Joseph to check if everything was ok with his brothers and the animals. (1. Mos. 37/13-14). Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

049 12/15a: "So they (Joseph's half-brothers*) took him (Joseph*) away - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, according to which Jacob sent him alone to find his brothers - see 12/11-12 above. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

050 12/17b: "They (Joseph's half-brothers*) said: "O our father (Jacob*)! We went racing - - -". See 12/8b above.

051 12/63b: "- - - they (Joseph's half-brothers*) said: "O our father (Jacob*) - - -". These words are not from the Bible.

052 12/64b: "- - - Allah - - -". According to the Bible Jacob's god was Yahweh, not Allah.

053 12/65c: "They (Joseph's half-brothers*) said: 'O our father (Jacob*)! - - -". See 12/43b above.

054 12/66e: "- - - Allah - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which tells that Jacob's god was Yahweh, not Allah. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But like we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

055 12/67c: "- - - Allah - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which tells that Jacob's god was Yahweh, not Allah. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

056 12/67e: "- - - in Him (here intended to be Allah*) I (Jacob*) put my trust - - -". Risky if he does not exist, or if he belongs to the dark forces and just have cheated people into a false religion.

057 12/68b: "- - - when they (Joseph's half-brothers) entered in the manner their father (Jacob*) had enjoined - - -". See 12/43b above.

058 12/81b: "(Reuben? - see 12/80c above - continued:) 'Turn ye (the rest of the brothers*) back to your father (Jacob*) and say - - -". See 12/80b above.

059 12/83a: "Jacob said - - -". According to the Bible the brothers made 2 trips to Egypt before Jacob emigrated there. In the Quran there seems to be 3 trips: 1. trip arrives in 12/58, home 12/63. 2. trip arrives in 12/69, home in 12/83 to tell Jacob that Benjamin was a thief. 3. trip arrives in 12/88, home in 12/96-97. Contradiction and not a small one really, as the whole story gets a mix-up.

060 12/83c: "- - - may be Allah will bring them (Joseph and Benjamin*) back to me (Jacob*) - - -". The Quran some places makes it clear that Jacob did not believe Joseph was dead - a prophet like Jacob could not be wrong. In the Bible it is clear Jacob believed Joseph was dead (1. Mos. 42/38 - Jacob says Benjamin is the only son of Rachel left). (Just for the record: When 1.Mos. 43/14 says "your other brother and Benjamin", it is meant Simeon and Benjamin.)

061 12/84a: "- - he (Jacob*) turned away from them (his sons*) - - -". Time anomalies.

062 12/84b: “And his (Jacob’s*) eyes became white with sorrow - - -“. Eyes cannot become white (and more or less blind) from sorrow. That happens because of illness or physical malfunction in the eye – sometimes related to age. Any god had known – Muhammad perhaps not. Then who made the Quran?

063 12/86a: "He (Jacob*) said - - -". A time anomaly.

064 12/86b: "- - - Allah - - -". But according to the Bible the god involved was Yahweh, not Allah.

065 12/87a: Jacob said: “O my sons! Go ye (to Egypt*) and enquire about Joseph and his brother - - -". Jacob stayed at home (in Canaan), and his sons vent to Egypt (the 3. trip). But the fact (both according to the Bible and to the Quran) that Jacob stayed at home, is contradicted by:

  • 00a 12/94-95: “When the Caravan left (Egypt), their father said: ‘I do indeed scent the presence of Joseph: nay, think me not a dotard’. They (his sons*) said: ‘By Allah! Truly thou art in thine old wandering mind.’”
  • How could Jacob smell the scent and how could he talk to his sons when they were hundreds of kilometers away?

    066 12/87b: Jacob said: “O my sons! Go ye (to Egypt*) and enquire about Joseph and his brother - - -". It is clear from some places in the Quran that Jacob did not believe Joseph was dead. But this is contradicted by the Bible, which says he believed he was dead (1. Mos. 42/38). Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    067 12/87f: "- - - Allah - - -". Contradicted by the Bible which tells that Jacob's god was Yahweh, not Allah. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    068 12/87h: "- - - faith". = Islam. This word always means Islam when the Quran talks about religion. Though it is highly unlikely in the extreme that Jacob was a Muslim, no matter what Muslims and the Quran claims - and for more reasons than one.

    069 12/88c: "- - - we (the brothers*) have (now) brought but scanty capital - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which says Jacob told them to bring a double amount of silver on their second trip (1. Mos. 43/12-15). Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    070 12/94b “When the Caravan left (Egypt), their father (Jacob*) said (to his sons?*) - - -“. But 12/87 says: “O my (Jacob’s*) sons! Go ye (to Egypt*) and enquire about Joseph and his brother - - -“. Jacob simply did not come along to Egypt at that trip – he stayed at home. Thus Jacob could not smell something they or the caravan were carrying. A mistake and a contradiction of the real(?) situation. (This also is clear from 12/96: “When the bearer of the good news came (to Jacob’s home*) - - -.”) Jacob could say nothing to his sons at least until they were back home with him, but the first sentence of 12/95 may refer to his sons.

    071 12/94-95a: "When the caravan left (Egypt), their father said: 'I do indeed scent the presence of Joseph - - -." Contradicted by the Quran telling Jacob stayed at home and impossibly could scent anything in the caravan of his sons travelling from Egypt. See 12/87a and 12/94 above. Some Muslims claim Jacob knew by some sort of ESP (Extrasensory Perception) - f.x YA1770. Such comments need no comments.

    072 12/94-95b: "When the caravan left (Egypt), their father said: 'I do indeed scent the presence of Joseph - - -." This tale is not from the Bible. From where did Muhammad get it?

    073 12/95a: “They (Jacob’s sons) said (= answered when the caravan left Egypt! - Jacob was in Canaan, hundreds of miles/km away!*): ‘By Allah (?*)! Truly thou art in thine old wandering mind.’” See 12/94 above.

    074 12/95c: "They (Jacob's people*) said: 'By Allah! - - -". See 12/80b above.

    075 12/95d: "They (Jacob's people*) said: 'By Allah! - - -". They were swearing by Allah - expressions starting by "by" in the Quran, normally are oaths.

    076 12/95e: "- - - Allah - - -". Just for the record, we repeat that according to the Bible, the god of Jacob was Yahweh, not Allah. Not from the Bible.

    077 12/96a: "When the bearer of the good news came (to Jacob's home in Canaan*) - - -". Only now Jacob could get any news - see 12/94 above which this refers to.

    078 12/96b: "- - - he (Jacob*) forthwith regained clear sight". No-one loses his eyesight - partly or totally - from sorrow. And no blind - partly or totally - regains his eyesight because a sorrow disappears. Also this part of the tale is not from the Bible.

    079 12/98b: "Soon I (Jacob*) will ask my Lord (here indicated to be Allah*) for forgiveness for you". Why - if Allah predestines everything, the brothers only did what Allah forced them to do, and is there then a reason for asking for forgiveness? - and besides: If Allah has predestined everything according to a plan nobody and nothing can change, like the Quran states many places, why spend time and effort on prayers, when they can change nothing?

    As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are taught that a question or problem can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not, many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. In cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1) Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other.)

    As for forgiving from Allah: See 2/187d above.

    080 12/99a: Jacob and his entire household then went to Egypt to Joseph. All together they were 70 persons + the wives of his sons according to the Bible (1. Mos. 46/27). And their descendants stayed there for 430 years according to very clear statements in the Bible - until ca. 1235 BC according to science. If these two numbers are correct, this means that Jacob went to Egypt around 1665 BC

    081 12/99c: “- - - he (Joseph*) provided a home for his parents - - -“. Not possible, as his mother (Rachel) died already when Benjamin was born – he could provide a home only for his father. (Islam explains or “explains” this with claiming that he reckoned the sister of his mother (Leah - also wife of Jacob) to be his mother, but there is nothing neither in the Quran nor in the Bible saying so. But then it is quite normal for Islam to make claims without facts.) One more small detail here: Abraham first married Leah, and later her sister Rachel. But Muslims cannot be married to 2 sisters at the same time, which Jacob was for a long time. How then could Abraham be a good and devoted Muslim? - the "mother book" in Heaven they claim he, too, got a copy and the laws from, had not changed.

    082 12/99d: (A12/92 – in 2008 edition A12/96): “(Joseph*) provided a home for his parents - - -.” What does this mean? The Bible tells and the Quran does not object to that his mother Rachel died in childbirth when Benjamin was born, and he only had his father Jacob. Muslims “may", therefore, assume that the “mother” implied in the term “parents” was another of Jacob’s wives - - -.” It is not uncommon to call a foster mother for “mother”. In some cultures it even is common to use the words “mother” and “father” as a respectful title when speaking with old people. But a pet name, a respectful name/title, does not make someone your parent. The very least that should have been done by Allah if he claimed to use a language “clear and easy to understand” was to say “his father and step-mother”. (The likely explanation is that Muhammad when he told this, forgot or did not know that Joseph’s mother was dead).

    083 12/99e: "- - - Allah". As mentioned before, according to the Bible Jacob's and Joseph's god was Yahweh, not Allah.

    084 12/100a: (A12/95 – in 2008 edition A12/98, A12/99): “- - - and they Jacob and his family*) fell down in prostration, (all) before him (Joseph*) - - -.” Here is a big conundrum inside a riddle surrounded by a puzzle for Islam. A pious prophet like Jacob impossibly could prostrate himself before a human. And an as pious prophet like Joseph impossibly could have accepted it. Something has to be wrong in the text. This even though the Arab text “wa-kharru lahu sudjdjadah” literally means “- - - and they fell down before him in (alternatively “like in”) prostration (or “praying to him” according to the Swedish copy)”. Islam has no good explanations that we have found. According to ‘Abd Allah ibn ‘Abbas the “him” in “before him” must refer to Allah – which it most clearly does not do. Razi explains that Joseph’s dream was not fully fulfilled, etc. Actually here the text is very clear – and the only thing Muslim scholars agree on, is that the literal meaning must be wrong, and this without having a good alternative meaning.

    085 12/100c: “- - - and they Jacob and his family*) fell down in prostration, (all) before him (Joseph*) - - -.” This or something similar is not to be found in the Bible.

    086 19/49a: "- - - We (Allah*) bestowed on him (Abraham*) Isaac and Jacob - - -". Many think that this early (614 - 615 AD) Muhammad believed that Isaac and Jacob were the sons of Abraham. Only Isaac was - Jacob was the son of Isaac.

    #087 19/49b: "- - - We (Allah*) bestowed on him (Abraham*) Isaac and Jacob - - -". Abraham got the son Isaac with his wife Sarah. It is strange that in 614 - 615 AD the Quran does not mention his son with Sarah's slave Hagar - Ishmael. Had Muhammad not yet got the idea of claiming ancestry from Abraham (via Ishmael?) - surah 19 is from 614-615 AD = early in Muhammad's preaching. We may also mention that 1. Mos. 25/1-2 and also 1. Chron. 1/32 says that Abraham took another wife/concubine and had 6 sons with her: "The sons born to Keturah, Abraham's concubine: Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah". Not mentioned in the Quran. Had Muhammad claimed ancestry via one of these, his claim had been stronger, because little is said about where they ended. But most likely he never knew about these sons of Abraham. (To claim to be descendants via an Ishmael living in Mecca, is hopeless if the stories in the Bible are true - and at the time when they were written down, there was no reason for the Jews not to be honest about this - because the place where it is told Abraham left Hagar (archeology may indicate that Mecca was founded in the 4. century AD), is some 1200 km from the dry, empty desert valley where Mecca later came (1. Mos. 20/14), and the place it tells Ishmael settled is even a little further off (1. Mos. 25/18). And the track form those places to the nowhere, empty, narrow desert valley of later Mecca was for large parts through harsh and forbidding hot desert - - - and without any attractions giving the least reason to go there.

    088 19/49c: "- - - each of them (Isaac and Jacob We (Allah*) made a prophet". In the Bible they are 2 of the 3 patriarchs of the Jews (Abraham was the first), but they are not named prophets in the Bible.

    089 21/32d: "- - - they (non-Muslims*) turn away from the Signs (of Allah*) which all these things (point to)!" When someone uses logically invalid arguments - like claiming not proved "signs" are indication or proof for a god - the logical reaction is to be skeptical. After all the use of false and/or invalid arguments is the hallmark of the cheat and the swindler, and Muhammad on top of this believed in al-Taqiyya (the lawful lie), Kitman (the lawful half-truth), in breaking promises and words - even sworn ones - if that gave better results, and in deceit ("War is deceit") - - - and he wanted power and riches for bribes for more power - and women (like many false prophets in and outside the Bible, but few of the real ones in the OT. Here beware that men like David and Solomon are not reckoned among prophets in the Bible. This is one more difference between Muhammad and the Biblical prophets - not one of them had a harem of any size. Even if you include men like Abraham and Jacob, they had maximum 1-2 wives and 1-2 concubines if any at all. Abraham had Sarah, Kethura (1. Mos. 25/1 - but only after Sarah was dead) and Sarah's slave Hagar, Jacob had Leah and Rachel plus the two slaves Bilhah and Zilpath (1. Mos. 35/23-26). Muhammad had 36 we know by name, included his 11 long time wives and 2 concubines/slave women - the 16 short time wives and the 7 where it is unclear if he was married to them or not, and thus if sex was a sin or not - a Muslim is only permitted to have sex with his wives and his slave women - are normally not mentioned by Muslims. That he in addition raked at least two women Rayhana bint Amr and Safiyya bint Huayay - also normally is not mentioned by Muslims).

    090 21/72b: "- - - (a grandson) - - -". This seems to be inserted by the translator. In that case in the original Arab text the sentence may easily be understood like Abraham got two sons: Isaac and Jacob. Also beware that according to the Bible "Abraham took another wife (after Sarah's death*), whose name was Keturah. She bore him the sons Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shush". (1. Mos. 25/1-2). This - and these sons - is not mentioned in the Quran.

    091 23/28a: "Praise be to Allah - - -". The Bible disagrees here, and wants it to be Yahweh. More essential: Neither science nor Islam has ever found any trace about Allah older than 610 AD. Noah - if he ever existed - may have lived 3ooo-6ooo BC. (You will find exact years some places - do not believe the rest of what those sources tell you, too. Exact years for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob or anything older in the religions, are bluffs).

    092 26/197b: "- - - the Children of Israel - - -". Literally the children of the patriarch Jacob.

    093 28/27a: "I (Jethro*) intend to wed one of these my daughters to thee, on condition that you serve me for eight years - - -". This is not from the Bible (though the Bible tells he married one of the 7 daughters of Jethro, Zipporah. (2. Mos. 2/21). Maybe a mix up with Jacob's work for 7 years for each of his wives Leah and Rachel (1. Mos. 29/16-28).

    Jethro also must have been busy getting rid of his daughters, if he the very first day he met a roaming vagabond, told the stranger that he intended to marry a daughter to him.

    094 37/113b: "We (in the Quran claimed to be Allah*) blessed him (Abram/Abraham*) and Isaac - - -". Abram/Abraham according to the Bible (and the Quran) became the one who started the Jewish people - through Isaac and Isaac's son Jacob. Ishmael and his children settle on the border of Egypt (1. Mos. 25/18) and mainly disappears from the story, except that Muhammad some 2500 years later claims they settled in Mecca and were the forefathers of the in reality mixed up peoples (proved also by modern DNA) living in Arabia, later named Arabs.

    095 38/45b: "- - - Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, possessors of Power and Vision." Visions perhaps, but the Bible never tells any of them had supernatural powers like here is indicated (Abraham is once or twice called a prophet, though, but this was not a central part of his life as told in the Bible).

    096 38/46b: "- - - the company of the Elect and the Good". = Good Muslims. If you believe this about the Jewish patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who here are referred to, it is up to you.

    097 40/24b: "- - - Pharaoh - - -". According to science (f.x. Encyclopedia Britannica) Exodus happened around 1235 B.C. (if it is not fiction) under Pharaoh Ramses II. Now Ramses II likely was the greatest pharaoh ever, and science knows much about him - among other things that he did not drown, in spite of that both the Bible and the Quran says so. But the Bible is written by humans, and humans can have mistaken one of Ramses II's generals or one of his 67(?) sons for the pharaoh. This explanation is not possible for the Quran which is claimed to come from a god - no omniscient god makes mistakes. Because of this Islam tries to claim it happened earlier - sometimes as early as 1500 BC or even a bit earlier - under less known pharaohs whom we do not know if may have drowned or not. That this also collides with other information about Exodus, does not matter very much - it is quite normal for Muslims to find "explanations" which seemingly give the answer they want, and overlook - or "overlook" - other facts which goes against their "explanation" or even makes it impossible. (In this case f.x. the 70 - 80 of Jacob's family who settled in Egypt around 1665(?) BC, impossibly could have multiplied to the number which according to the Bible left Egypt at Exodus in less than some 400+ years (430 according to the Bible). Something Muslim scholars know, but never mention.)

    098 40/34a: "- - - there came Joseph in times gone by - - -". If we presume that science has the time for Exodus correct, it happened around 1235 BC (according to f.x. Encyclopedia Britannica). If we further presume that the Bible is correct when it says the Jews stayed in Egypt for 430 years - and there were no reasons for the original writers of those scriptures to falsify that number, and neither have we seen strong protests about it from serious scientists - Jacob and his family emigrated to Egypt sometime around 1665 BC. If we then add some years, Joseph may have been taken to Egypt sometime around 1680 BC (if it is a true story). This means during the Hyksos Dynasty, which reigned from some time in the 18th century BC (they seem to have taken over the power slowly - in contradiction to what Muslims normally say, but here they are excused, because also science believed so until reasonably lately), but did not gain great power until around 1720 BC it seems. The end of their reign is better known and here Muslim sources like to say they reigned until around 1580 BC - the earlier exit, the earlier they can claim the Jews left Egypt. But the two last Hyksos pharaohs were Apopis (ca. 1580 - 1540 BC) and Khamudi (ca. 1540 - 1530 BC). (Muslims like to claim the Hyksos were Arabs. There are no real arguments for that, except they likely were invaders who came via Sinai (perhaps from Syria?), but honor for Arabs is honor for Arabs - - - but that is another story. But we may add that you meet Muslims claiming the name Hyksos derives from a word meaning shepherd rulers - indicating they originally were nomads and thus surely Arabs (Muslims often are good at short-circuited logic and invalid logical jumps - the Hyksos could be Arabs, but far from "surely"). But this is a wrong translation of the original word/name. The correct translation means "foreign rulers" - they after all were not original Egyptians.)

    The end of Khamudi's reign - ca. 1530 BC - perhaps is what the Bible means when it says: "Then a new king, who did not know about Joseph, came to power over Egypt". (2. Mos. 1/8).

    099 44/30b: "- - - the Children of Israel - - -". Literally "the children of the Jewish patriarch Jacob" (who was renamed Israel by Yahweh in the disguise as a man - 1. Mos. 32/28). Here a time anomaly.

    100 45/16b: "- - - the Children of Israel - - -". The Jews, but literally the children of the Jewish patriarch Jacob, who was renamed Israel.

    101 46/10e: "- - - Children of Israel - - -". Jews - literally children of the Jewish patriarch Jacob, who was renamed Israel by Yahweh. A time anomaly.

    102 57/27a: "- - - Jesus, the son of Mary - - -". This is what Muhammad called Jesus - "Isa bin Maryam" in Arab. But it is a wrong name, as his official father was Joseph, and Jesus' name thus Jesus bin Joseph - or Jesus ben Joseph in Hebrew.

    ##And to make the picture of Muhammad's problems with Jesus' name more complete: Muhammad uses the name Isa for Jesus in the Quran. This is wrong. Isa is the Arab version of Esau (the brother of the Jewish patriarch Jacob). The Arab form for the name Jesus - or Joshua in Hebrew - is Yoshuwa (the spelling may vary a little). Any god had known this - Muhammad obviously not. Who then made the Quran? See also 5/110a above.

    103 61/6c: "- - - Children of Israel - - -". Literally "Children of Jacob" - the Jewish patriarch who was renamed Israel by Yahweh (1. Mos. 32/28).

    104 62/6a: "- - - Judaism - - -". A time anomaly. We may mention that the name derives from the name Judah, one of the 12 sons of the Jewish patriarch Jacob (Jacob was renamed Israel by Yahweh according to the Bible (1.Mos. 32/28)). It became the name of the tribe descending from him, and later the name of the southern country of the Jews (the northern one was called Israel), and finally the name Jews derives from i comments/introductions).

    104 + 3443 = 3547 comments (+ basic comments/introductions).


     

    131.   JAFAR IBN ABU TALIB

    Brother of Ali ibn abu Talib. Early follower of Muhammad. Emigrated to Ethiopia, but returned later. Was one of the leaders for the unsuccessful attack on the East Roman Empire in 629 AD, and was killed in that battle.

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    132.   abu JAHL

    One of the mightiest leaders of the Quraysh tribe, and one of the strongest opponents of Muhammad. Executed/murdered just after the Battle of Badr.

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    133.   JETHRO - THE FATHER-IN-LAW OF MOSES

    Jethro according to the Bible was the father-in-law of Moses. Muslims sometimes claim Jethro was identical to the Arab claimed prophet Shu'ayb, but this is impossible, if for no other reason than because there were centuries between them (if they are not fictions), so that the claim is physically and chronologically impossible.

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    001 7/85d: "To the Madyan people we (Allah*) sent Shu'ayb - - -". Shu'ayb is the third of the claimed three Arab prophets of the old according to the Quran - a claimed prophet with whom Muhammad makes yet another parallel to his own position in Mecca: What Muhammad experienced there, was indicated to be what prophets normally experienced - no reason for his few followers to be depressed even if the majority of the people did not accept his teachings. Also Shu'ayb may or may not be from folklore. Islam likes to claim he was identical with the father-in-law of Moses, Jethro (in 2. Mos. 2/18, and 4. Mos. 10/29 also called Hobab). There is no rational reason for believing this. Also YA in his comment to this, YA1054, says: "His identification with Jethro, the father-in-law of Moses, has no warrant, and I reject it." The Quran f.x. tells Shu'ayb was 4. generation (= ca. 100 - 120 years) after Abraham, but there were some 500 years between Abraham and Moses (if they ever lived), which in case also makes the claim that Shu’ayb was identical to Jethro impossible.

    002 11/84d: "- - - Shu'ayb - - -". To place the special Arab claimed prophets chronologically, it seems that Islam claims the succession was this (YA1064): Noah (not Arab prophet, though*), Hud, Salih, Abraham (not Arab), (Lot/Lut (not Arab), and Shu'ayb. Shu'ayb is said to be 4 generations after Lot, though we do not find this specified in the Quran, which in case means also he was before Moses around 1375 - 1335 BC. Lot of course was a contemporary of Abraham - his nephew. Abraham lived - if he is not fiction - ca. 1800-2000 BC according to science, which means that Shu'ayb (if not fiction) lived about one century later or a bit more, BC. This makes impossible the Muslim claim that Shu’ayb was identical to the father-in-law of Moses, Jethro. Science tells that if the Exodus ever took place, it happened ca. 1235 BC, and if the Bible is correct Moses then was 80 years, which means he lived from ca.1315 BC to ca. 1195 BC (he became 120 years according to the Bible). There in case are some 300 - 500 years between Shu'ayb and Moses (and Jethro).

    1. Adam (and Eve) - unclear when.
    2. Noah - unclear when, likely 3ooo - 4ooo BC.
    3. Hud - unknown when, but the first of the 3 claimed Arab prophets of the old. Long before Moses.
    4. Salih - unknown when. Well before Moses.
    5. Abraham and Lot - around 2ooo - 1800 BC according to science.

    6. Shu'ayb - 4 generations (some 120 years) after Lot = roughly around 1700 BC. The last one of the 3 claimed Arab prophets of the old.
    7. Moses - Exodus according to science was around 1335 BC, which means he was in Midian ca. 1375 to 1335 BC. If he was 80 when Exodus started and lived 40 years more like the Bible says, he lived from ca. 1315 BC to ca. 1195 BC.

     

    All prophets told about in the Quran, had experiences like Muhammad's. Hardly a coincidence - it "told" his followers and others that Muhammad's problems were "normal" for prophets, and thus that he was a normal prophet (true or not true).

    But a serious problem here is that the information this time line is built on, do not fit the few known facts (another problem is that when you search Internet for facts about Hud/'Ad, Salih/Thamud, Shu'ayb/Madyan/People of the Wood the articles are so dominated by the intention to make the claims in the Quran sound correct, that it is difficult to see what are really facts and what are "adjusted facts" - adjusted by wishful thinking). What seems to be facts, are that if the 'Ad people ever existed, they lived in an area around Ubar in the southeast of the Arab peninsula (somewhere near where Saudi Arabia, Oman, and Yemen meet today). When is unclear, but before the Thamud. We have found no reliable mentioning of them in reliable history.

    The Thamud is said to have lived in al-Hirj, a mountainous area very roughly halfway between Damascus and Mecca. A people named Thamud are mentioned in historical sources, but the very oldest one is connected to the Assyrian king Sargon II and dated to ca. 715 BC - far later than Moses. This people disappeared from historical sources around 600-400 BC. Islam wants their disappearance to have been connected to volcanic eruptions, but we have been unable to find confirmation for volcanic activity in that area around 600-400 BC. (Volcanic activity in Arabia mainly stopped some 400ooo years ago.)

    Then finally there is the last of the 3 specific Arab claimed prophets, Shu’ayb. He in the Quran is connected to Madyan and to "the People of the Wood". This is somewhat complicated. For one thing it is unclear if "the Midianites" and "the People of the Wood" were the same or two different people. For another it is unclear where the Bible's Midian was situated. Originally we like many others believed the Bible's Midian and the Quran's Madyan were the same place - in the north-west of the Arab peninsula. But further studies have made us doubt this. There are two possible explanations for the Bible's Midian: Moses' Midian may have been to the east of Egypt or to the south of that country - it is not specified in the Bible whether Moses went east or south. If he went south (= along the Nile valley where it was easy to find a living), his Midian was in Sudan. If he went east, it was somewhere east of Egypt. And then the question is: Was the Bible's Midian just the name of a place somewhere, or did it refer to the land of the Midianites (Midian was the 4. of Abraham's 6 sons with his second wife, Keturah - 1. Mos. 25/2). If it was just a geographical name it may have been anywhere - f.x. in Madyan in Arabia. But if it referred to "the land of the Midianites", it was on the Sinai peninsula. If Moses found a Midian to the East of Egypt, this last explanation is the likely one for 2 reasons: For one thing this Midian was on his way east and much closer than Madyan in Arabia, and for another: The Madyanites were related to the Jews and a natural place for a fleeing Jew to settle. And what is absolutely sure is that as the Thamud according to history seems to have existed from perhaps 800 or more BG to around 600-400 BC, and the Madyanites/Midianites of the Quran lived later according to that book, it is totally impossible that Shu'ayb could be identical to Moses' father-in-law, Jethro, like many Muslims claim - Jethro lived around 1350 BC.

    We may add that most relevant somewhat neutral experts think Midian was in Sinai.

    003 26/177a: "- - - Shu'ayb - - -". Another claimed prophet in the old Arabia you only find in the Quran. There were 3 of them, and Shu'ayb was the last one. Some Muslims claim he was identical to the father-in-law of Moses, Jethro (2. Mos. 18/1) but it is clear from Islamic sources that he - if he ever existed - lived a few centuries earlier than Jethro).

    004 28/26a: "O my (dear) father! Engage him (Moses*) on wages - - -" According to the Bible it was on his own initiative that Jethro (the name is from the Bible) engaged Moses (2. Mos. 2/20). A minor, but clear contradiction to the Bible.

    005 28/27a: "I (Jethro*) intend to wed one of these my daughters to thee, on condition that you serve me for eight years - - -". This is not from the Bible (though the Bible tells he married one of the 7 daughters of Jethro, Zipporah. (2. Mos. 2/21). Maybe a mix up with Jacob's work for 7 years for each of his wives Leah and Rachel (1. Mos. 29/16-28).

    Jethro also must have been busy getting rid of his daughters, if he the very first day he met a roaming vagabond, told the stranger that he intended to marry a daughter to him.

    5 + 3547 = 3552 comments (+ basic comments/introductions).


     

    134.   JESUS CHRIST

    As our time line is a little wrong, Jesus in reality was born 4 - 6 years BC. He at least officially was the son of Joseph, and thus his official name was Jesus ben Joseph (= Jesus son of Joseph), or - as Jesus is the Greek version of the Hebrew name Joshua (NT originally was written in Greek) - Joshua ben Joseph. It seems that he started his mission when he was 30 and was executed some 3 years later. I.e. according to the Quran he was not executed - if he was killed and resurrected, he clearly was something more than Muhammad. Islam tells that somebody else was executed instead of Jesus, and that Jesus was taken up to Heaven alive and never died. There in this connection are four points Muslims never mention:

    1. How to find a victim to crucify who looked enough like Jesus to cheat even his closest co-workers, his closest family, his worst enemies, and everybody else?
    2. How to find a victim who in his utter pain on the cross would not scream that things were wrong, that he was not Jesus and should be taken down?
    3. How to find a victim able to and willing to say what Jesus according to the Bible said hanging on the cross? (And remember here that there were too many witnesses to this for anybody to falsify it later.)

    4. If Jesus was taken up to Heaven alive - with or without being crucified - this is an as supernatural happening and an as good proof for Jesus' connection to something supernatural, as being killed and resurrected - - - and consequently proof for that Jesus was something more than Muhammad.
    5.  

    For more about Jesus, see our about Jesus in the Quran.

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    135.   JEWISH PROPHETS

    The old Jews had a lot more prophets than the ones named in the OT (+ Jesus). Of Biblical prophets the Quran mainly mentions some of the ones named there + some (f.x. Lot/Lut) who are not reckoned to be prophets according to the Bible, become such ones in the Quran.

    There are several lists of who were the old Jewish prophets, as there are borderline cases where one has little sure knowledge, and there are cases where the names are unclear - remember though that even though some prophets are not named in the Bible, they may be named in other old Jewish scriptures. (It also is clear that there were many more prophets than the ones named in the scriptures.) This list is from "Jewish Virtual Library":

    Female prophets:

    • 1. Sarah.
    • 2. Miriam.
    • 3. Deborah.
    • 4. Hannah (Mother of Shmuel/Samuel).
    • 5. Avigail (who became a wife of David).
    • 6. Huldah.
    • 7. Esther.
    Male prophets:
    • 1. Abraham (Avraham in Hebrew). Often not listed among the prophets.
    • 2. Isaac (Yitxchak). Often not listed among the prophets.
    • 3. Jacob (Yaacov). Often not listed among the prophets.
    • 4. Moses (Moshe).
    • 5. Aaron (Aharon). Often not listed among the prophets.
    • 6. Joshua (Yehoshuah).
    • 7. Pinchas (not named in the Bible).
    • 8. Elkanah (not named in the Bible), (father of Shumel/Samuel).
    • 9. Eli.
    • 10. Samuel (Shmuel).
    • 11. Gad (not named in the Bible).
    • 12. Nosson (not named in the Bible).
    • 13. King David (David Hamelech). Often not listed among the prophets.
    • 14. King Solomon (Shlomo Hamelech). Often not listed among the prophets.
    • 15. Aidoin the Golah (not named in the Bible).
    • 16. Mich ben Yamla (in the time of Achav).
    • 17. Obadiah (Oadiah).
    • 18. Ashiah Hashiloni (not named in the Bible).
    • 19. Yehu ben Hanani (in the time of Asah).
    • 20. Asaryah ben Oded (not named in the Bible ) (from the time of David Hayamim).
    • 21. Haziel from Bnei Masni (not named in the Bible).
    • 22. Eliezer, his cousin (not named in the Bible).

    • 23. Morishah (not named in the Bible.
    • 24. Hoseah.
    • 25. Amos (in the time of Yeravam ben Yoash).
    • 26. Micha (in the time of Yosam).
    • 27. Elijah (Eliyahu).
    • 28. Elisha.
    • 29. Yonah ben Amitai.
    • 30. Yeshaya (in the time of Manashe in the time of Yoshea).
    • 31. Joel (Yoel).
    • 32. Nachum. (Not named in the Bible.)
    • 33. Habakuk.
    • 34. Zephaniah (not named in the Bible).
    • 35. Uriah from Kiryat Yearim (not named in the Bible).
    • 36. Jeremiah (Yirmiyahu).
    • 37. Yehezkel.
    • 38. Daniel (in the time of Darius).
    • 39. Baruch (not named in the Bible).
    • 40. Neriah (not named in the Bible).
    • 41. Sharyah (not named in the Bible).
    • 42. Machsiyah (not named in the Bible).
    • 43. Hagai.
    • 44. Zechariah.
    • 45. Malachi.
    • 46. Mordechai.
    • 47. And according to NT there of course is Jesus.

     

    Some mean that Daniel was not a prophet, but that Shemaia (who told Rehawam not to go to war with the northern kingdom) and perhaps also the sons of Korach were.

    It also is added: "A commentator on the side says one is Oded & one is Hanani Haroeh. When a Navi is called by his father's name, it is a sign that the father is also a navi. Azriah ben Oded, Yehu ben Hanani, Zechariyah ben Yehoyada are given as examples.

    And according to NT there as said of course is Jesus.

    (Below also are included some who were prophets only according to the Quran. Beware that there are so many points showing that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god and that the old Jewish prophets, included Jesus, were not in the same line of prophets - f.x. not the same religion, not the same moral code, not the same paradise, etc., etc. - that we have omitted many of them.)

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    001 From 2/42d: Besides 5. Mos. 15. and 18. continues into 21. (NEVER mentioned by Muslims) which explains that one will recognize the Lord’s prophet on that they make prophesies, and correct prophesies. Muhammad never made real prophesies – he did not even pretend to or claim to have that gift, not one single time in all the Quran, but on the contrary sometimes stated that he was unable "to see the unseen". Aisha also tells in the Hadiths (Al-Bukhari) that "the ones claiming Muhammad could foretell the future, were wrong".(He simply was no real prophet, but borrowed that imposing and impressive title.)002 From 2/42d: (In the oldest times the name for a prophet even was "a seer" - one who was able to see what was hidden, included see the future.)

    *003 2/53b: “- - - We (Allah*) gave Moses the scripture - - -”. The books named after Moses (the 5 first in the Bible - the Torah) are not written by Moses and not even at the time of Moses. Moses lived (if he is not a fiction) around 1300-1200 BC (if the Exodus from Egypt really took place, it took place ca. 1235 BC during the reign of Pharaoh Ramses II according to science), and those books were written not earlier than ca. 800 BC - perhaps as late as 500 BC - also this according to science. (But remember there is a difference between writing down a story later, and falsifying a story, like Muslims claims - without and even against documentation. It also is likely there were written documents). What Moses got according to the Bible, were the 10 Commandments written in stone + he was told the law (parts of what later was called the Book (or Books) of Moses - in 2/53 called the Scriptures) which he himself wrote down afterward (this sometimes is called "the Book of Covenant" - f.x. 2. Mos. 24/7). A god had known this, whereas Muhammad knew nothing about their real age, and had to guess. (To be exact: The Bible says that Yahweh told Moses the law – nothing material except the two stone tablets where the ten Commandments were inscribed, were brought down from the mountain – and that he himself wrote down the laws afterward. OT also says that when Solomon moved the Ark of Covenant into the Temple in Jerusalem (1.Kings 8/9), it only contained the two stone tablets. There is nothing about “the Books of Moses”, though the OT makes it clear that the laws existed in writing and were found again later – but science is unanimous that the Books of Moses (you also see it written in singular) are written much later. If Muslims claim something else, they will have to produce proofs.) The law really only is part of the Torah/Books of Moses, but the name often is used for the complete "books of Moses".

    004 2/61g: "(The Jews*) went on - - - slaying His Messengers - - -". Similar things is said several places in the Quran. But read through the Bible and see how many - or few - of the named prophets who in reality were killed. (There also were unnamed prophets, but the percentage should be similar).

    005 From 2/75b: Jeremiah (Jewish prophet) tells: “If a prophet or a priest or anyone else (incorrectly*) claims, ‘This is the oracle of the LORD (Yahweh*), I (Yahweh*) will punish that man and his household. - - - But you must not mention ‘the oracle of the LORD’ again because (if you do*) every man’s word becomes his oracle and so you distort (pervert*) the words of the living God”. (NIV). There is an abyss between this meaning and the meaning Islam put into the above slightly twisted cherry-picked quotation from the Bible. Dishonest and slightly disgusting – and quite revealing about some Muslim methods and lacks of real facts and arguments.

    • *Muhammad lived to lose all his children except one daughter (Fatima - who died some months later) - a punishment for claiming to represent Yahweh alias Allah?
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    006 From 2/76b: There have been many more false prophets than real ones through the times. (Likely including Muhammad.)

    007 From 2/76b: Muhammad's religion was far from both the OT and even much further from NT, and in addition he was unable to make prophesies - even if he had been a prophet, he is far too far from the teaching of Yahweh and Yahweh’s Jewish prophets. (= The old Jewish prophets were in another line of prophets than Muhammad).

    008 From 2/89b: The Bible has lots and lots of prophesies, the Quran hardly any real one (even the one about Jesus telling that a prophet named Ahmad - Muhammad - is to be expected, is of the typically helpless kind you get from sly brains with too little knowledge (here overdone by using an unmistakable name, which no Jewish prophet never did when foretelling distant future*)). Even more: Many of the prophesies in the Bible were fulfilled, and this sometimes even after the stories were written down - the falsifiers had to be good prophets themselves?

    009 2/98c: "- - - Messengers (included Muhammad*) - - -". See 63/5a below.

    010 2/136c: "- - - the revelation given to us (Muhammad*), and to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes (the 12 Jewish tribes*) and that given to Moses and Jesus, and given to (all) the Prophets (Hadiths mention the number 124ooo prophets during all times and all places!) - - -". The Quran as you see claims that all prophets to all times each has got their copy of the Quran - or to be more correct a copy of the same revered "mother book" in Heaven which the Quran is a copy of according to Islam. It must have been informative for the claimed Inuit prophets in North Canada to read about the blessed shade from the sun and the fruits and camels everyone knew, or for one in the really old England to read about the blessed rain.

    Science has found exactly not one trace from neither the claimed non-Biblical prophets, nor the claimed Islamic religion, nor from any of the claimed books, nor from a claimed god like Muhammad's version of the old pagan god Allah - not even a reference. Whereas from the Bible there are more than 40ooo manuscripts, fragments or quotations older than 610 AD - manuscripts only referring to but not quoting the Bible, not included. Worse: Also Islam has found not one proved falsification strengthening their claims - a 110% proof for that there are no falsifications, because if there had been, Islam had found them and screamed and bellowed about them

    Believe this Islamic claim whoever wants.

    011 2/246c: "- - - the Prophet (that was) among them (the Jews after Moses*) - - -". Here is referred to Samuel. A time anomaly. See 4/13d below. Also note how often the Quran is vague on information - here like many other places it had been much better to give the name (here Samuel according to the very often much more concise Bible). Not good literature.

    012 2/246g: “How could we refuse to fight in the cause of Allah.” The Quran pretends Jews are saying this to one of their prophets (Samuel), but it really is included as a pep talk to Muslims inspiring them to war. The text is somewhat(!) changed compared the one in the Bible, from where the story comes (1. Sam., chapter 8) - these words simply are not from the Bible.

    013 2/247a: "Their (the Jews'*) Prophet - - -". In this case Samuel - the Quran often is not good on exact facts and information, note f.x. how often the book is vague on names, times, etc. Not good literature.

    014 2/248a: "- - - their (the Jews'*) Prophet - - - ". Here = Samuel. One of the Quran's weaknesses as literature is that it often has vague details - like here omitting a well known name (most likely because Muhammad did not know it or forgot it when he was telling this story). Other times it has a lot of details - details there is no chance that Muhammad knew, but which were to be found in known legends, fairy tales, etc. at that time, or wrong science, history, etc. one believed in in "the Middle East" at the time of Muhammad. Not to mention the cases where there is no known source - where did he get the information from as the Quran with all its mistakes, etc., is not from any god?

    015 2/248i: "- - - if ye (Jews ca. 1000 BC*) indeed have faith". Beware that Muhammad claimed the old prophets were teaching Islam (but that the religion later was falsified). That Samuel preached Islam needs strong proofs to be believed, and that the Bible is falsified, simply is thoroughly proved wrong by science, and even more so by Islam who both have been unable to find one single proved falsification in all the tens of thousands (ca. 45ooo?) relevant old manuscripts.

    016 From 2/252h: Also relevant here is that the original title of the Jewish prophets as mentioned was not "prophet" but "seer" - one who saw at least parts of the unseen. (F.x. 1. Sam. 9/9#, 1. Sam. 9/11, 1. Sam. 9/18, 1. Sam. 9/19, 2. Kings. 17/13, 1. Chr. 9/22, 1. Chr. 26/28, 1. Chr. 29/29, 2. Chr. 9/29, 2. Chr. 16/7, 2. Chr.16/10, 2. Chr. 19/2, 2. Chr. 29/25, Amos 7/12, Mic. 3/7 - some places the two titles even are used side by side). Muhammad thus so definitely was no seer - prophet - even according to his own words; he had no "knowledge of the unseen".

    Many liked - and like - the title prophet, and there have been made other definitions for this title - the most common of these are "one who brings messages from a god", or "one who represents a god", or "one who acts/talks on behalf of a god". But the fact remains: Without being able to prophesy, he or she is no real prophet. A messenger for someone or something - ok. An apostle - ok. But not a real prophet.

    ###This is a fact no Muslim will admit: Muhammad in reality simply was no real prophet or seer. Perhaps a messenger for someone or something or for himself – or perhaps an apostle – but not a real prophet. He only “borrowed” that impressive and imposing title. It is up to anyone to guess why.

    Also see 30/40h below.

    017 2/253a: "- - - to one of them Allah spoke - - -". It here refers to Moses, but it is a clear contradiction to the Bible that the god spoke to no more than one Biblical person directly - he also spoke directly to others, f.x. Jesus (but Jesus has to be reduced so as not to compete with Muhammad), to Abraham, and some of the Jewish prophets, f.x. Samuel (1. Sam. 3/4-14).

    018 2/253b: "- - - others (other messengers*) He (Allah*) raised to degrees (of honor) - - -". Here we find an interesting piece of translation. According to our sources the exact translation of the Arab original is: "and some he raised even higher". Translators dearly wants this to refer to Muhammad - and it well may, as it is Muhammad himself who dictated the text to his listeners. But it is not clear - and "higher" may mean physically or spiritually. Remember that according to the Bible 2 or 3 of the prophets (Elijah (2. Kings 2/11) and Jesus (NT) and perhaps Enoch (Gen. 5/24)) were raised up to Heaven alive. By adding the words "(of honor)", the translators omits the physical possibilities - and as in Islam Muhammad of course is worth more than Jesus, it is quite likely it is Muhammad who is meant(!). (This in spite of that both according to the Quran and to the Bible Jesus had a different and closer contact to the god than Muhammad - the Quran (19/19) even confirms Jesus was holy, something Muhammad definitely was not).

    019 3/21e: "- - - those - - - who slay the prophets, and slay those who teach just dealing with mankind - - -" = non-Muslims, may be especially Jews (Christians should go free here, as the known prophets lived before this religion started, except for Jesus, and he was not killed by Christians). This with slaying the prophets is an often repeated black spot, but if you read the Bible, you will see that in reality few of the known prophets were slain. But it is a very good and heavy argument when speaking to people not knowing this. And as for "teaching just dealing with mankind" - was the Muslim "dealing with mankind" through history "just"? - only the ones who do not know history - or Muslims - can answer "yes" to this question - and Muslims only because most of them only have been told a very colored story about how heroic their heroes have been and how Muslims have won and have been rich and mighty and how "just and good" everything have been - totally without empathy with the victims or giving even one thought to how life - or death - became for the victims, not to mention total destruction of whole cultures, and the slowness of the rebuilding of culture and civilization in spite of Islam and its struggle against all knowledge not related to religion - cfr. fanatics like al-Ghazali. A rebuilding which finally had to take place in the West - outside the old area of culture from the eastern Mediterranean to India (China stagnated for other reasons). The old cultural center in what we call the Middle East simply was destroyed as a center for knowledge, and a new one had to be built from scratch in Europe. One may wonder what had happened to the world, if f.x. Persia and other cultural centers in the region had not been destroyed, and later again had its science, philosophy and knowledge suppressed around 1100 AD after a partial rebuilding. From the Muslim area there came not one single new idea or thought which could benefit humanity after ca. 1100 AD - a little later in the western Muslim area.

    020 3/33aa: "Allah did choose - - - Adam (and some others*) - - - above all people". According to science Adam never existed in a version even remotely similar to the story in the Quran.

    Another difference between the Bible and the Quran: In the Bible Adam is something special, but not reckoned among the prophets. In Islam he is a prophet.

    021 3/65c: "Why dispute ye (Jews and Christians*) about Abraham, when the Law and the Gospel were not revealed till after him?" Well, according to the Quran Abraham had a book, and that must have been the Quran, as the Quran according to Islam (and the Quran) is a copy of the eternal "mother book" in Heaven and copies of that book were given to the old prophets according to the Quran. And then Abraham's copy - and Jesus' copy - must have been identical or at least nearly identical to the present Quran. All this according to Islam. As also Jesus "original" teaching was Islam, according to both the Quran, to Muhammad, and to Islam, the Gospels must have been pieces from Jesus' copy of the Quran, which later was falsified, still according to Islam - even though falsification of the Bible is proved wrong by both science and Islam, as none of them has been able to prove even one falsification from the tens of thousands of relevant old manuscripts. Believe it who wants - but you have to want to believe it to be able to do so.

    022 3/80c: "Would he (a prophet - here indicated Jesus*) bid you unbelief after ye have bowed your will (to Allah in Islam)?" To say the least of it: A strong contradiction to the Bible - Jesus asked everyone to believe in Yahweh, not in al-Lah/Allah (called only Allah by Muhammad).

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    ##023 3/81a: "Behold, Allah took the Covenant of the Prophets, saying:" - - - then comes to you a Messenger (Muhammad*) confirming what is with you (= the scriptures the prophets had and their teachings*); you must believe in him and rendering him help". There is nothing like this in the entire Bible. Besides: How could the prophets help Muhammad? - they were all dead hundreds of years before Muhammad was even born - many of them a thousand years and more before.

    A curiosum is that there nowhere in the Quran is told where and when Allah made a covenant with Muhammad or with the Muslims. There only is the matter-of-fact tone claim that there is one.

    Another curiosum: Jesus according to the proved not falsified Bible NEVER gave any help to Muhammad, NEVER said anything about Muhammad, NEVER said anything which could help Muhammad, NEVER mentioned a god of war like Allah, NEVER mentioned a religion of war and suppression and blood like Islam, NEVER even touched the hateful, suppressing, bloody, warlike, and not least dishonest moral code like the one in the Quran. Morally there are oceans between Yahweh and Allah, and between Jesus and Muhammad - oceans and light-years.

    Similar goes for all the old Jewish prophets.

    ###To give you a complicated, but very clear message: The only place in the Bible where Jesus mentions Muhammad, is in the very reliable Quran and in the even more reliable the Hadiths. (There are Muslims who drop the Hadiths because they are too unreliable.)

    Similar goes for all the old Jewish prophets - included Moses.

    Another fact concerning all Jewish prophets: According to the Bible (and for at least Jesus also according to history) their god was Yahweh, not Allah.

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    024 3/81b: "Behold, Allah took the Covenant of the Prophets, saying:' - - - then comes to you a Messenger (Muhammad*) confirming what is with you (= the scriptures the prophets had and their teachings*); you (the Jewish prophets*) must believe in him and rendering him help'". A time anomaly. See 4/13d below.

    025 3/81c: "- - - you (the Jewish prophets*) must believe in him (Muhammad*) - - -". How could they, when they were dead centuries and more before Muhammad was born, and even a little more before he started telling what he wanted people to believe? NB: There is nothing like this in the Bible.

    ##026 3/81e: "I (Allah*) give you (the prophets*) a Book - - -". As mentioned other places the prophets all got a copy of the claimed "Mother of the Book" according to the Quran. The Quran claims that all societies to all times and all places have been sent prophets teaching Islam (but neither science nor Islam has found the tiniest traces of such prophets or teaching) - Hadiths mention 124ooo through the times, and even this may just be a symbolic number. And as you see here they as mentioned each got a book which was a copy of the claimed "mother book" in Heaven, similar to the copy Muhammad claimed he got - the Quran. The claimed "mother book" either is made by the god or have existed since eternity according to Muslims - and is revered by Allah and his angels. You of course are permitted to believe this, but the normal reaction when you meet this claim after having read the Quran and all its mistakes, contradictions, invalid logic, helpless language (helpless in bringing clear messages not to be misunderstood), etc., is disbelief or a hearty laughter - no god would revere a quality like the Quran.

    #####As all the claimed books, included the Bible and the Quran, were copies of the same book, all the books should be very similar. One of the very many never proved claims in the Quran - a claim which is proved wrong on at least two points: 1. Out of claimed at least 124ooo copies (according to Hadiths) + likely copies of these, not one single fragment or quote is ever found. This at least - at least - is a very strong circumstantial proof for that the claim is wrong, this even more so as there are found tens of thousands of quotes, copies, and fragments from the Bible from the same period of time. 2. The Bible provably was never falsified. This again proves that the Bible and the Quran never was even similar books.

    027 3/81l: "Allah said: 'Do ye (all the old prophets*) agree, and take this Covenant (including believing in and helping Muhammad*) as binding on you?' They said: 'We agree'". There is nothing even remotely similar to this in the Bible. Besides it was physically impossible: They all were dead centuries and even millennia before Muhammad was even born.

    028 3/81m: "Allah said: 'Do ye (all the old prophets*) agree, and take this Covenant (including believing in and helping Muhammad*) as binding on you?' They said: 'We agree'". He said: 'Then bear witness (about Muhammad*) - - -". They cannot have been very reliable, as exactly none of the known prophets ever mentioned him - included not Abraham, not Moses, and not Jesus to mention 3 of the main prophets according to the Quran (and yes, we know about the cherry-picked, wrong claims concerning 5. Mos. 18/15 and 18/18, and about the helper Jesus promised his disciples (the Holy Spirit) which Islam claims meant Muhammad 500+ years after the last disciple was dead).

    *029 3/84i: “- - - in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets- - - -”. What is indicated here, is that all got the same book - the Quran or something very similar (actually the claim is a copy of the claimed "mother book" in Heaven). But the claim is proved wrong by science and even stronger by Islam by being unable to find and document any falsifications in the Bible. You bet Islam had told about it if they had found even one single provable falsification! Then also there is the fact that one has got some 45ooo papers from before 610 AD relevant to the Bible, but not one single similar to the Quran. If there had been 124ooo or more prophets teaching Islam, where are the traces? 45ooo : 0 means something in that claim is wrong.

    030 3/112d: "- - - slew the Prophets - - -". Read the Bible - how many prophets of Yahweh did the Jews in reality slew? Except for Jesus not many.

    031 3/125b: “Yea – if you remain firm - - - your Lord (Allah*) would help you with five thousand angels making a terrific onslaughter”. This is not from the Bible, and you also find nothing similar anywhere in that book, not even in the more warlike OT, where the Jews should and had to fight to get a country for themselves, and later to defend it. If Yahweh and Allah had been the same god, this had meant that the god suddenly had got a new idea: Send the angels to take part in battles on Earth. A likely idea?

    The fact that no Jewish prophet ever told the same kind of story, also is one more proof tor that Muhammad was not in such a line of prophets - if he had been a prophet. His teaching also on points like this, was very different from the teaching of the Jewish prophets, and thus not in their line or tradition.

    032 3/144d: "- - - many were the Messengers that passed away before him (Muhammad*)". The Quran claims that all societies through all times have been sent prophets teaching Islam - Hadiths mention the number 124ooo. Neither science nor Islam have been able to find any trace of such prophets or such a religion (except in the Bible, but those prophets preached about another religion and another god - Yahweh - a god Islam wrongly and without proofs claims is the same god as Allah, but the fundamentals of the teachings are too different for this to be true).

    We may add that if we compare this number with the time perspective in the Bible - on which also Islam here rests as the Quran builds on the same persons in the old times - this perspective is some 6ooo-7ooo years. Which in case means some Allah according to the Quran sent prophets/messengers for some 5ooo years up to the claimed last one Muhammad. This again means some 24 new prophets a year - 2 a month. And not one of them except a few Jewish ones left a trace at all. Believe it if you are able to.

    If we instead use the scientific perspective and say that Allah's sending of prophets/messengers started when Homo Sapiens started, we still end up with some 60 - 80 a century. (Homo Sapiens developed some 160ooo-200ooo years ago - one has a small preference for ca. 195ooo years ago. If we use this number, we end up with some 2 every 3 years - ca. 1 every 18 months. And not one leaving a trace except the few mentioned Jewish ones. (Why only the Jewish ones by the way, if Allah sent to all nations and cultures and people all over the world and to all times?)

    *033 3/146a: “How many of the Prophets fought (in Allah’s way) - - -". Exactly no-one of the known prophets from the Bible. The very few of the known ones of them who took part in fighting, fought for earthly reasons. None took part in a religious war. The wars you find in OT (there is none in NT) were political ones or punishment of the Jews from Yahweh. There were no wars to spread the mosaic religion, as contrast to "holy wars" - jihads - fought by Muslims. One more of the big differences between the Bible and the Quran.

    034 3/146b: “How many of the Prophets fought (in Allah’s way), and with them fought large bands of godly men? But they never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah’s way, nor did they weaken (in will) nor give in. And Allah loves those who are firm and steadfast.” A pep-talk to warriors of all times - never give in, never give up, retreat if you have to, but go on and you will win like the prophets, because Allah will help - - - and sooner or later the lover of religious warriors, Allah, will give you Paradise. Like in the Old Norse religion and other war religions.

    As for prophets, Islam maintains that they have existed to all times and all places - Hadith mention the number 124ooo, but even that is just a symbol for uncountable many. (Using the religious time-scale = some 5ooo years up to Muhammad, gives 2 new prophets each and every month for those 5ooo years. Using the scientific time-scale = perhaps 195ooo years for Homo Sapiens, gives one new prophet every 18 months approximately. Believe it if you are able to.). This is not true, because it is not possible to find a single trace of monotheistic prophets (except the few in the Bible) anywhere or any time in any form - history, literature, art, architecture, archeology, or even in folk tales. It is not possible that so many prophets should leave not a single trace - especially the warring ones should leave traces, even if they had no success with spreading the religion.

    And not many of the prophets we know about from other sources - mainly the Bible - did actually wage war. This picture becomes even more loop-sided when you remember the Bible mentions there were a number of prophets not named by name, and hardly any of these were leaders of wars - in that case they had been more central and named. (NB: The Bible does not reckon f.x. Saul and David - and not even Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob, not to mention Ishmael - primarily as prophets (Ishmael not as prophet at all). Leaders, but the title prophet hardly is used - for a central person like Abraham in all the Bible the title prophet is mentioned only a couple of times. Saul, David, Ishmael and a number of others are not reckoned to be prophets at all in the Bible.) The fact that Biblical prophets normally did not wage war, compared to Muhammad's war religion, also is one of the clear indications for that Muhammad was not in the Biblical line of prophets.

    035 3/147c: “- - - and help us against those that resist Faith”. Allah will help if you fight for Islam - or for Islamic leaders telling they defend Ummah and Islam. This is from 625 AD – the Medina period. It could have been meant as defensive help, but then one would have used “from”, not “against”. This verse contradicts (and abrogates) at least these verses (here are 88 out of the 124 Muslim scholars say are abrogated by 9/5): 2/109, 2/190, 2/256, 2/272, 3/20, 4/62, 4/81, 4/90, 5/3, 5/28, 5/48, 5/99, 6/60, 6/66, 6/70, 6/104, 6/107, 6/112, 6/158, 7/87, 7/188, 7/193, 7/199, 8/61, 9/68, 10/41, 10/99, 10/102, 10/108, 11/12, 11/121, 13/40, 15/3, 15/94, 16/35, 16/82, 16/125, 16/126, 16/127, 17/54, 18/29, 18/56, 19/39, 20/130, 21/107, 21/112, 22/49, 22/68, 23/54, 23/96, 24/54, 26/216, 27/92, 28/50, 28/55, 29/18, 29/46, 32/30, 34/25, 34/28, 35/23, 35/24a, 36/17, 39/41, 41/34, 42/6, 42/15, 42/48, 43/83, 43/89, 44/59, 45/14, 46/9, 46/135a, 46/135b, 46/135b, 50/39, 50/45, 51/50-51a, 51/54, 52/45, 52/47, 53/29, 67/26, 73/10, 73/11, 79/45, 86/17, 88/22, 109/6. They are all quoted under 9/5 in "1000+ Mistakes in the Quran". (At least 88 contradictions).

    Psychologically a mighty incitement and a strength for upping the fighting spirit, especially with uneducated, primitive warriors or fanatics.

    BUT YOU DO NOT FIND THIS KIND OF PROPHETS IN THE BIBLE. THERE WERE A FEW WHO WERE IMPLICATED IN WARS, BUT THAT WAS FOR MAKEING OR DEFENDING THE COUNTRY, N O T FOR THE GOD OR THE RELIGION.

    036 3/181f: "- - - slaying the prophets in defiance of right - - -". Is there any time or place where it is right to slay real prophets?

    037 3/194a: "Grant us (Muslims*) what Thou (Allah*) didst promise unto us (Muslims) through Thy prophets - - -." The Quran claims that all the old prophets - 124ooo Islam says (included the old Jewish ones) - are "their" prophets, and prophets in a long line leading up to Muhammad. But for this to be true, Muhammad's teachings, moral, ethics, etc. have to be in accordance with the corresponding ones of the old prophets - if one belongs to the same tradition from the same god, at least the main points have to be similar and nothing contradicting. In this case these facts do not add up. Muhammad cannot be in the same line unless the god suddenly changed his mind very much on several points (especially around 622 - 624 AD when Islam changed from relatively peaceful to a pure religion of war and suppression) - his teaching is very different from the known prophets. A fact few non-Muslims are aware of and no Muslims ever mention (also most lay Muslims are not aware of this fact, but their scholars know it).

    038 4/23a: "Prohibited for you (Muslims*) (for marriage) are - - - your - - - daughters - - -". Lot in the Quran is a prophet to Allah. All the same he got children with his 2 daughters (1. Mos. 19/31-36). (Islam "solves" the problem by claiming that it cannot be true. No proof, only claims - like normal for Muhammad.)

    039 4/23c: "Prohibited for you (Muslims*) (for marriage) are - - - two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time - - -". Jacob, who according to the Quran was a prophet to Allah, was married to the two sisters Leah and Rachel at the same time (1. Mos. 29/22-30). We have never seen any Muslim comment on this.

    040 4/64a: "We sent not a Messenger (included Muhammad*) but to be obeyed - - -". Obey Muhammad! - no comment. Well, one: Jesus - and many other Biblical prophets - said "follow me", not "obey me". There is a fundamental difference here. But "obey me" gives more power.

    041 4/152c: "- - - make no distinction between any of the Messengers". Now, Muslims tell that "messenger" is something more distinguished than "prophet", even though messenger only means an errand-boy, whereas prophet is a distinguished title which demands special gifts and abilities. A prophet in reality is something quite a lot more than a messenger-boy, but when Muslims try to tell the opposite, the reason may be that they react to the vague feeling that Muhammad in reality does not merit the title "prophet" (which he in reality does not, as he did not have thegift of prophesying), but all the same want him to have a glorious title. May be there were similar reasons for why Muhammad often used the title "messenger" instead of "prophet" in the Quran.

    But that aside: Muslims at least distinguish 5 "prophets" above all the others: 1. Muhammad, 2. Noah. 3. Abraham, 4. Moses + 5.Jesus. (1. Muhammad in reality was not a real prophet as mentioned. Abraham in the Bible behaved - and is mostly reckoned to have been - a patriarch, more than a prophet, though there one or two places (f.x. 1.Mos. 20/7) in the Bible is said he was a prophet. 3. Moses also is not mainly a prophet in the Bible, but more clearly was one. 4. On the other hand Jesus no doubt was a prophet, but is played down in the Quran for the obvious reason that if not, he could easily outshine Muhammad, because both the Bible and the Quran make it clear Jesus was tightly connected to something supernatural: His birth, his life, his miracles, his foretelling and in the Bible his death, resurrection and disappearance alive to Heaven, in the Quran his being taken up to Heaven (alive) by the god. The special case Jesus, and Muhammad's strong wish to be the greatest, may be the reason why the Quran some places stresses that no prophet is different from the others - and the danger that he should outshine Muhammad, highly likely is the reason why Jesus is played so much down in the Quran and the Hadiths (f.x. ending in 2. Heaven vs. Muhammad in seventh and close to the god).

    042 4/152f: "- - - make no distinction between any of the Messengers". Contradicted by the Bible which recons Jesus to be special (and ironically also by the Quran itself, which recon Muhammad to be special), and also differ between real and false/self proclaimed prophets (the title "messenger" is not used in the Bible). But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    043 4/155b: "- - - slew the Messengers - - -". This is frequently repeated in the Quran and is a serious accusation against the Jews. But read the OT and see how many - or few - in reality were killed.

    044 4/157f: "We killed Christ Jesus - - - the Messenger of Allah - - -". Wrong. For one thing not even his worst enemies claimed Jesus was a prophet of Allah (or al-Lah) - the pagan god al-Lah "lived" in the not too distant Arabia, and not one soul in Jerusalem thought about al-Lah there and then. But neither did they call him a prophet or messenger of Yahweh - the reason why they killed him was just that it was claimed, and many believed, he was a false prophet claiming to be a prophet for Yahweh, directly opposing of what the Quran here tells they said.

    045 4/158b: (YA664): “Nay, Allah raised him (Jesus*) up unto Himself - - -“. There is difference among Muslims what this exactly means: Was Jesus raised up to heaven bodily and never died? Or did he die later than the crucifixion Islam denies and spared the indignities the Jews intended for him? Muslims will give you different answers, because the text is not clear - but it is clear that the god somehow was involved even according to the Quran. (But none we have ever met has given a clear answer to where Jesus disappeared if he lived on on Earth – a person like Jesus would have left traces no matter where he fled – if he fled, which he absolutely did not do according to the Bible).

    What is for sure is for one thing that a person like Jesus could not disappear anywhere - he was too special a personality. And for another: If he was taken up to Heaven alive - which is the most often met explanation - that is just a good proof for the involvement of something supernatural - a god - as resurrection. And thus a clear indication for that Jesus was something much more than the self proclaimed, never proved messenger and prophet Muhammad.

    046 4/163e: "- - - We (Allah*) sent it (messages by inspiration*) to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the (12 Jewish*) Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and to Solomon - - -". As Muhammad claimed he received his verses from Allah by inspiration, it was essential to "prove" that this was a normal way for prophets to receive information from the god. And NB: He used these claimed Muslim prophets as proofs for that "inspiration" was a normal way of communication. The word "inspiration" is not used anywhere in the Bible in such connections. Also it is nowhere in the Bible mentioned that Ishmael had a close enough connection to Yahweh to be a prophet.

    047 4/164a: "- - - and to Moses Allah spoke direct - - -". Omitting the fact that the Quran wrongly mixes Yahweh and Allah, and that according to the Bible it was Yahweh who spoke to Moses, Yahweh also spoke directly to others - f.x. Samuel (1. Sam. 3/4-14) - and to Jesus. (Muhammad knew very little about the Jewish prophets, but any god had known.)

    048 4/165aa: "Messengers (4/163 and 4/164 show here is meant old Jewish prophets*) who gave good news, as well as warning that mankind - - -". The old Jewish prophets mainly spoke to and about Jews and neighboring people, not to mankind as such.

    049 4/163c: "- - - Noah and the Messengers after him - - -". Muhammad claimed there to all times and all places had been messengers/prophets from Allah teaching Islam - included the Biblical prophets and other Biblical persons which all are claimed to have been good Muslims. Hadiths mention the number 124ooo through the times. Neither science nor Islam has been able to find a single documented trace of Islam older than 610 AD when Muhammad started his mission. Also neither science nor Islam has ever found a trace of relevant messengers/prophets. (Just to mention it: As both science and Islam have proved beyond any reasonable and unreasonable doubt that the Bible is not falsified - neither has found one single documented falsification among the some 45ooo relevant scriptures and fragments - it is clear that the Biblical prophets are irrelevant here, as they believed in Yahweh, the old originally Jewish god who in spite of strong, but as normal for Muslims never documented claims, is not identical to Allah, as the teachings and the fundamental elements of the religions are too different.)

    050 4/171i: “Christ Jesus was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah - - -”. Muhammad could not afford that Jesus was anything more than a normal prophet - in that case he himself impossible could be the greatest.

    ###051 5/19f: "- - - after a break in (the series of Our (Allah's*) Messengers - - -". Muhammad and the Quran pretended/pretend Muhammad belong(ed) in the Jewish line - or series - of prophets. This is not correct, as both the god, the teaching and the fundamental ideas, ethics and moral codes are too different - Muhammad and his god and teaching often are even the antithesis of the prophets in the Bible and especially of the NT. Muhammad definitely is not in that line.

    052 5/44d: "- - - the (Jewish*) Prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah's Will - - -". You can be pretty sure it was to Yahweh's will. Muslims claim the two gods, Allah and Yahweh, were the same one, but the fundamental elements in Islam and in the Mosaic religion, not to mention in Christianity are too different - it is not possible it is the same god (unless he is seriously mentally ill), and not possible that f.x. Jesus and Muhammad were in the same line of prophets - the teachings were too different (and the only "explanation" offered by Islam - falsified Bible - is proved wrong by science and even more so by Islam).

    Also as far back as science is able to trace history, the god of the Jews was Yahweh - in the earliest times also named El. As for Christians, the same goes all the way back to the start of the religion. (The first cuneiform written scriptures in those areas reach back to 1ooo-12oo BC and the hieroglyphs in Egypt even further back. They only give glimpses of the life of those times, but enough to that we get a picture of the religions, and there is nothing like Allah, like Islam, or like the Quran. And this grows more detailed and reliable after the raise of the Roman Empire - still nothing like Allah, nothing like Islam, and no trace from texts like the ones in the Quran.(- compared to some 45ooo older than 610 AD from the Bible - why nothing from the Quran?)

    Islam will have to prove their words to be believed - but Islam never gives valid profs for any central points in their religion.

    053 5/114d: “Send us (Jesus and the Disciples*) from heaven a Table set (with viands), - - -”. A made up story - there is no chance that such a miracle which clearly shows Jesus’ connection to Yahweh, would be omitted from the Bible. Not one single chance. Even if Muhammad had been right and Christians had falsified the NT, this is the kind of stories they had added, not omitted. Some Muslims say this may refer a little to “The Prayer of God” - "give us our daily bread" - in the Bible. Much more likely it is a contorted version of the last Easter supper.

    The Quran tells nearly nothing about Jesus as a preacher or about his teachings. The main points for Muhammad were that Jesus was a good Muslim and that even though Jesus was a great prophet – and a real prophet according to both the Bible and to the Quran – he in reality was no match to the greatest: Muhammad. Muhammad claimed to be the greatest prophet - - - but never even proved that he at all was one.

    054 6/19c: "- - - this Quran hath been revealed to me (Muhammad*) by inspiration - - -”. Information transferred "by inspiration" is a very unreliable way, as it is impossible to know from where the inspiration came - one may believe, but not know. It also is very convenient to claim inspiration if one needs or wants to add a little - some texts in the Quran has nothing to do in holy books, but were very convenient for Muhammad. It also is contradicted by the Bible: (4. Mos. 12/6) "When a prophet of the Lord, I (Yahweh*) reveal myself to him in visions, I speak to him in dreams, (or sometimes speak to him directly*)" - there never in the entire Bible is mentioned "by inspiration" in such cases. Also see 26/52a and 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    055 6/89c: "These were the men (the ones mentioned in verses 6/83 through 6/87*) to whom We (Allah*) gave - - - Prophethood - - -". Not all of this is from the Bible. Of the names mentioned only Jesus, Elias (Elijah), Elisha, and Moses are reckoned to be pure prophets, though Abraham, Joseph, and Jonah can be reckoned among them. As for Moses it is correct to reckon him among the prophets, but he was a special case. The same goes even more for Jesus. The others are not reckoned among the prophets in the Bible.

    056 6/90a: "Those were the (prophets) who received Allah's guidance - - -". There is documented only one (self proclaimed) prophet who has (claimed he has) got anything from Allah. Muhammad. And he only (claimed he) got the Quran. The others got it from Yahweh according to the Bible - a piece of information never proved wrong by the Quran - claims yes, proofs no.

    057 6/100e: "- - - sons - - -". Simply Jesus. Muhammad could not accept that Jesus perhaps was son of the god. For one thing he thought it would spoil his claim about only one god (not correct - Christians believe in Jesus, but all the same only one god, Jesus' father Yahweh). For another: Muhammad wanted to be the greatest of prophets, which was impossible if Jesus is the son of the god.

    058 6/106d: "- - - by inspiration - - -". Muhammad claimed he mainly got his messages from his claimed god by inspiration, and he frequently claimed that the old Jewish prophets got their messages the same way. This is contradicted by the Bible. This way of communication is never mentioned there - Yahweh stated he used 3 ways: Direct contact, visions, and dreams (4. Mos. 12/6-8) - inspiration was not an alternative. Thus Muhammad's claim here is wrong at least concerning the old prophets included Jesus. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    059 6/154a: “We (Allah*) gave Moses the Book (here intended to mean a claimed not falsified Bible = one similar to the Quran*), - - -”. As said some times before: The 5 books of Moses – also called “the Book of Moses” - (or the Torah) - were written 400-700 (500-800?) years later according to science. Moses only got the 10 Commandments in writing. That is to say: He also got “the Law” – which later became part of “the Book of Moses”- but only verbally, and then wrote it down himself later according to the Bible (what he wrote down sometimes is called "The Book of Covenant" - f.x. 2. Mos. 24/7). But the law for one thing is just part of the book, and for another: Science as said all the same means the full book is written centuries later. And NB: According to the Bible, he got the Commandments and the law from Yahweh, not from Allah - and the teachings of Jesus and of Muhammad are far too different; it is impossible they represented the same god or the same line of prophethood (in addition to that Muhammad was no real prophet - he was unable to make prophesies or "to see the unseen (3/144, 6/50,7/188,10/20, 27/65, 46/9, 72/26, 81/24)"). And we remind you: Science have long since proved beyond any reasonable or unreasonable doubt that Muhammad's never documented claims that the Bible is falsified, are wrong. Islam has proved the same even stronger by not finding one single clear case of falsifications in all the tens of thousands relevant old manuscripts or fragments.

    060 7/61ba: "- - - I (Noah*) am a prophet from the Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds (plural and wrong*)!" According to the Bible Noah's god was Yahweh not Allah.

    061 7/63a: (Noah said:) "Do ye (his people*) wonder that there hath come to you a messenger from your Lord (Allah*), through a man of your own people - - -?" Muhammad is making a parallel to himself (he often does in the Quran) - the claim (and in this case mostly correct - as most of the confirmed(?) ones were Jews working among Jews (but not all)) is that prophets come from among their own people, so then it is very normal that Muhammad is an Arab amongst Arabs, Muhammad claimed.

    062 7/63b: (Noah said:) "Do ye (his people*) wonder that there hath come to you a messenger from your Lord (Allah*), through a man of your own people - - -?" This - and much more - is not from the Bible.

    063 7/64b: "They (the people of Noah*) rejected him - - -". See 7/60a above.

    064 7/80a: "We (Allah*) also sent Lut (Lot*) - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which tells his god was Yahweh. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    065 7/80b: "We (Allah*) also sent Lut (Lot*) - - -". In the Quran Lot is a prophet. Not so in the Bible. (And in the Bible he as mentioned is connected to Yahweh, not to al-Lah (later renamed Allah)).

    066 7/80d: “- - - he (Lut/Lot*) said to his people (the people in Sodom and Gomorrah*).” Wrong. The local people were not Lot’s people. Both the Bible and the Quran are unanimous: Lot was a stranger to the land and had come from Ur in Chaldea in south Iraq (together with Abraham). It also from both books is clear that he had not mingled enough with the locals to become one of them. (Muslims all the same use that for an explanation).

    067 7/80f: Here is an interesting comment in (YA1049). Yusuf Ali comments on what is told in the Bible (1. Mos. 19/30-38) about Lot committing incest with his two daughters, something which is not mentioned in the Quran: "His (Lot's*) story is Biblical, but freed from some shameful features which are a blot on the Biblical narrative". The question is not if the story about the incest is true or not, but that it is a blot on the story of a claimed prophet (the Quran claims Lot was a prophet, which the Bible does not do). "A story we like is sometimes better than looking for what is the truth", someone once said.

    Perhaps there is a reason why Islam and its Muslims seldom claim that "Islam is the Religion of Honesty".

    068 From 7/157b: Also relevant here is that the original title of the Jewish prophets as mentioned was not "prophet" but "seer" - one who saw at least parts of the unseen. (F.x. 1. Sam. 9/9#, 1. Sam. 9/11, 1. Sam. 9/18, 1. Sam. 9/19, 2. Kings. 17/13, 1. Chr. 9/22, 1. Chr. 26/28, 1. Chr. 29/29, 2. Chr. 9/29, 2. Chr. 16/7, 2. Chr.16/10, 2. Chr. 19/2, 2. Chr. 29/25, Amos 7/12, Mic. 3/7 - some places the two titles even are used side by side). Muhammad thus so definitely was no seer - prophet - even according to his own words; he had no "knowledge of the unseen".

    Many liked - and like - the title prophet, and there have been made other definitions for this title - the most common of these are "one who brings messages from a god", or "one who represents a god", or "one who acts/talks on behalf of a god". But the fact remains: Without being able to prophesy, he or she is no real prophet. A messenger for someone or something - ok. An apostle - ok. But not a real prophet.

    069 From 7/157e:

    Point of relevance I, claim from Islam.

    1. Mos. 12/1-3, claim 1:

    "In 1. Mos. (= Genesis) 12/1-3 a promise is made to Abraham that he would be blessed and that all the nations would bless him and be blessed by him. It is only the descendants of Ishmael - Muhammad and the Muslims - that have fulfilled the promise that should bless him, since they are the ones who bless Abraham by praying for him and his family. Ergo these verses must indicate Muhammad."

    What the Bible really says (1. Mos. 12/1-3):

    "The Lord (Yahweh*) had said to Abram (later renamed Abraham*), 'Leave your country, your father's household and go to the land I will show you. I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.'" It is Yahweh who is doing the blessing - there is nowhere talk about people's blessing of him is any indication of anything. We mention that to make up arguments is an indication of lack of real arguments.

    Point of relevance II, claim from Islam.

    1. Mos. 12/1-3, claim 2:

    Claim 2: "Moses and Jesus were national prophets and could not fulfill Allah's/Yahweh's promise that the nations would be blessed in Abraham. Ergo 1. Genesis 12/1-3 must indicate Muhammad."

    We have quoted 1. Mos. 12/1-3 in the paragraph just above. Find the "clear foretelling of Muhammad" if you are able to.

    What the Bible really says:

    As for Moses: "- - - I (Yahweh*) have raised you (Moses*) up, to show you my power, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the Earth." Even Moses was a message to the world according to the Bible. As for Jesus: Read the orders he gave his disciples before he left them, ordering them to go into the entire world and make all people to his disciples by baptizing them in the name of Yahweh, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. There in addition are several places in the NT clearly telling that NT also was for all others not only the Jews. Not exactly aiming at just the small Israel.

    There also is an interesting piece of information in Acts 10/28: "You are well aware that it is against our (Jewish*) law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile (non-Jew*) or visit him". There may have been good reasons for Jesus not to go too much against such social rules - he had enough opposition anyhow - until the church had reached a reasonable size and strength to meet the extra opposition such proselyting could result in. (Besides: If Jesus personally worked just in one country, so also did the religious leader Muhammad). The claim is invalid.

    Point of relevance III, claim from Islam.

    1. Mos. 16/10 (similar in 17/18, 21/13):

    "Allah/Yahweh promised to make Ishmael a great nation. (Genesis 16/10, 17/18, 21/13. (Genesis = 1. Mos.)) Part of being a great nation includes receiving God' commandments. Ergo only nations receiving special commandments can be indicated, which must mean Arabia and Muhammad."

    Answer:

    There have through the history been many great nations without special commandments from a monotheistic god. The claim is invalid. (Though may be - there are no great nations among the Muslim ones. Some rich ones, but no great ones. Does that prove that Muhammad is out of the question?)

    We may also add what the Bible tells about Ishmael's descendants - 1. Mos. 25/16+18: "These were the sons of Ishmael, and these (their names*) are the names of the twelve tribal rulers - - -. (They*) settled in the area from Havila to Shur, near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur". Ishmael's 12 sons really became powerful like Yahweh had promised, at least locally.

    Besides, what the Bible really says is:

    (Gen. 16/10): "The angel added, 'I will so increase your (Hagar's*) descendants that they will be too numerous to count". The angel here promises they will be many, but here is no promise of power.

    (Gen. 17/18): "Abraham said to God, 'If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!' (Gen. 17/20): 'As for Ishmael, I (God*) have heard you (Abraham*): I will surely bless him: I will make him fruitful (he got 12 sons according to the Bible*) and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers (his sons became all became tribal rulers in west Sinai near the border of Egypt according to Gen. 19/16-18 - this promise fulfilled*), and I will make him a great nation (ruling 12 tribes was a great nation locally at that time - many kings only ruled one tribe or a town + its surroundings*)'". (Gen.17/21 - like Gen. 17/19 never quoted by Muslims): "But my (Yahweh's*) covenant I will establish with Isaac - - -".

    (Gen. 21/12 - never quoted by Muslims): "- - - it is through Isaac that your (Abraham's) offspring will be reckoned". (Gen. 21/13): "I (God*) will make the son (Ishmael*) of the maidservant (Hagar*) into a nation also - - -". Here it is said "a nation", not "a great nation".

    And not to forget: No omniscient god makes mistakes. The Quran is full of mistaken facts and other errors - a strong proof for that the Quran is not from a god, and thus that neither Muhammad nor Islam received commandments from any god. If he/they received commandments these in case either came from one or more humans or from dark forces - the only remaining alternatives.

    Point of relevance IX - Claim from Islam.

    Genesis (1. Mos.) 21/21:

    “While he (Ishmael*) was in the desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt”. Paran is on the Sinai Peninsula. But there also is a place with that name near Mecca (well, actually it is Faran, not Paran, but Islam has mainly switched to calling it Paran for obvious reasons - and they hardly ever mention this switching) – and the Muslims do not say that perhaps it was this Paran the Bible speaks about. They simply declare that the name proves it was this place, and that the Paran in Sinai there is no reason to talk about. It is like declaring that Stalin in all his brutality was an American because there is a town in USA named Moscow (there really is).

    But when they quote the Bible and 1. Mos. and use it for a “proof”, it is dishonesty bordering something very distasteful not also to mention 1. Mos. 25/18: “His (Ishmael’s*) descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur.” This was a very natural place, as Ishmael’s mother, Hagar, was from Egypt. It also made it easy for her to find a wife from Egypt for her son, like the Bible tells she did (1. Mos. 21/21) – whereas deep inside the Arabian peninsula, that had been quite another task.

    The Bible – which Muslims themselves use as the witness in this case – here proves with the same strength that Ishmael, his mother and his descendant had nothing to do with Mecca or Arabia. They lived in vest Sinai near the border of Egypt. (To be near the border of Egypt, it had to be in the western part of Sinai or northwards). Actually this also gives one more proof – from a source and a place in the Bible which the Muslims themselves use as a decisive witness – for that all the tales about Hagar and Ishmael living in - and Abraham therefore visiting - Mecca, just is a made up story. It also fits the fact that Abraham for long periods lived in Sinai according to the same Bible that Islam here uses for a claimed proof. And it is reasonably near Paran in Sinai.

    The claim is wrong. (It also just is one of the weak ones which you mainly meet from less educated Muslims - and in media meant for less educated Muslims.)

    Point of relevance II - NEVER mentioned by Muslims.

    John 1/26-27:
    "'I baptize with water', John replied, 'but among you stands one you do not know. He is the one who comes after me - - -". Here are two essential points: John the Baptist was talking 1) about "one who stands among you" = "one who lives now". Jesus lived then - he was just 6 months younger than John. And 2): "He is the one who comes after me". Jesus was the one who took over after John. (When it is said they did not know John's follower, it is because this was before Jesus started his work). Remember these two points further down - Muslims NEVER mention these two verses. You may also remember the facts about baptizing mentioned in the point just above.

    070 7/160b: "- - - by inspiration - - -". This word is not used in such connections in the Bible, not related to any of the Jewish prophets, included Jesus. Yahweh told he used direct speech, visions, or dreams to communicate with his prophets (4. Mos. 12/5-6). But as Muhammad claimed he got many of his verses and surahs this way, it had value for him to impress on his followers and others that this was a normal way for prophets to get information, true or not true - and thus that Muhammad was a normal prophet.

    071 8/34b: "- - - the Sacred Mosque - - -". = The Kabah mosque in Mecca. The fact that it was and is the most holy place on Earth for Allah and Muhammad, but totally irrelevant an non-interesting for Yahweh and for all the Jewish prophets, included Jesus - the place is not even mentioned in the Bible- is one more strong proof for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god, and for that Jesus and Muhammad did not belong to the same religion.

    072 8/34c: A small thought here: The Kabah is very central to Allah - his most holy place on Earth. But Yahweh does not even bother to mention neither Kabah nor Mecca. And pilgrimage to Mecca? - Jesus does not mention any kind of pilgrimage at all - and the same for all the other Jewish prophets, none of them, included Jesus, ever even whispered a wish about a hajj there. Something is seriously wrong here.

    Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus and Muhammad - if he had been a real prophet - in the same religion or line of prophets? Nope.

    073 8/75b: "- - - fight for the Faith - - -". This is not from the Bible. There is fighting in the OT, but for the nation. In NT fighting hardly is accepted at all. Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus and Muhammad in the same line of prophets? 2 imbecile questions. Incompatible with the Bible - also with the Jewish prophets before Jesus.

    074 9/7d: "- - - the Sacred Mosque - - -". The Kabah mosque in Mecca. Even though it was the most sacred place on Earth for Muhammad and for Allah, Yahweh and Jesus and all the Jewish prophets were totally uninterested in it. Kabah and its claimed holiness are one of the strong proofs for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god, and for that Jesus, the old Jewish prophets, and Muhammad were not in the same religion or serving the same god.

    075 9/19g: "- - - strive with might and mind in the cause of Allah - - -". Guess if this conflicts with the Bible! Even in the rather hard and harsh OT the wars were not for Yahweh, but for establishing and then defending a national state for the Jews, not for the religion. And In NT war is hardly an accepted thing at all. Yahweh and Allah the same god? Nope. Jesus and Muhammad in the same religion, not to mention in the same line of prophets as Jesus and older Jewish prophets? - more than nope.

    ###076 9/20c: “Those who believe, and suffer exile and strive with their might and main (= fight in raids/war*), in Allah’s cause, with their goods (= giving money to war expenses*) and their persons (= fighting personally in raids/war or terrorism - “any stratagem of war”*), have the highest rank in the sight of Allah - - -”. It is hardly worth the bother to tell that you find nothing like this in the Bible, not to mention in NT. Yahweh the same god as Allah? The old Jewish prophets, included Jesus in the same line of prophets as Muhammad? Anyone able to believe such claims either need much more knowledge or a psychiatrist. An at least 200% proof.

    ###077 9/20f: "(Warriors/terrorists*) have the highest rank in the sight of Allah". Strongly contradicted by and incompatible to the Bible, and especially NT, which says that to be the greatest, you have to be the servant of the others, and be among the last ones, etc. (f.x. Mark 9/35). This is one of the many strong proofs for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god, and for that Jesus - and the other old Jewish prophets - and Muhammad does not belong to the same line of prophets - the teachings are too fundamentally, too deep, and on too many points too different. Simply one more fundamental point where the Quran is wrong. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    *078 9/20h: “- - - they (terrorists/warriors*) are the people who will achieve (salvation)”. The very antithesis of the NT - and one more of the 100% proofs for that Yahweh is not the same god as Allah or Jesus - and the other old Jewish prophets - in the same line of prophets as Muhammad. The teachings, the moral code, etc. are too fundamentally, too deeply and on too many points far too different. And we remind you that both science and even more Islam has proved beyond any reasonable and unreasonable doubt that the Bible is not falsified, in spite of the Quran's never documented claim.

    Also: Combine this quote with Islam's slogan: "Islam is the Religion of Peace" and weep - or laugh.

    *079 9/21b: “Their (terrorists/warriors*) Lord (Allah*) doth give them glad tidings of a Mercy (that terrorists/warriors for Allah are forgiven practically any sin*) from Himself (from Allah personally*), of His good pleasure (from the fighting and murdering they have done for the good and kind and benevolent god*), and the Gardens for them, wherein are delights (earth-like riches, luxury and women*) that endures”. One more at least 110% proof for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god, and for that the Jewish prophets, not to mention Jesus, were not in the same line of prophets as Muhammad claimed to be. See 9/20h above.

    As for forgiving from Allah: See 2/187d above.

    Also: Combine this quote with Islam's slogan: "Islam is the Religion of Peace" and weep - or laugh.

    *080 9/22b: “They (terrorists/warriors*) will dwell therein (in paradise) forever. Verily (it definitely is no proved verity/truth*) in Allah’s presence is a reward, the greatest (of all)”. Warriors/terrorists are in so high esteem in the eyes of Allah, that they will be invited to live in the parts of paradise that has Allah’s presence. (In the Muslim paradise some parts are even better than others - Jesus f.x. only lives in the 2. heaven, whereas Moses was a better prophet and lives in heaven number four, and top prophets like Abraham and Muhammad of course in number seven, closest to Allah, who resides above number seven. In addition some regions of the heavens are better than others - in the heaven for ordinary Muslims, there f.x. are 4 or 6 or perhaps more gardens - Islam does not know for sure - one better than the other (just hope you, your wives and your children do not merit different gardens).

    Compared to 9/21 this may be an even more ultimate pep talk.

    ##081 9/29b: "Fight those who do not believe - - -". An extreme contradiction to the Bible - incompatible to even the hardest parts of OT. Religion never was the reason for war in OT - it was fight for land or safety - and in NT armed fighting hardly is accepted at all. Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus, the other old Jewish prophets, and Muhammad in the same line of prophets? Impossible is the only possible answer to both. One of the strong proofs.

    082 9/29m: "- - - until they (non-Muslims*) pay Jizya - - -". Strongly contradicted in NT, which says you shall give to the emperor what belongs to the emperor (the tax) and to Yahweh what belonged to Yahweh (the souls*). I.e. do not mix taxation etc. with the religion (f.x. Matt. 22/15-21). Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus, the other old Jewish prophets, and Muhammad in the same line of prophets? Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    083 9/30e: “- - - the Christians call Christ the son of God - - - (in this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old (the Jews*) used to say (wrong - Jews NEVER called Jesus the son of Yahweh*). Allah’s curse be on them: - - -”. We are back to the old facts: Jesus himself many times called God “father”. There were lots of witnesses to this. It was written down a few years later. The Quran vehemently denies it. The Quran has neither witnesses nor any other proofs. The Quran was written more than 600 years later and all the same offers only claims and statements - not one document. Muhammad had a lot to gain if Jesus was not the son of God - if Jesus is closely related to God, Muhammad obviously is not the greatest of prophets (irony; he in reality was no real prophet as he did not have the gift of being able to make prophesies - he never even claimed or pretended to have it, yes, he actually confirmed that he was "unable to see the unseen" = unable to make prophesies), and though Muslims may be right that Muhammad personally did not care all too much about money except for using it for bribes, there is no doubt that he liked power and that he spent large sums for “buying” followers (his lust for power is easy to see from the texts in the Quran and the Hadiths). The end of the quote is rather sympathetic (?!). Similar statements in 2/116 – 4/171 – 10/68 – 17/111 – 18/4 – 18/5 -19/88-89 – 23/91 – 25/2.The reason for this quote may be threefold:

    1. Muhammad’s obsession with that there only was one god.
    2. The fact that if Jesus in some way was the son of God/Yahweh, Muhammad very obviously was not the greatest of prophets.
    3. If Jesus was the son of the god, would be difficult to make people listen to Muhammad and not to the Bible – tales about falsified Bible or not.

     

    If Muhammad partly believed in his own religion, point 1 may have been the main one. If he did not – and very clearly he knew that parts of it were not true (f.x. the explanations why he could not make miracles) – parts 2 and 3 were the main ones (minding his platform of power).

    084 9/38e: There is nothing like this in the Bible - not even in the OT (not to mention NT). Yahweh and Allah the same god? Muhammad in the same line of prophets as Jesus and the other old Jewish prophets? Believe it if you are able to.

    085 9/39e: There is nothing like this in the Bible - not even in the OT (not to mention NT). Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus and the other old Jewish prophets, and Muhammad in the same line of prophets? Believe it if you are able to.

    086 9/40j: There is nothing like this in the Bible - not even in the OT (not to mention NT). Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus and the other old Jewish prophets, and Muhammad in the same line of prophets? Believe it if you are able to.

    087 9/41c: There is nothing like this in the Bible - not even in the OT (not to mention NT). Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus and the other old Jewish prophets, and Muhammad in the same line of prophets? Believe it if you are able to.

    088 9/42d: There is nothing like this in the Bible - not even in the OT (not to mention NT). Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus and the other old Jewish prophets, and Muhammad in the same line of prophets? Believe it if you are able to.

    ##089 9/44b: “Those who believe in Allah and the Last Day ask for no exemption from striving with their goods and persons (= waging war*)”. Even if you omit the fact that the Bible is about Yahweh, not about Allah, this is in strong contradiction to especially NT. Jesus and the other old Jewish prophets, and Muhammad in the same line of prophets? Believe it if you are able to.

    090 9/44d: "- - - striving with their goods and persons". This is Quran-speak for using ones wealth and risking one’s life in war for Allah - or if Allah does not exist, at least for Muhammad.

    There is nothing like this in Jesus' words - on the contrary, Jesus accepted no armed fighting. One more of the strong indications for that Jesus and Muhammad were not in the same religion - and neither were the other old Jewish prophets.

    091 9/47e: This verse mainly is a pep-talk to the warriors about the bad quality of the ones who did not want to go to war. Strongly contradicted by the Bible, and especially by NT. Jesus and Muhammad belonging to the same line of prophets? Impossible is the only possible word, because we do not know a stronger one. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    The same goes for the claim that Muhammad was in the same line of prophets as the other old Jewish ones.

    092 9/52b: “Can you see for us (Muslims*) (any fate) other than the two glorious things – (martyrdom or victory)?” A glorification of war which is an absolute contradiction to the Bible, and with a nonexistent much stronger for comparison to NT. One more of the really strong proofs for that Yahweh and Allah are different gods - if any of them exists, and for that Jesus and Muhammad are not from the same line of prophets (in addition to that Muhammad was no real prophet - he was unable to make prophesies.

    093 9/70e: "- - - came their messengers - - -". The Quran claims all nations/groups/cultures all over the world and to all times have had messengers/prophets teaching Islam - Hadiths mention the number 124ooo prophets/messengers through the times. Except for the Jewish prophets - who did not teach about Allah, but about Yahweh - neither science nor Islam has found one single trace of even one of them. If not Islam brings solid proofs - but proofs, not loose claims - we judge that this just is a made up claim.

    094 9/80a: "Whether thou (Muhammad*) ask for their forgiveness, or not (their sin is unforgivable): if you ask seventy times for their forgiveness, Allah will not forgive them - - -." Some contrast to the NT: There is no sin which is unforgivable if there is honest regret and remorse. And Jesus said: "You shall forgive seventy times seven times" (if there is real regret and remorse). The same god? - prophets in the same line of traditions? Hardly, to use an understatement.

    As for forgiving from Allah: See 2/187d above.

    095 9/83: "Never shall ye (some "bad" people*) come out (to raid or make war*) with me (Muhammad*), nor fight an enemy with me - - -". To say the very least of it: Most different from NT and its New Covenant. Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus and the other old Jewish prophets, and Muhammad in the same line of prophets? Not possible is not even the first letter or even comma of the answer.

    096 9/84aa: “Nor do thou ever pray for any of them (those that did not want to go to war*) that dies, nor stand at his grave, for they rejected Allah and (not least?*) His Messenger (Muhammad*), and died in a state of perverse rebellion.” Totally incompatible to the Bible and especially to NT. Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus and Muhammad in the same line of prophets (even if Muhammad had been a real prophet)? There only is one possible answer.

    097 9/86c: “When a surah comes down (to Muhammad*), enjoining them to believe in Allah and strive and struggle (= make war*) with His Messenger (Muhammad*) - - -". Nearly as far as possible away from the NT as it is to come. The same god? The same line of prophets? Possible to believe if you are naive.

    098 9/88aa: “But the Messenger (Muhammad*), and all those who believe with him, strive and struggle with their wealth and their persons (= wage war*): for them are (all) good things (like spoils of war, slaves, women to rape, etc.*): and it is they who will prosper”. Incompatible with the Bible, and especially with NT. One more of the proofs for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god and for that Jesus and the other old Jewish prophets, and Muhammad very far from are in the same line of prophets - even if Muhammad had been a real prophet.

    099 9/88d: "- - - strive and struggle with their wealth and their persons - - -". An expression used in the Quran rather frequently. It means to use of your wealth to enable yourself to go to war and or help Muhammad to finance his wars, plus take part in the war or raids yourself. Try to find something even remotely similar in NT. Definitely not the same god or the same line of prophets preaching.

    100 9/91i: Verse 9/91 in short says that only those with heavy reasons for staying at home when Allah - Muhammad - wants a raid or a war, were to be excused for not joining the raid or war party.

    This means it is different - and contradicting - in the extreme from the Bible, and especially from NT and the New Covenant. It simply is incompatible with especially the NT. One more heavy and 100+% proof for that Yahweh and Allah were not the same god - and Jesus and the other old Jewish prophets, and Muhammad not in the same line of prophets. (On the last point: ####Is it possible to find two characters who morally, ethically and in teaching were more different and further apart than Jesus and Muhammad? - the messenger of love versus the messenger/warlord of hate, crime, suppression and war. Besides one was a prophet or more according to both the Bible and the Quran, whereas the other even himself admitted he did not have the ability of making prophesies ("know the unseen" (7/188) or "know what is hidden" (6/50)).

    ##101 9/113a: "It is not fitting, for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray forgiveness for Pagans - - - (who are bound for Hell*)". In NT it always is permitted to pray for the lost souls - we are back to the search for f.x. "the lost lamb" and to "the 11.th hour" (Luke 15/8-10 and 15/11-31, Matt. 18/12-14, 20/8-13). Definitely Allah is not like Yahweh - and Muhammad not in the same line of prophets as Jesus and the other old Jewish prophets (if they had been, their teachings had had to be similar). And remember: Science has proved far beyond any even unreasonable doubt that the Bible and especially the NT is not falsified in spite of Muhammad's never proved claims - may be some mistakes, but no falsifications. The best proof for this is Islam: If one single real falsification had been found, Islam had screamed about it to every living being on Earth, included rats and worms. No such scream has ever been heard.

    As for forgiving from Allah: See 2/187d above.

    ####102 9/113d: "It is not fitting, for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray forgiveness for Pagans, even though they be of kin - - -". This cynical sentence tells a few megabytes about the Quran, about Muhammad, and about Islam - not to mention about the Quran's and Islam's moral code. Even if this was the only difference between the Bible and the Quran, this alone had been a 100% proof for that Yahweh and Allah is not the same god and Jesus and the other old Jewish prophets, and Muhammad not in the same religion or line of prophets.

    Another point is that to forgive - or for that case to punish or reward or fulfill prayers - means for Allah to change his Plan considering the sinner/person, something which according to the Quran nobody and nothing can make him do. See 2/187d above.

    103 9/114b: "And Abraham prayed for his father's forgiveness - - -". This gives a meaning if Yahweh was Abram/Abraham's god. But what is the idea with prayers in Islam, if it is true like the Quran many places states that Allah predestines everything, and predestines it according to his Plan, which nobody and nothing can change? If nothing can change what he already has predestined, also prayers cannot change anything.

    104 9/114d: “- - - he (Abraham - said by Islam to be a Muslim*) dissociated himself from him (Abraham’s claimed pagan father*)”. Beware that everybody of any positive consequence whom the Quran “borrows” from the Bible, is transformed to be a Muslim in the Quran - anyone, even Jesus and Adam and Noah (the 5. of the most central 5 claimed Muslim prophets in Islam) and Joseph, and Moses and all the prophets - and Abraham.

    Be no friend even with your parents if they are not Muslims! (This is a quite normal demand in extreme religious sects - the leaders want full control.)

    This is one of the rather sad points of the Quran - even a central point: Islam shall mean so much to you, that if even your closest family - children or parents - do not obey you and become Muslims: Leave them and forget them. Fanaticism shall be the norm in Islam. Similar things are said more places in the Quran - Noah should f.x. let his son drown, because the son was no Muslim (which Noah was said to be!!). A nice and benevolent and human religion.

    Only Islam really can be your closest friend. Nothing and nobody else - except Muhammad - counts.

    The irony here is that according to the Bible (1. Mos. 11/31-32) the two stayed together for many, many years. (And any honest scientist will tell you that according to normal rules, the Bible will be reckoned to be more reliable than the Quran.)

    105 9/118c: "- - - the three who were left behind - - -". The story of these three (see 9/118a above) who did not go to war, and not least Muhammad's reaction to them, proves 100+% that Muhammad did not belong in the same line of prophets as Jesus - their fundamentals were too different by far - and also that Islam is very far from the teachings of Jesus.

    106 9/120a: “It was not fitting for the people of Medina and the Bedouin Arabs of the neighborhood, to refuse to follow Allah’s Messenger (to wage war - it refers to the expedition to Tabuk*) - - - “. But it is fitting for Islam to steal and rob and kill end enslave and suppress.

    And it was “fitting” to make Muhammad a powerful warlord.

    What then about “let there be no compulsion in religion”? - or about religious wars? - not to mention what about honesty and "do unto others like you want others do unto you"? - the basic law behind all real inter-human morality. Not to mention: Can Jesus and Muhammad be in the same line of prophets - (they in case have to preach approximately the same truths, the same basic ideas and the same moral code). No answer necessary - and the same goes for "is Yahweh the same god as Allah"?

    107 9/120d: “It was not fitting for (them - see 9/120a just above*) to refuse to follow Allah’s Messenger, nor to prefer their own lives to his - - -”. Muhammad demanded blood and lives. According to the Bible Jesus gave his life. The same line of prophets? Yahweh and Allah the same god? No-one with real knowledge is able to believe that - except some Muslims (religiously blind = one who believes not because of proofs, but in spite of proofs).

    108 9/120k: "- - - trod paths to raise the ire of the Unbelievers - - -". One more clear indication for that the Bible and NT, Jesus on one side and Muhammad and the Quran on the other are too far apart to be from the same god or the same line of prophets - this sentence is the very opposite of Jesus' teachings of love.

    #109 10/2c: "- - - inspiration - - -". This word is nowhere mentioned in the Bible in connection with information from the god to a prophet. The Bible clearly states that such contacts were made by dreams, vision or direct contact. Muhammad, however, claimed both that he got much of his messages from Allah via "inspiration" and that this was a normal way for the earlier prophets, included the Biblical ones, to get such messages. Inspiration is a normal part of human intellectual life, and the Quran never tells how Muhammad in case saw the difference between his own inspirations and ones claimed to be from Allah. "Inspiration" also is ever so easy to fake.

    110 10/78d: "- - - in order that you (Moses*) and your brother (Aaron*) may have greatness in the land (Egypt*)?" YA1463 comments: "Notice how they (Pharaoh Ramses II and his men*) attribute evil motives to the men of Allah, motives of ambitions and lust for power - - -. The same device was used against Al Mustafa (another name for Muhammad*)". For one thing this kind of insinuations from Ramses II is not mentioned in the Bible. But more interesting is that Yusuf Ali here turns the facts (the only perhaps facts are in the Bible, as the Quran and all its mistakes are not from any god, and thus not from any reasonably reliable source) upside down: Like so many places the history of real or claimed historical prophets were changed to become parallels to Muhammad's own life and story, to make him look like the old prophets, and thus a normal prophet.

    Another point is that for an open mind it is ever so easy to see from the Quran that "Al Mustafa" wanted power. Respect and power - and women. There also is an extra point here: The so-called Mosaic religion never was a proselyting one. And for nearly 2ooo years Abraham and his descendants never did much proselyting (not until Jesus, who ordered it before he left). Islam is a strongly proselyting religion - even by means of strong compulsions and sometimes even death warnings and murder to force people stay or become Muslims. This very central difference - a historical fact - is one more proof for that Abraham and his descendants (f.x. Moses) never were Muslims. This on top of that neither science nor Islam has found traces from a god like Allah, a religion like Islam, a book like the Quran, or prophets preaching Islam before 610 AD, when Muhammad started his proselyting, and on top of the fact that Abraham did not have camels, and thus could not go back and forth between Canaan/Sinai and Mecca like the Quran claims. These are facts from history. Also as far back as history goes, it tells that the Jews had the god Yahweh and the Mosaic religion, not the very different Allah and Islam or similar.

    111 10/98a: "Why was there not a single township (among those We (Allah*) warned) who believed". Yes, this is one of the points in the Quran which is not possible to believe: When you see the effects of two handfuls of named prophets included Jesus and (claimed) Muhammad, and then are told that 124ooo others left not one single trace anywhere or any time on Earth, ######the probability for that this claim is true, is zero. ######Add to this the fact that neither science nor Islam have found even the smallest trace from a religion like Islam or a god like Muhammad's Allah anywhere or any time in the world, and you have the correct answer: There never was an Islam or a monotheistic Allah before 610 AD when Muhammad started his mission.

    112 10/98b: "- - - the people of Jonah - - -". The Quran here refers to the people of Nineveh, which far from was a township, but a large city - the capital of Assyria. Besides according to the Bible they were not Jonah's people - Jonah was a Jew, the people Assyrians. (But the Quran claims that prophets were sent to their own people, and thus claim "the People of Jonah", as this strengthens Muhammad's claim about being a normal prophet - an Arab among his own people.)

    #113 10/109c: "- - - inspiration - - -". It may be worth mentioning that in spite of Muhammad's as normal never documented claims about the opposite, Yahweh in the Bible never uses transfer of information by inspiration. The word is not even mentioned in such a connection in the Bible - not once. Yahweh only used direct contact, visions or dreams. (But as Muhammad claimed he got much of his "information"(?) via inspiration, he many places in the Quran claims - without documentation - that also the old Biblical prophets got information that way. A claim which might make Muhammad look more like a normal prophet.)

    One more indication for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god.

    114 11/17f: "- - - the Book of Moses before it (before the Quran*) - - -". Comment YA1512: "- - - the Holy Quran which is compared to the original Revelation given to Moses - - -". The Quran and Islam claims that all prophets of the old got a book similar to the Quran (not necessarily identical in all details, but similar - and the difference cannot have been big, as they and the Quran all were copies of the "Mother Book" mentioned in 13/39, 43/4 and 85/21-21, and revered by the god in his Heaven). There are not many knowledgeable non-Muslims who would get the idea that Moses got something similar to the Quran. Islam needs strong proofs here. The same goes for all the other Jewish prophets, included Jesus. We have not heard about one non-Muslim who knows both those books, who believe in such a claim. (Most of them do not even laugh when this is mentioned - it is too far out even for laughing.)

    115 11/25c: "I (Noah*) have come to you with a Clear Warning - - -". Noah here mimics Muhammad - like the Quran tells more or less all claimed prophets in the book does. Whether the tales are true or not, they have the effect that Muhammad's words seems to be normal for prophets, and thus "tell" that Muhammad was a normal prophet.

    116 11/26a: "That ye (the people of Noah*) serve none but Allah - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which says that the involved god was Yahweh. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    117 11/27a: Noah got similar reception like Muhammad in Mecca = Muhammad's reception is normal (this was before he gained power) for a prophet = Muhammad is a normal prophet. Good for his few followers to "know". (There are many stories like this in the Quran - all prophets are more or less parallel stories to Muhammad's up to the time when the verse was told to his followers.)

    118 11/27d: "- - - nor do we (Noah's contemporaries*) see that any follow thee (Noah*) but the meanest among us - - -". This means Noah had followers according to the Quran. Which again means they were taken on board the ark, like mentioned in 11/40 - a prophet could not leave good Muslims to drown. In the Bible only Noah and his family - 8 persons - were on board. AND NB: In 11/40 also the Quran tells that only the animals + not even the whole of Noah's family were to enter the ark. The followers were ditched?

    But by adding poor followers, Muhammad got the picture of Noah's situation to be a close parallel to his own in 621 AD. Ergo poor followers in the beginning were a sign for Muhammad being a real prophet. Psychologically a good story to tell Muhammad's follower They are so obvious to see, that we only point to some of them.

    119 11/29a: "I (in this case Noah*) ask you for no wealth in return (for my preaching*) - - -". This is identical to one of Muhammad's slogans or claims. Muhammad claimed to be of an old line of prophets which included among others Noah, and then his words gained more weight if the old prophets experienced and said the same as he - an "indication" for that he was what he claimed. That he in reality demanded much wealth (for bribes) and power "for Allah" and lots of women, is another story. This verse also is one of the many which has no similarity with what is told in the Bible.

    120 11/32c: "- - - bring upon us (non-Muslims*) what thou (Noah*) what thou threaten us with - - -". = Bring us proof. Like so many other stories about prophets or claimed prophets in the Quran an exact parallel to Muhammad's situation, and thus a "confirmation" of that Muhammad was a prophet like the old ones. But Muhammad never was able to prove anything - in contrast to f.x. Noah.

    121 11/37a: "- - - inspiration - - -". Muhammad claimed to get the verses of the Quran by inspiration, and it had value to impress on his followers that also older prophets got information that way, as it meant that Muhammad's claimed way of getting verses, was a normal one for prophets. The word is not used in such a connection anywhere in the Bible. One more indication for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god.

    #122 11/38: (A11/57 – in 2008 edition A11/61): Noah said to the surrounding people: “If you ridicule us now (for building the ark*), we (in our turn) can look down on you with ridicule likewise”. But according to Islam Noah was a prophet, and it is impossible for Islam to think that a prophet may be human enough to ridicule or scoffing anyone (though read the Quran and you will see Muhammad did so many times). #####Therefore the text must be wrong and in reality mean something else – yet another place where Islamic scholars say the text in the Quran must be wrong, though a small wrong this time. Noah must mean “ignorant” – “If you think us ignorant now, we think you ignorant who do not accept our story” to make a longer quotation short (Zamakhshari, Baghawi). Honestly it may be enough confusing to understand unclear text, but one also has to “mend” clear text Islam does not like. Allah really is clumsy when he is speaking.

    Another point: As Muhammad ridiculed lots of non-Muslims, these arguments then should be one more indication for that Muhammad was no real prophet.

    123 11/40e: "Embark therein (in the ark*) - - - (included*) the Believers". This tells that not only Noah and his family were on board, but also some followers. This contradicts the Bible, where only Noah and his family were there - included all his 3 sons (in the Quran one is lost). On the other hand, by introducing some poor followers (11/27) it was possible for Muhammad to make Noah's situation before the flood a parallel to his own in Mecca in 621 AD when this surah was released, and thus indicate that Muhammad's situation was rather normal for prophets.

    124 11/70b: "- - - the people of Lut (= Lot in the Bible*)". Here it is meant the people in Sodom and Gomorrah - it is not said here, but according to the Bible - 1. Mos. 19/1 - Lot was in Sodom. (Nobody knows exactly where the two towns lay. Some traditions place them where the Dead Sea is now - an unlikely explanation as the Dead Sea is old. The Quran places them near the shore of that sea - which may be correct - - - if they ever existed. But what is clear both in the Bible and in the Quran in spite of these words, is that those people were NOT the people of Lot. He was the nephew of Abraham and born in Ur in Chaldea in South Iraq. He left Ur as a boy or youth together with his grandfather Terah (Azar in the Quran) and his Uncle Abram - later renamed Abraham - and lived for years in Haran in North Iraq until he and Abram continued to Canaan (now approximately Israel), where they settled in Negev. All this is according to the Bible (1. Mos. 11/31-32 + 12/1-8), but not contradicted by the Quran. They later split because their flocks of animals needed wide areas for grass - Abraham stayed in Canaan (now approximately Israel), whereas Lot moved further east to the valley of Jordan, which may fit well with placing Sodom and Gomorrah near the Dead Sea, as this sea is in the southern end of the Jordan Valley.

    But what remains is that Lot was a stranger to the area and to the towns of Sodom and Gomorrah. It also is very clear both from the Bible and the Quran that he had not become a naturalized member of the local people - it is clear from the story both in the Bible and in the Quran that he was reckoned to be a stranger. But this sentence is necessary to make Lot confirm to the Quran's claims that Allah sent the prophets (in the Quran Lot is a prophet - not in the Bible) "to their own people". (Claims which are contradicted even in the Quran by the Chaldean (Iraq) Abram/Abraham working in Canaan (Israel), the Canaanite Jew and claimed prophet Joseph working in Egypt, the Egyptian Jew Moses working for 40 years in Midian, likely in Sinai (but the Bible's Midian also may have been in Sudan - one does not know for sure), by the Israeli prophet Jonah working in Nineveh in Assyria in what is now part of Iraq (this is accepted by the Quran) - - - and by the Chaldean Lot living and perhaps working as a prophet near the Dead Sea).

    125 11/78a: "- - - his (Lot's*) people - - -". The people of Sodom (outside which it is likely Lot lived just then) and Gomorrah were not the people of Lot. For one thing he was a foreigner from far away (Ur of the Chaldeans in what is now South Iraq, and it is likely Sodom and Gomorrah - if they are not fiction - were settled near the Dead Sea), and for another it is very clear from both the Bible and from the Quran that he was not naturalized into that culture or people. (But the Quran needs this remark to be able to claim that prophets were sent to their own people, like the Arab Muhammad to Arabs).

    126 11/78b: "- - - his (Lot's*) people came rushing towards him - - -". Not Lot's people. See 11/68c above.

    127 11/78d: "(Lot said*): Here are my daughters (if ye marry) - - -". Here the puritanism has got the better of the translator - the circumstances clearly tell it was not for marriages. Besides: How could Lot's 2 daughters (1. Mos. 19/30) marry one or two whole towns?

    The real reason for this twist in the Quran, is likely to be that Lot according to that book was a prophet, and no prophet could be so immoral as to offer his daughters for unmarried sex. Wishful thinking seems to be more central than honest translation.

    128 11/84d: "- - - Shu'ayb - - -". To place the special Arab claimed prophets chronologically, it seems that Islam claims the succession was this (YA1064): Noah (not Arab prophet, though*), Hud, Salih, Abraham (not Arab), (Lot/Lut (not Arab), and Shu'ayb. Shu'ayb is said to be 4 generations after Lot, though we do not find this specified in the Quran, which in case means also he was before Moses around 1375 - 1335 BC. Lot of course was a contemporary of Abraham - his nephew. Abraham lived - if he is not fiction - ca. 1800-2000 BC according to science, which means that Shu'ayb (if not fiction) lived about one century later or a bit more, BC. This makes impossible the Muslim claim that Shu’ayb was identical to the father-in-law of Moses, Jethro. Science tells that if the Exodus ever took place, it happened ca. 1235 BC, and if the Bible is correct, Moses then was 80 years, which means he lived from ca.1315 BC to ca. 1195 BC (he became 120 years according to the Bible). There in case are some 300 - 500 years between Shu'ayb and Moses (and Jethro).

    1. Adam (and Eve) - unclear when.
    2. Noah - unclear when, likely 3ooo - 4ooo BC.
    3. Hud - unknown when, but the first of the 3 claimed Arab prophets of the old. Long before Moses.
    4. Salih - unknown when. Well before Moses.
    5. Abraham and Lot - around 2ooo - 1800 BC according to science.

    6. Shu'ayb - 4 generations (some 120 years) after Lot = roughly around 1700 BC. The last one of the 3 claimed Arab prophets of the old.
    7. Moses - Exodus according to science was around 1335 BC, which means he was in Midian ca. 1375 to 1335 BC. If he was 80 when Exodus started and lived 40 years more like the Bible says, he lived from ca. 1315 BC to ca. 1195 BC.

     

    All prophets told about in the Quran, had experiences like Muhammad's. Hardly a coincidence - it "told" his followers and others that Muhammad's problems were "normal" for prophets, and thus that he was a normal prophet (true or not true).

    But a serious problem here is that the information this time line is built on, does not fit the few known facts (another problem is that when you search Internet for facts about Hud/'Ad, Salih/Thamud, Shu'ayb/Madyan/People of the Wood the articles are so dominated by the intention to make the claims in the Quran sound correct, that it is difficult to see what are really facts and what are "adjusted facts" - adjusted by wishful thinking). What seems to be facts, are that if the 'Ad people ever existed, they lived in an area named Ubar in the southeast of the Arab peninsula (somewhere near where Saudi Arabia, Oman, and Yemen meet today). When is unclear, but before the Thamud. We have found no reliable mentioning of them in reliable history.

    The Thamud is said to have lived in al-Hirj, a mountainous area very roughly halfway between Damascus and Mecca. A people named Thamud are mentioned in historical sources, but the very oldest one is connected to the Assyrian king Sargon II and dated to ca. 715 BC - 500 years later than Moses. This people disappeared from historical sources around 600-400 BC. Islam wants their disappearance to have been connected to volcanic eruptions, but we have been unable to find confirmation for volcanic activity in that area around 600-400 BC (volcanism in Arabia mainly stopped some 400ooo years ago).

    Then finally there is the last of the 3 specific Arab claimed prophets, Shu'ayb. He in the Quran is connected to Madyan and to "the People of the Wood". This is somewhat complicated. For one thing it is unclear if "the Midianites" and "the People of the Wood" were the same or two different people. For another it is unclear where the Bible's Midian was situated. Originally we like many others believed the Bible's Midian and the Quran's Madyan were the same place - in the north-west of the Arab peninsula. But further studies have made us correct this. There are two possible explanations for the Bible's Midian: Moses' Midian may have been to the east of Egypt or to the south of that country - it is not specified in the Bible whether Moses went east or south. If he went south (= along the Nile valley where it was easy to find a living), his Midian was in Sudan. If he went east, it was somewhere east of Egypt. And then the question is: Was the Bible's Midian just the name of a place somewhere, or did it refer to the land of the Midianites (Midian was the 4. of Abraham's 6 sons with his second wife, Keturah - 1. Mos. 25/2). If it was just a geographical name it may have been anywhere. But if it referred to "the land of the Midianites", it was on the Sinai peninsula. If Moses found a Midian to the East of Egypt, this last explanation is the likely one for 2 reasons: For one thing this Midian was on his way east and much closer than Madyan in Arabia, and for another: The Midianites were related to the Jews and a natural place for a fleeing Jew to settle. And what is absolutely sure is that as the Thamud according to history seems to have existed from perhaps 800 or more BC to around 600-400 BC, and the Midianites of the Quran lived later according to that book, it is totally impossible that Shu'ayb could be identical to Moses' father-in-law, Jethro, like many Muslims claim - Jethro lived around 1350 BC.

    129 11/120d: "- - - with it (stories from claimed or documented prophets*) We make firm thy (Muhammad's/Muslims'*) heart - - -". As mentioned many/all of the stories - true or twisted or made up - were parallels to Muhammad's situation and showed them that what happened to Muhammad, was normal for prophets - "ergo" Muhammad was a normal prophet with normal problems. How true the stories were, may be a question, but they worked.

    130 12/83c: "- - - may be Allah will bring them (Joseph and Benjamin*) back to me (Jacob*) - - -". The Quran some places makes it clear that Jacob did not believe Joseph was dead - a prophet like Jacob could not be wrong. In the Bible it is clear Jacob believed Joseph was dead (1. Mos. 42/38 - Jacob says Benjamin is the only son of Rachel left). (Just for the record: When 1.Mos. 43/14 says "your other brother and Benjamin", it is meant Simeon and Benjamin.)

    131 12/100a: (A12/95 – in 2008 edition A12/98, A12/99): “- - - and they Jacob and his family*) fell down in prostration, (all) before him (Joseph*) - - -.” Here is a big conundrum inside a riddle surrounded by a puzzle for Islam. A pious prophet like Jacob impossibly could prostrate himself before a human. And an as pious prophet like Joseph impossibly could have accepted it. Something has to be wrong in the text. This even though the Arab text “wa-kharru lahu sudjdjadah” literally means “- - - and they fell down before him in (alternatively “like in”) prostration (or “praying to him” according to the Swedish copy)”. Islam has no good explanations that we have found. According to ‘Abd Allah ibn ‘Abbas the “him” in “before him” must refer to Allah – which it most clearly does not do. Razi explains that Joseph’s dream was not fully fulfilled, etc. Actually here the text is very clear – and the only thing Muslim scholars agree on, is that the literal meaning must be wrong, and this without having a good alternative meaning.

    132 12/100c: “- - - and they Jacob and his family*) fell down in prostration, (all) before him (Joseph*) - - -.” This or something similar is not to be found in the Bible.

    133 12/102c: "- - - by inspiration - - -". Muhammad claimed he got his verses by inspiration - at least a large part of them. A convenient claim - and impossible to check. It is symptomatic that the word is not used one single time in the Bible in connection with giving information from Yahweh to his prophets. (There you only find direct contact, visions and dreams).

    134 12/109b: “Nor did We (Allah*) send before thee (Muhammad*) (as Messengers) any but men - - -.” Contradicted by the Bible which also tells there were female prophets (the Bible do not use "messenger" as a title - every one of them were "prophets" or some places "seers"), like Miriam (the sister of Moses), Huldah (2. Chr. 34/22), and Anna (Luke 2/36). One more difference between Yahweh and Allah. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    135 13/30c: "- - - a People before whom (long since) have (other) People (gone and) passed away - - -". Comment (A13/52): "- - - an indirect reference to the continuity of prophetic revelation before and up to the time of the Last Prophet, Muhammad - - -". But the fact is that such an continuity did and do not exist - it came to an end - at least for the time being - with Jesus. There are so big differences between the teachings and the morality, etc., of the teachings in the Jewish tradition of prophets, which here is referred to, and those of Muhammad, that he is not in the same tradition as the Jewish ones, included Jesus. This in addition to that Muhammad was no real prophet - he was unable to make prophesies - and just "borrowed" that impressive and imposing title (which may be the reason why he so often used the less imposing title messenger).

    136 13/30g: "- - - what We (Allah*) send down (the Quran*) unto thee (Muhammad*) by inspiration - - -". To get - or claim to get - revelations by inspiration, is very convenient. Nobody can check on it and nobody can check from where the claimed inspirations come. Add a man with questionable morality according to Islamic books (read the reality, not the flowering words), and one starts thinking. But it is remarkable that the Biblical prophets never got messages by means of inspiration - in stark contradiction to what Muhammad claimed - - - as normal without ever documenting his claims. The Biblical prophets god their messages by direct contact, visions, or dreams. Another indication for that Yahweh and Allah were not the same god.

    137 13/38b: "We (Allah*) did send Messengers before thee (Muhammad*), and appointed for them wives and children - - -". We quote A1861: "All prophets of whom we have any detailed knowledge, except one (Jesus*), had wives and children (= Muhammad was a normal prophet also in this way - well, extra normal with 36 known women). But this claim needs a selective use of the expression "detailed knowledge". Not all prophets are known to have had wives - f.x. it is unlikely John the Baptist had a wife - and for many that situation simply is not mentioned in the Bible. Also the Quran does not mention any wives for the claimed Arab prophets Hud, Salih, and Shu'ayb. Use the expression "detailed knowledge" selectively enough, and you get the answer you want.

    But more dishonest her - a Kitman (lawful half-truth) - is that one does not mention that none - not one - of the prophets in the Bible had a big harem (beware that f.x. David and Solomon primarily are kings, but not actively reckoned among the prophets in the Bible - though f.x. David is in some of the lists of Jewish prophets). Of claimed professional prophets only Muhammad had - science knows the name of 35 women who for shorter or longer time belonged to his harem (in addition there was Khadijah, but she died before he got a harem). Also in this way Muhammad does not belong in the line of Yahweh's prophets in Israel.

    ####138 13/39b: “- - - with Him (Allah*) is the Mother of the Book - - -", (the presumed original book of which the Quran - AND THE CLAIMED BOOKS OF ALL THE EARLIER PROPHES/MESSENGERS (INCLUDED CLAIMED PROPHETS AND MESSENGERS FROM BEFORE MAN LEARNT HOW TO READ) - is said to be an exact copy*).

    139 14/1g: "- - - by the leave of their (Muslims'*) Lord (Allah*) - - -". We quote YA1870: "It is insisted that every Prophet speaks not from himself but from Allah". Except for that the Bible tells it was Yahweh, this may be correct - but only for real prophets. For false prophets this perhaps rule is not valid. Muhammad was no real prophet - he had not the gift of being able to make prophesies, not to mention the fact that there was no god behind his claimed holy book and all its mistakes - and might have been a false one (all the errors, etc. in the Quran indicates this - in addition to his inability to "see the unseen (3/144, 6/50,7/188,10/20, 27/65, 46/9, 72/26, 81/24)" which indicates the same.).

    140 14/1h: "- - - by the leave of their (Muslims'*) Lord (Allah*) - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which says everybody’s Lord/god is Yahweh, not Allah. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    141 14/10j: "Ye (the claimed prophets*) are no more than humans, like ourselves! We wish to turn us away from the (gods) our fathers used to worship: then bring us some clear authority". Do you see the close parallel to Muhammad's own position in 621-622 AD when this surah was released? There are dozens of such parallels to Muhammad in the Quran - each story about a claimed prophet or good man in the book parallels Muhammad's situation at the time of releasing the relevant surah. This simply is Muhammad's way of explaining away for his followers his difficulties and problems with being accepted by most people, and at the same time "documenting" that such problem were normal for prophets, and thus "proving" that Muhammad was a normal prophet. To quote Mr. Stalin: "Once is coincidence, twice is suspicious, thrice is proof". Muhammad did not make such parallels twice or thrice, but more or less every time he told tales about earlier real or claimed prophet (with a partly exception for Jesus - he was too special and too well known). Would a god need to prove himself or his prophet in such a clumsy way? - then who made the Quran?

    142 14/10-17: One of the many stories claiming that more or less all former prophets had had similar problems like Muhammad (this was in 621-622 AD before Muhammad started gaining power). Such stories were confirmations to his followers and alibis for his claims towards others that he was a "bona fide" prophet. As most of these stories ended with that the opponents were severely punished, they also were pep-talks for his followers, and it was good for their moral to "know" the "enemy" will be punished, whereas "we" go to Paradise. True or not - it often is what you believe which counts for many. There are many stories like this in the Quran - they are easy for you to find. Also see 14/10j above.

    143 14/11e: "It is not for us (claimed earlier prophets*) to bring an authority except as Allah permits". Muhammad never was able to prove one atom of his central claims. Here in his tale the situation was the same for claimed former prophets = Muhammad's inability to prove anything was normal for prophets - at least this is Muhammad's not proved claim. Also see 9/98b above. But here he keeps an opening open: If Allah will. Which explains why some Jewish prophets included Jesus and even f.x. Paul made miracles - Allah did it.

    144 14/37ca: "- - - Sacred House - - -". Kabah Mosque in Mecca. One of the really strong proofs for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god - and Jesus and the other Biblical prophets not in the same religion as Muhammad. For Allah this is the most holy place on Earth. For Yahweh the place is so totally without any meaning and so totally non-interesting that it is not even mentioned in the Bible - and not one of the old Biblical prophets, included Jesus, ever uttered the smallest wish even for a visit or a hajj there. If Yahweh and Allah had been the same god, Kabah had had the same value for both of them. And if the old prophets, included Jesus, had had books similar to the Quran like Islam claims, they had known about Kabah and Mecca and the duty of making at least one hajj - pilgrimage - there.

    Like said: The Kabah is one of the strong proofs for that things are seriously wrong in the Quran. This even more so as archeology indicates it was built in the 5. century AD.

     

    145 15/71b: “There are my daughters - - -". Muslim scholars refuse to believe Lot said this. According to the Quran Lot was a prophet (not so in the Bible), and a prophet simply could not say anything like that (it would in case stain the title of "prophet" and thus also Muhammad.)

    ####"Facts are facts only if we want to believe them - and the other way around". Some reliable religion and scholars!

    146 15/72b: "- - - (O Prophet) - - -". It is not 100% clear to whom the word "prophet" refers, as also Lot according to the Quran was a prophet. But it seems that Allah is telling this story to Muhammad, and that it thus refers to him. But Muhammad was no real prophet. The definition of a prophet was a person who could see at least parts of the unseen, and thus a person who:

    1. Has the gift of and close enough connection to a god for making prophesies.
    2. Makes prophesies which always or at least mostly come true.
    3. Makes so frequent and/or essential prophesies, that it is a clear part of his mission.

     

    147 16/2b: “He (Allah*) sent down His angels with inspiration (“ruh”*) - - -.” It may here be worth reminding you that Yahweh did not use inspiration when giving messages to his prophets - he either used direct contact, visions or dreams (4. Mos. 12/6-8). Yahweh and Allah the same god? No.

    148 16/43e: "- - - inspiration - - -". A word hardly mentioned in the Bible, and not at all connected to messages received by prophets. The Biblical prophets got their messages either directly, via visions, or via dreams (4. Mos. 12/6). But as Muhammad claimed he received his verses and surahs that way, it had value for him to impress on all others that also earlier prophets normally got their information that way, and that Muhammad thus was a normal receiver of such messages from the god. You thus will find these words several places in the Quran.

    #149 16/44a: (We (Allah*) sent them (the Biblical prophets*)) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophesies - - -". But here is something wrong: The Quran/Islam claims the prophets of the old - like Muhammad - got a copy of the age-old and unchangeable "Mother Book". But the Quran contains no real prophesies (which the Bible did). If some books contained prophesies and the Quran not, they cannot all be copies of the claimed eternal "Mother Book". (Now, the Quran also claims that "for each time a book" - that the book had to change because time changed - but we have never seen an explanation for how they then all could be copies of one eternal and unchangeable claimed "Mother Book".

    150 16/63a: "By Allah - - -". The word "By" indicates an oath. Allah is swearing by himself - a bit special thing to do. Or is it Muhammad who is talking in the Quran again? - a book claimed to be very ancient and revered by the god in his Heaven?

    Also remember that according to Jesus you preferably shall not swear at all - and if you all the same do, you are obliged to keep it. For Allah and Muhammad swearing mainly is ok, and it also mainly is ok to break an oath - pay expiation if necessary. Hardly the same gods, and Jesus and Muhammad definitely not representing the same religion or line of prophets.

    151 16/121e: "- - - guided him (Abraham*) - - -". Muhammad claimed that the claimed and the perhaps real prophets of the old all had got their copy of the claimed "Mother Book" in Heaven - similar to Muhammad's copy, the Quran - as guidance. But no book similar to the Quran is a reliable guidance for anyone - too much is wrong.

    152 16/122b: "- - - he (Abraham*) will be in the ranks of the Righteous". After Muhammad, Abraham is the most central of the prophets in Islam. Moses or Jesus may be number three - and there also is Noah with a good standing in Islam. Abraham is mentioned in Hadiths to live in the 7. Heaven (it is not explained how he ended there before the Day of Doom - like the others Muhammad met on his trip through the heavens), where of course also Muhammad will end - and all his women and children if they qualified for that high a heaven. Yes, and plus his houris - we wonder how it was decided which heaven they qualified for.)

    153 17/60e: "- - - it only increased their (non-Muslims'*) inordinate transgression". This is the "explanation". But the real reason may have been that they saw things were wrong - it is not difficult to see in the Quran, and it is claimed that the old prophets had similar books".

    154 17/77a: “(This was Our (Allah’s*)) way with the messengers We sent before thee (Muhammad*) - - -". Wrong. None of the known prophets had an incident leading up to a possible punishment like the "satanic Verses" had merited if Allah had been real - not even Jonah or the claimed prophets known only from the Quran.

    155 17/86d: "- - - by inspiration - - -". This was how Muhammad claimed he got many of his claimed verses and surahs. A most convenient way - impossible for anyone to check and easy to add or subtract if one wanted to. The word is not mentioned for such things connected to the prophets in the Bible - Yahweh only used direct contact, visions, and dreams. One more indication for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god.

    .

    156 17/88b: "- - - Jinns - - -". Originally figures from Arab pagan religion, folklore and fairy tales – and not mentioned by any other prophet throughout times, even though they are pretty active and part of what Islam claims is the same basic religion as the Jewish and the Christian one (the claim is wrong, though - the basic ideals are too different, and the same for the two gods). According to the Quran they are made from fire (or hot wind) and are distinct from spirits. An Arabism (see 4/13d above) as far as we have found out they only exists in the folklore in and around Arabia.

    157 17/94d: "What kept men (typical the Quran - not women*) back from Belief when Guidance (the Quran*) came to them, was nothing but this: they said, 'Has Allah sent ###a man (like us) to be (His) Messenger?" Better for Muhammad to say this, than to admit the real reason. But this is one of his weaker ways of explaining problems away, as all Jews and Christians and many others knew that all the prophets in the Bible - perhaps except Jesus - were normal humans.

    "A man like us", could not make miracles or prophesies - and especially as Muhammad himself in the Quran confirmed both that he only was a man and that he was unable to make miracles or "see the unseen (3/144, 6/50,7/188,10/20, 27/65, 46/9, 72/26, 81/24)" = unable to make prophesies.

    158 18/4d: "(It is wrong*) that Allah hath begotten a son”. Well, we are back to the old facts that Jesus according to the Bible - written on the background of thousands of witnesses/listeners and thus difficult to falsify (and strongly proved not falsified by both science and Islam) - many times called God/Yahweh Father (Yahweh is called the father of Jesus at least 204 times in the Bible, and Jesus the son of Yahweh at least 89 times - many of those cases by Jesus himself, a very reliable person also according to the Quran), that humble humans - f.x. Muhammad - are unable to understand completely the ways and wishes of a god (may be Yahweh wanted a son for some reason), and that Islam has to deny that Jesus was the son of Yahweh, in order to make (or pretend?) Mohammad the greatest prophet. Besides: Where are Islam’s proofs? - in spite of Islam’s glorifying of blind belief - a psychologically wise slogan when all they have are doubtful and at least partly wrong texts from a doubtful, self proclaimed “prophet” of at least as doubtful character - it is naïve in the extreme to believe blindly in so serious matter as eternity. If your chosen religion is a made up one - which every blind believer in every religion believes just their religion is not - where do you end if there is a next life? - and what if there is a real religion that you have not found, because of your blindness. Perhaps all religions are made up and just is a result of an inner longing in some people for something absolute (science have found that many weak - and some stronger - souls have such a longing in their genes or psyche - one of the genes active here is the gene VMAT2, according to The American Institute of Cancer Research, who stumbled across it in their research for cancer genes), but in that case one at least does not have to make life as miserable for ones fellow men (and even more for the women) as Islam preaches - hate, rape, stealing, enslavement, and war.

    #159 18/5a: “No knowledge have they (the Christians*) of such a thing (that Yahweh may have a son*)”. Wrong. There is a lot of information in the Bible. Now of course Muhammad, the Quran, and Islam all declare that the Bible has been falsified - they have to, as that was the only way for Muhammad to explain the differences between his “quoting” the Bible and quoting of religious legends, fairy tales, etc., and the Bible proper (it also is common among religious sects or religions to say that other sects or religions have misunderstood or falsified information), and also between Islam and Christianity. But science clearly has shown that the Bible is not falsified - and Islam has shown it even clearer by not finding one single proved falsification in some 45ooo relevant manuscripts from before 610 AD.

    There also is the fact that if Jesus was the son of the god, nobody would believe that Muhammad was the greatest ever of prophets. The claim that Jesus was such a son therefore undermined Muhammad's platform of power. Muhammad's drive for reducing Jesus may have been influenced by Muhammad's strongly monotheistic ideas, but his own wish for and drive for power may have been as strong a reason.

    But the Quran is based only on what a single man said - only one man. A man who lived 600 years later, who brought not one single proof or witness - only claims and statements taken from nowhere and from legends. Also a man for whom it was essential (just read the Quran and see) to be the greatest of prophets, which meant he had to reduce Jesus. And a man who craved very much for power - once more; just read the Quran and see how he glues himself to his platform of power; his religion and the god of that religion - which meant that his teachings had to gain priority over other teachings. And a man telling he got his teachings directly from an omniscient god - which meant it was impossible to accept that there were mistakes in the teachings (a problem which today is a nightmare for Islamic scholars, because there very obviously are lots of mistakes, and it is difficult to find good enough ways of “explaining” the mistakes away, except for to people with no - or not enough - knowledge, or not able to think for themselves - - - or believing so strongly that they anyhow do not want to see facts that do not fit what they believe.) And not least: ####A man who accepted the use of dishonesty - and himself used dishonesty - as a working tool. We remind you of al-Taqiyya (the lawful lie), Kitman (the lawful half-truth), Hilah (the lawful pretending/circumventing), which are all founded on his words and principles, his use and acceptance of the use of deceit and even betrayal (f.x. his murdering of the peace delegation from Khaybar, and his lies in the Quran), and his acceptance of breaking of words/promises/oaths (2/225, 3/54, 5/89, 16/91, 66/2). #########A man of this moral quality and reliability is the ONLY source Islam is built on.

    Whereas the Bible is written by many different persons, and as for NT many of whom knew Jesus or his closest co-workers, the Disciples, and nearly all wrote at times when there still were thousands of witnesses alive that had personally heard and seen what Jesus said and did.

    We do not say that the Bible is right. We even less say that all details in the Bible are right, as it is clear that some details are wrong also in the Bible, at least in Genesis (creating it all).

    But there is no doubt that according to all rules for evaluating information, the Bible should be more reliable than the Quran. The OT is written some 1000 or more years earlier and consequently 1000 years or more closer to what happened, and also had at least a lot of verbal traditions to build on. And NT was written 450 – 600 before the Quran, and with lots and lots of witnesses to what had happened still alive when much of it was written. Muhammad on the other hand had few sources, and they were mixed up with fairy tales (like the Child Gospels, from which he f.x. has got the story of the bird Jesus made from clay) or so-called apocryphal gospels or books - all of which are proved to be made up or propaganda for sects, or - well - fairy tales. Ok, he said he got his information from a god - but that is very easy and very cheap to say - many a founder of many a sect or religion have said the same thing. And there is not a single proof - not one single - for it being true in all the Quran, in spite of wishes and demands from both skeptics and followers. Questions which at best were answered with some fast-talk about what Allah could do if he wanted (but he never “wanted”) or that none of them would believe even if Allah sent real (supernatural) proofs (something any person who knows a little about people or about psychology knows is not true - supernatural proofs/wonders had made at least some believe. What is worse: Muhammad was a wise man who understood human nature - he had to know that he was lying each time he told just this). And do not forget: The glorified ideal Muhammad was in reality a highwayman and thief, an extorter, a rapist, a murderer and mass murderer, an enslaver, a warlord lusting for power and for wealth for bribes, and a warlord telling that “war is betrayal”, not to mention his al-Taqiyya (lawful lie) and Kitman (lawful half-truth).

    There also is the fact that science knows some 13ooo scriptures or fragments with relation to the Bible or Biblical circumstances. Plus 32ooo other manuscripts with references to the Bible. All of these from before 610 AD = before there was any reason to falsify Muhammad or something out of the Bible - if he had ever been there. They all are in accordance with the modern Bible, and when they find that the translators of the Bible have misunderstood or not been quite exact enough, the translation of the Bible is corrected in later editions - one wants and strives for to have everything as correct as possible. In stark contrast: When Islam finds scriptures or fragments which are not quite the same as the 6 Qurans they use today (4 of them just in small areas), the findings are denied and hidden - a star example is the many copies of the Quran found in Yemen in 1972; when it became clear that details - some of them of significance - were unlike what was written in the Quran(s) of today, scientists were denied access to them anymore.

    Conclusion: Any student and any professor of history will say that according to normal rules for evaluation, the Bible is far more reliable than the Quran as a source for historical information. And any psychologist will confirm that Muhammad must have known he lied each and every time he said that (supernatural) proofs of Allah had made no-one believe in Allah anyhow. And more: No serious scientist uses information from before 610 AD in the Quran in his science - it is not reckoned to be reliable.

    160 18/110d: "- - - the inspiration (the Quran*) has come to me (Muhammad*) - - -". The Biblical prophets never got their information from the god by means of inspiration according to the Bible - in stark contradiction to what Muhammad often claimed (to make himself like them and thus being able to claim he was a real prophet) - but by direct contact, visions or dreams (4. Mos.12/5-8). One more indication for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god.

    ##161 19/30c: “(Allah has*) given me revelations and made me (the baby Jesus*) a prophet - - -”. #####Even Islam (f.x. the learned Ikrimah, quoted by Tabari) accepts that it is impossible that a baby is a prophet, but the explaining it away is vague and hypothetical. A very clear mistake. This even more so as there is not one single chance that this wonder had been forgotten in or omitted from NT if it had been true. Actually this is one of the points where many Muslim scholars accept there is a mistake in the Quran. (Actually it is generally accepted by Islam to be wrong.)

    ##162 19/30-33a: The newly born baby Jesus is continuing talking and discussing in his cradle. Also this is “borrowed” from apocryphal (made up) Child Gospels - in this case as far as we know via “The Arab Child Gospel” - called “The first Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ” – an apocryphal scripture from 2. century. There is not a single chance that a wonder like this had been omitted from the Bible, as it would have strengthened Jesus’ position quite a lot. This even more so as there are not many tales about Jesus as a child, and this story would have made that part of his life less blank. Once more a fairy tale used like a true story by Allah or Muhammad. Even a book like “The Message of the Quran” is not able to defend this as a true story, but it only offers speculations and presumptions to explain away the impossibility.

    ####"The Message of the Quran" (A19/24 – in 2008 edition A19/23): As baby Jesus impossibly could be a prophet, there has to be other explanations, according to the Muslim scholars. As said: ONE MORE PLACE WHERE MUSLIM SCHOLARS AGREE THAT SOMETHING MUST BE WRONG IN THE QURAN.

    A very clearly not true story - a clear mistake. These parts of the story about the birth of Jesus are so far out/silly, that they are not even really worth a laugh.

    We have never met a Muslim explaining why the Quran often took its stories from well known, but made up legends and fairy tales, and then explained the differences from the Bible by insisting that the Bible is faked. And the use of old stories clearly is the reason why the old Arabs chided Muhammad for "just telling old tales" - and they were right, as he simply copied old stories.

    Not much is said about the childhood of Jesus neither in the Bible nor in the Quran. In the Bible his childhood mostly seems to have been a normal childhood with a few exceptions, but in the Quran he was very early prepared for being or becoming a prophet by studying the Gospel (which did not exist at that time - and could not exist).

    163 19/30-33b (A19/24) – in 2008 edition A19/23): A similar case as 18/84 above: As baby Jesus impossibly could be a prophet, this even according to Islam. There has to be other explanations, according to the Muslim scholars.

    164 19/41a: "- - - Abraham: he was a man of Truth, a prophet." In the Bible Abraham never is treated like a prophet (except he had closeness to Yahweh), he never behaves like a prophet (with the same exception), he never claims to be a prophet, and he is never in the Bible said to be a prophet by anyone who should know (though the word is used a couple of times). He simply is one of the three patriarchs of Israel - and the Jews had not reduced their own founding father if they really reckoned him to be a prophet. Likely a prophet, but mainly a patriarch.

    165 19/49c: "- - - each of them (Isaac and Jacob*) We (Allah*) made a prophet". In the Bible they are 2 of the 3 patriarchs of the Jews (Abraham was the first), but they are not named prophets in the Bible. Likely prophets, but mainly patriarchs.

    166 19/53c: "- - - Aaron, (also) a prophet - - -". Moses was a prophet also in the Bible - it is said so in f.x. 5. Mos. 18/15 and 18/18 - but Aaron is nowhere treated like or behaved like or was called a prophet there.

    167 19/54c: "- - - he (Ishmael*) was a messenger (and) a prophet". Not one word about this in the Bible, and these parts of the Bible (1. Mos.) were written at least 1ooo years before Muhammad (and not falsified according to science and Islam) - which means at least 1ooo years before there even was any reason for falsifying it.

    168 19/54d: "- - - a messenger (and) a prophet". In the Bible you hardly see this distinction, as the word "messenger" hardly is used as a title, but in the Quran and in Islam it of some essence. You meet Muslims telling you that a prophet only is a prophet, whereas a messenger is something much more - though no Muslim has ever been able to tell us what the superiority of being a messenger is. In normal language it is the other way around: A prophet is distinct title telling about a close connection to a god. Whereas a messenger only is someone who brings a message - something the messenger even may know nothing about or do not understand - from one place to another. One reason for this claim about the superiority of being a messenger, may be that Muhammad in reality was no prophet - he never in all his life made a real prophesy, and a prophet unable to make prophesies is no real prophet. Muhammad knew this, and Islam knows it - and then messenger is a safer title than prophet (which many could question). Another fact is that Muhammad in reality was a doubtful character - just look at his claims and deeds and introduced rules, etc. - and they need to "enlarge" him to something even better than the old prophets, as all Islam rests only on this man's rather suspect words, moral and integrity. An imposing title kills some questions, so make the title imposing.

    169 19/56: "- - - Idris - - -". This may be a made up name, it may or may not have been the Biblical Jewish prophet Enoch (1. Mos. 5/18-19 and 5/21-24), or perhaps the also Biblical prophet Elijah (1. King 17/1 and 1. King 17/16-46), or it may be someone unknown. Nobody knows. The infamously clear language in the Quran.

    170 19/58b: "- - - those (Jewish prophets*) whom We (Allah*) guided - - -". As Allah and Yahweh are not the same god - too much is different of the fundamental elements of the teachings - Allah was not involved with the Jewish prophets according to the Bible.

    171 19/58c: "- - - those (Jewish prophets*) whom We (Allah*) guided - - -". One cannot guide anyone very much with something similar to the Quran with all its mistakes, etc., and according to the Quran that was what Allah had to offer his claimed prophets.

    Another point is that according to the Bible, their god was Yahweh, not Allah.

    172 19/58f: "- - - they (the old Jewish prophets*) would fall down in prostration (indicated to Allah*) and tears". As Allah had no connections to the Jewish prophets, also this part of the claim is untrue according to the Bible.

    173 19/89b: "Indeed ye (Christians*) have put forth a thing most monstrous (that Jesus is the son of Yahweh*)!" If Jesus is the son of Yahweh/God, Muhammad impossibly can be the greatest of prophets. On the other hand one cannot totally omit that maybe Muhammad really wanted the god to be the only big one, and believed Christians had Jesus as god number 2 (and Maria(!!) as number 3 in the trinity).

    174 20/13: "- - - the inspiration sent to thee (Moses*)- - -". There is nowhere told in the Bible that Moses - or any other of the prophets in the Bible - got orders or information from the god by inspiration. (But Muhammad needed conformation for that his own claimed inspirations were normal ways of contact from his claimed god).

    Actually it is said in the Bible that to Moses Yahweh spoke directly (4. Mos. 12/8). To some of the other prophets he also spoke directly - at least sporadically - but but for that he used visions or dreams, not inspiration (4. Mos. 12/6). Another indication for that Yahweh and Allah were not the same god - they used different means of communication.

    175 21/7c: "- - - those who possess the Message (of the old*)". The Jews (and the few Christians around). They could have testified that most messengers/prophets from the god were men, but would have added that Muhammad all the same was wrong, as some were angels and a few were women. They also would have protested to that the old prophets, not to mention the angles, mainly got their messages by inspiration, because the word is not at all used in such connections in the Bible. Perhaps a bluff by Muhammad to prove he was a real prophet? As claimed he got his messages via inspiration, and then it was it was good "documentation" to claim the old ones had got their messages the same way.

    176 21/8: "- - - nor were they (earlier prophets*) exempt from death." Well, there is Enoch, who according to the Quran's definition may have been a prophet, and who seems to have been taken up to heaven alive ("- - - then he was no more, because Yahweh took him away" (1. Mos. 5/24). As this is said in a list of names where all the others are told to have died, and as it is told that Enoch was a man who "walked with Yahweh", it is believed that this means he was taken up alive). And according to the Bible the old Jewish prophet Elijah was taken alive to the Heaven in a chariot of fire and with horses of fire (2. Kings 2/11). A god had known this, but likely not Muhammad, as he knew the Bible badly. Then there is the case of Jesus. Islam tells he was taken up to god alive. The Bible has a more advanced story: He was killed, but death could not hold him and he woke up again, and then afterwards he was taken up to Heaven alive. Even if there had been only the case of Elijah it had made this point in the Quran not quite correct - and is a god "not quite correct"? It also makes even Elijah and Enoch more special for Yahweh than Muhammad for Allah - Muhammad died a rather inglorious death (there is a rumor that he was poisoned). More essential: Whether you believe in the story the Quran tells or the one in the Bible, if one of them is true, this alone proves that Jesus represented something supernatural - a proof Muhammad never was able to produce for neither his god nor for himself. And on top of that: The ascension alive in case - like with Elijah - proved Jesus had a standing to his god which Muhammad did not have to his - or Muhammad's god did not have the power.

    As for Jesus also most of Islam admits he was taken up to Heaven alive (though they dismiss his crucifixion, death, and revival).

    177 21/9a "In the end We (Allah*) fulfilled to them (here indicated the old Jewish prophets*) - - -". Contradicted by the Bible which tells that the god of those prophets was Yahweh, not Allah. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    178 21/9b "In the end We (Allah*) fulfilled to them (here indicated the old Jewish prophets*) Our promise - - -". There never has been reported one single proved case of Allah keeping a promise. Never.

    179 21/25a: "Not one messenger did We (Allah*) send before thee (Muhammad*) without the inspiration - - -". As the Quran (wrongly) claims also the Biblical prophets were sent by Allah, this is wrong, as the Bible clearly says they got their messages by direct contact, visions, or dreams (4. Mos. 12/6-8). Inspiration is nowhere in the Bible mentioned as a means for this. But Muhammad often claimed also the old prophets got information by inspiration, in order to legitimize his own claim that he god information that way, and thus legitimize his claim that he was a normal prophet.

    180 21/73d: "- - - regular prayers - - -". There is said nothing about this (fixed times for prayers) in the Bible - actually nowhere in the Bible about any of the prophets - Jewism and even more so Christianism stresses mainly realities and less formalities. Islam's and Allah's greater stress on formalities compared to Yahweh's greater stress on realities (like this and like charity shall really be charity, not only fulfilling your duties towards your nearest family, etc.) is one more indication for that Yahweh and Allah is not the same god - see 21/73d just below.

    As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are taught that a question or problem can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not, many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. In cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1) Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other.)

    181 21/73g: "- - - and they (the prophets of the old*) constantly served us (Allah*) (and Us only)". At least the prophets of the Bible - the real ones - served Yahweh, not Allah - and at least for the youngest ones this is likely to be documented facts as we slowly are approaching historical times, not only something which is said in the Bible (but in the Bible false prophets are mentioned several times - some of them may have served other gods).

    182 21/78b: "- - - the sheep of certain people who had strayed by night - - -". There is no such story in the Bible. Either this is a pure legend retold - there are many made up legends retold in the Quran, claimed to be the pure truth - or it is a misunderstood version of the story about David and Bathsheba (2. Sam. 11/2-26), or to be more exact the prophet Nathan's words to David because of this (2. Sam. 12/1-7). Twisted stories from the Bible you find some of in the Quran - and the crucial word in those cases is "twisted". And as crucial: As the Quran is not from a god - too much is wrong - and as the Bible mostly is the only source for these old stories: From where did Muhammad get the claimed Biblical information not in the Bible?

    183 21/85b: Idris may or may not be Enoch (Gen. 5/21-24). It also may mean Elijah or somebody else. As mentioned before, the language in the Quran often is far from exact. It may also simply be a name invented by Muhammad - and the same goes for Dhu'l-Kifl just below (and for the claimed Arab prophets Hud, Salih, and Shu'ayb may be).

    184 21/85c: Dhu'l-Kifl - nobody knows who he was, except it is likely he was a Jewish prophet. Many names are mentioned, but it only is guesswork. Also see 21/85b just above.

    185 21/87b: "- - - Dhu'n-Nun - - -". = Jonah.

    186 21/89b: "- - - Zakariyya, when he cried to his Lord (here indicated to be Allah*) - - -". This is plainly wrong. One thing is that the Bible says his god was Yahweh, not Allah. Much more serious here is that we now are in the times of history: Zakariyya was a priest in the Temple in Jerusalem according to both the Bible and the Quran, and we are around the times of the birth of Jesus. From these times we have a number of written papers confirming that the cult of Yahweh was totally dominant in Israel - so dominant that to pray to a pagan god (al-Lah) from a neighboring country in the Temple at this time, not to mention for a priest to do so, was much more than unthinkable. Thus we here have not only a statement from the Bible, but a proved fact that it was out of any question for Zakariyya (Zechariah in the Bible) to pray to Allah/al-Lah.

    187 21/90: "- - - Yahya (John the Baptist*) - - -". A time anomaly.

    188 21/91a: "- - - her who guarded her chastity - - -". = Mary. Both the Bible and the Quran agrees on that she was a virgin. But one thing is to read about this in the NT and in the Quran. More uncanny is it to read in the prophet Isaiah (Is. 7/14) several hundred years before Christ: "Therefore the Lord himself (Yahweh*) will give you a sign: A Virgin will be with child and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel". This becomes extra uncanny when you know that Immanuel means "god with us", as this practically is what Christians call him: The divine "who was with us" (remember Jesus is not reckoned to be God, only divine - there only is one God).

    ###189 22/27c: “And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men - - -.” Pilgrimage to Mecca is so essential to Allah that he made it one of the 5 "pillars" in Islam. To Yahweh it is so totally without interest, that it is not mentioned even one time in the entire Bible, and none of the prophets or others in the Bible ever mentioned a wish to visit Mecca or the Kabah or making a pilgrimage - a hajj - there. One more 100+% proof for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god.

    ##190 22/30b: "- - - the sacred rites of Allah - - -". These rites - so essential to Allah in spite of being pagan ones and pretty childish/naive ones fitting primitive minds mainly - are so entirely different from anything Yahweh asks for, that especially combined with the very demand for going on pilgrimage to one special place, that they make up one more 100% proof for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god. This even more so as the demanded place is on totally without interest to Yahweh - not mentioned a single time in the entire Bible. And neither Yahweh, nor Jesus ever expressed a wish for humans to practice pilgrimage (there is pilgrimage among Christians, too, but the request for such is not from the Bible - f.x. not one of the Biblical prophets, included Jesus, ever made a pilgrimage or even wanted to do so, not to mention a pilgrimage to Kabah).

    191 23/23a: "(Further We (Allah*) sent a long line of prophets for your (Muhammad’s*) instruction)". The problem is that Muhammad does not fit in the long line of Jewish prophets. To do that, his teachings, etc. would have had to build on the earlier prophets' teachings and messages from Yahweh, which it to a far too large degree does not do - and Muhammad's claim that the reason is that the Bible is falsified, is proved wrong both by science and by Islam. Besides many of the divergences are so fundamental that they could not have been explained with some falsifications anyhow. Muhammad and his teaching simply differ too much from the old Jewish prophets - he does not fit into that line. To compare f.x. him and Jesus (the last one before Muhammad) hardly is possible.

    192 23/24d: "- - - his (Noah's*) wish is to assert his superiority over you (people*) - - -". This is a very common wish from founders of new sects and religions - f.x. Muhammad was in a similar situation, and he made himself the superior when he gained power, (though just in this case and in some other cases in the Quran from before Muhammad thought he would ever gain much power, it is likely meant as irony: "Hear how stupid their accusations are towards one who just want to teach religion" - and to put himself in line with most of the old Jewish prophets, who most of them had no political or military power. It is very typical for Muhammad to make prophets and other "positive" figures be a copy of his own situation at the time the different verses were published, and thus "show" his followers that his situation was typical for prophets (and thus that Muhammad was a typical prophet).

    193 23/24d: "- - - his (Noah's*) wish is to assert his superiority over you (people*) - - -". This is a very common wish from founders of new sects and religions - f.x. Muhammad was in a similar situation, and he made himself the superior when he gained power, (though just in this case and in some other cases in the Quran from before Muhammad thought he would ever gain much power, it is likely meant as irony: "Hear how stupid their accusations are towards one who just want to teach religion" - and to put himself in line with most of the old Jewish prophets, who most of them had no political or military power. It is very typical for Muhammad to make prophets and other "positive" figures be a copy of his own situation at the time the different verses were published, and thus "show" his followers that his situation was typical for prophets (and thus that Muhammad was a typical prophet).

    194 23/44a: "Then sent We (Allah*) Our messengers in succession - - -". Muhammad claimed that through all times and to all people Allah had sent his prophets. Neither science nor Islam has ever found the slightest traces from such prophets - even though Hadiths claims there have been at least 124ooo of them. When you see what traces the few Jewish prophets left - and Muhammad left even though he was no real prophet (had not the gift/ability to make prophesies) - such a claim does not sound trustworthy.

    195 23/52b: "- - - verily, this Brotherhood of yours (prophets'*) is a single Brotherhood - - -". Wrong. One may say that the prophets from the Bible, included Jesus and perhaps his disciples and Paul belonged to a brotherhood - clearly the same god, clearly the same teaching - except that "the New Covenant" represented more mildness from Yahweh - the words and teachings and foretelling corresponded to each other, etc., all in the same line of traditions. Muhammad was totally outside that line on every essential point - different god, different teaching, fundamentally different religion, different traditions, outside the foretelling of the older prophets (not only himself, but also what he said and told), very different code of moral, no empathy - even a very different paradise.

    In spite of Muhammad's repeated claims: He did not belong in the same line of prophets as the Biblical ones. No matter whether he is claimed to be a real or a false prophet, his teachings and his god are too different from that of the Biblical prophets - he is not in that line of prophets. It is not a single brotherhood.

    196 23/52c: "- - - I (Allah*) am your (the prophets'*) Lord and Cherisher - - -". Wrong - see 23/52b just above - unless Islam brings solid proofs for their undocumented - like always - claim. He may have been Muhammad’s god or made up god, but he was not the god of the Biblical prophets, included Jesus - too much is different in the teachings and the traditions. (compare f.x. the teachings of Jesus and Muhammad yourself - they are so different that they are not even at the same planet).

    197 25/77a: "My (Muslim's*) Lord (Allah*) is not uneasy because of you (non-believers who will be lost*) - - -". Compare this to "the lost coin" (Luke 15/8-10), "the lost sheep" (Matt. 18/12-14), "the lost son" (Luke 15/11-31) - one more 100% proof for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god - and Jesus (and the other old Jewish prophets) and Muhammad not in the same line of prophets (Muhammad was not even a real prophet - he did not have that gift. But an imposing title is cheap to "borrow").

    198 26/27c: "Truly your messenger (Moses*) who has been sent to you (Pharaoh Ramses II*) is a veritable madman!" Notice that this is the same as was said about Muhammad by some in Mecca. If you read the Quran, you will see that most of the claimed or real prophets told about, are told to have had similar experiences like Muhammad. Simply Muhammad's way to tell his surroundings and followers - true or not true - that this was the normal reception of prophets, and thus that he was a normal prophet.

    Like much more in this story, this is not from the Bible.

    199 26/52a: "By inspiration We (Allah*) told Moses - - -". All the other things aside: The word "inspiration" is not mentioned in the Bible in connections like this. Yahweh gave his messages either by direct contact, by visions, or by means of dreams (4. Mos. 12/6-8). But this was the method by which Muhammad claimed he got most of his information and orders from his god, and then it had value that his followers believed this was the normal way of contact with their god for prophets - and thus that Muhammad was a normal prophet with normal contact with his god. You will find several claims in the Quran saying that different prophets received their information etc. by inspiration. A number of places - like here - this information is added without having any meaning or value for the story - obviously for some reason outside the story, like telling the audience about the claimed normal way for the god to contact his claimed prophets.

    To get his verses and surahs "by inspiration", was a very convenient way to receive it: Not possible for anyone to check, and very easy to subtract or add points or more - - - and easy to make up verses and more. This religious part of the story about Exodus is not from the Bible - but by adding it, Muhammad made it fit one of his 3 - 4 standard receipts for tales in the Quran.

    200 26/107: "I (Noah*) am to you (people*) a messenger worthy all trust". This was more or less what Muhammad claimed about himself, and then it was good psychology that former prophets said the same - this made Muhammad's words more likely. You many places in the Quran find this kind of psychology used.

    201 26/108: "(Noah said*) So fear Allah, and obey me". This was one of Muhammad's mantras, and then it was psychologically wise to make it "clear" that this was normal for prophets to say - though you do not find it in the Bible concerning Noah, and also not concerning many Biblical known, real prophets". A very nice slogan for any dictator.

    Two points: Noah said nothing like this in the Bible. And Jesus did not say "obey me", but "follow me" - there are miles between those two expressions.

    202 26/109a: "No reward do I (Noah*)ask of you (people*) for it (my preaching*) - - -". Another - and wrong - of Muhammad's mantras - see 26/108 just above. Muhammad also demanded much from his followers' obedience, respect, women, riches for bribes and women, and total power.

    203 26/109b: "- - - my (Noah's*) reward is only from (Allah*) - - -". Another parallel to Muhammad legitimizing Muhammad as a claimed prophet. see 26/108 above.

    ####204 26/115b: "I (Noah/Muhammad*) am sent only to warn in public". Parallel to Muhammad - these were his words this early. (Many of the stories are parallels to Muhammad's at the time it was told - legitimating that his situation was normal for prophets, and thus that he was a normal prophet.) Reality changed later when he became powerful - then force and terror entered the picture".

    205 26/116c: "- - - thou (Noah*) shalt be stoned - - -". There is no mentioning of punishment by stoning in the Bible, until in much later times. Also Noah was never threatened with stoning in the Bible.

    206 26/160a: "The people of Lut (Lot*) - - -". Here is referred to the people of the towns Sodom and Gomorra. They were not the people of Lot, as he was from very far off (Ur of the Chaldeans in what now is south Iraq), and it is clear from both the Bible and from the Quran that he also was not naturalized into the communities - but to make good its claim that prophets were sent to their own people, Muhammad needed this way of saying it. But Lot lived in that neighborhood - likely near Sodom.

    207 26/160b: "The people of Lut (Lot*) rejected the messengers" - just like Muhammad was rejected in Mecca at the start. The message: To be rejected is normal for prophets - like Muhammad - but they will be punished.

    208 26/160c: "The people of Lut (Lot*) rejected the messengers". See 26/70b above.

    209 26/161a: “- - - their (the people of Sodom and Gomorrah*) brother Lot - - -“. Wrong. Lot was a stranger to the two towns, and it is very clear both from the Quran and the Bible that he did not mingle well with those locals. He came - together with Abraham - from Ur in Chaldea (in south Iraq). He was no “brother” to them – not even in the figurative meaning of the word. (The word here obviously is used to make Lot and the mentioned people fit the pattern the Quran claims is universal: That the prophets come from the people they are to teach. But here that is incorrect). Also see 11/92 just above and 27/56 – it is very clear Lot was no brother of theirs - also not a naturalized "brother". (“Drive out the followers of Lut (Lot*) from our city - - -“.)

    210 26/161ba: "(Lot said*): 'Will ye not fear (Allah)?" Lot - if he ever lived - lived around 2ooo - 1800 BC. You are free to believe he preached about Allah at that time if you are able to, but neither science, nor Islam has been able to find any trace at all of Islam older than ca. 610 AD - some 2500 years later.

    211 26/162b: "I (Lot*) am to you a messenger (not said in the Bible*) worthy of all trust". See f.x. 26/125a above.

    This part of the story about Lot is far away from the one in the Bible. From where is this information? (We remind you that the Quran is so full of errors, etc., that it is not from any god, and thus no information that way.

    212 26/163: "So fear Allah and obey me (Lot*) - - -". See f.x. 26/108, 26/110 and 26/126 above.

    213 26/164a: "No reward do I (Lot*) ask of you for it - - -." See f.x. 26/109a and 26/127a above.

    214 26/164c: "- - - my (Lot's*) reward is only from (Allah*) - - -". Another parallel to Muhammad legitimizing Muhammad as a claimed prophet. see 26/108 above.

    This part of the story about Lot is far away from the one in the Bible. From where is this information? (We remind you that the Quran is so full of errors, etc., that it is not from any god, and thus no information that way.

    ##215 27/37a: King Solomon is offered gifts from the Queen of Saba/Sheba but answers with anger: “Go back to them (the rulers/queen of Saba*), and be sure we shall come to them with such hosts (armies*) as they will never be able to meet (= attack them*) - - -.” This answer has no logical reason or meaning, especially as the gifts were rich (“abundance of wealth”- 27/36) and thus no insult to a king. Also Islam agrees to that something is wrong here, as "a prophet could not answer good gifts with a war of aggression", but they do not have any good explanations – only rather lame speculations about perhaps it in reality is Allah who is speaking and threatening them with what he will do if they do not become Muslims (1500 years before Muhammad! – King Solomon ruled 961 – 922 BC give or take maximum 10 years according to Wikipedia). “Let there be no compulsion in religion”? THIS IS ONE OF THE PLACES WHERE MUSLIM SCHOLARS AGREE THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE TEXT IN THE QURAN. It also contradicts the Bible - nothing even similar to this there.

    216 27/37b: (A27/29): “Go back to them, and be sure we shall come to them (Saba/Sheba*) with such a host (army*) as they will never be able to meet: we shall expel them from there in disgrace, and they will feel humbled (indeed).” It is very clear from both the previous and the following verse that here it is Solomon speaking. But this is no logical answer to a peaceful embassy. The Quran also formally says that a war of attack is never permissible (though Muslims have found many ways around that formality.) So Muslim scholars have found it has another meaning: This is Allah warning the Sabeans to become Muslims – Solomon of course was a devout Muslim according to Islam and could not answer like this. In this case the second meaning clearly is made up – but it sounds real for Islam and its Muslims. And linguistically it is possible to twist the story like this. Also: "Let there be no compulsion in religion".

    And a historical fact destroying this "explanation": The Mosaic religion never was a proselyting one - Solomon never could have said this for a religious reason. Another historical fact: Solomon was a king of peace, not one of war - also for this reason it is highly unlikely he said this, and even more so as Sheba was a country far off. (Sheba was a kingdom centered around the oasis of Marib in what today is Yemen = very far off, and this even more so as Solomon had no camels - the Jews did not get camels until in the 8. century BC (Solomon lived in the 10. century BC). But Sheba had camels, and thus such a trip was ok for the Queen of Sheba.)

    And 3 scientific facts: 1): There never was found any trace from a book similar to the Quran anywhere before 610 AD when Muhammad started his mission. 2): There never was found any trace from a god similar to Muhammad's Allah anywhere older than 610 AD when Muhammad started his Mission. 3): There never was found any trace of a religion similar to Islam before 610 AD. Neither science nor Islam has been able to find anything - not in literature, not in history, not in archeology. The best proof for this is that if Islam had found even the smallest proof for Islam or Allah (Muhammad's version), or for the Quran older than 610 AD, they had told the world about it, and in BIG letters. Nobody has ever seen such letters. Another nearly as good proof is all the made up "proofs" Muslims and Islam are making. If they had had real proofs, they had not had to make up such hopeless claims (f.x. that Big Bang proves the creation in the Quran, etc., etc., etc.). The ones having to make up claims and "proofs" and twist facts, are the ones who have no real arguments to use.

    217 27/38a: (A27/31): “Ye Chiefs! Which of you can bring me her (the Queen of Sheba's*) throne before they come to me in surrender.” There is no logical meaning for surrender at this stage of the story – and especially not for such a distant country. May be therefore – or may be to keep up the pretension that good Muslims like Solomon (!) never starts a war – Islam has found another meaning: It means surrender to Islam. Well, the explanation is not quite as impossible as in 27/37b above. But it is not what the book says. “Surrender” is a political and military word with a clear meaning. It also is used in other connection, but then it is made clear what connection – like “surrender to Allah”, or “she will surrender to me” which implicates further details, articulated or not, to the word “surrender”. That is not the case here. Also see 27/38b just below.

    And also we are back to some historical facts: There was no religion like Islam, no book like the Quran, and no god like Allah anywhere in the world at that time + another historical fact: The Mosaic religion never was a proselyting one.

    The only possible conclusion is: The religious claims concerning the Queen of Sheba and Solomon are made up ones.

    218 27/54a: "(- - - sent) Lut (Lot*) as a messenger - - -". This is not in the Bible. There it is told he lived there (near Sodom and Gomorrah), but not that he should be a prophet for them (the Bible also does not use the word "messenger" as a title).

    219 27/54c: "- - - he (Lot*) said to his people - - -". Wrong. Both the Bible and the Quran make it very clear that Lot was not of the people in Sodom and Gomorrah. For one thing he was from a distant place (Ur in Chaldea in South Iraq), and for another thing especially in the Quran it is made clear that he was not accepted in the community. But the Quran needs to claim this, as it normally claims that prophets (here Lot - not called a prophet in the Bible) are sent to their own people.

    220 28/43a: “We (Allah*) revealed to Moses the Book”. Wrong. Moses got no book according to the Bible. The books of Moses were written centuries later according to science - they just were named after him. (According to the Bible Moses got the 10 commandments only in writing. In addition he was told the law, which he himself wrote down later - sometimes called "the Book of Covenant". The laws are parts of the later Books of Moses).

    The claim is even more wrong as Muhammad's claim was that earlier prophets got a book similar to the Quran (copies of the same claimed "Mother Book" - though with some claimed variations as time passed to adjust it to new situations, without we have ever seen or heard Muslims explain how exact copies of a claimed timeless book revered by a god and his angels, can vary), and the naked laws in the "Books of Moses", are something quite different from the Quran.

    221 28/43b: “We (Allah*) revealed to Moses the Book (wrong - the books of Moses were written centuries later according to science*) after We had destroyed the earlier generations - - -”. More generations between Noah and Moses killed off - Allah was a far keener worker than Yahweh, at least in the killing business. But which generations? (The Bible tells the Jews did not enter their promised land until the generation who had lived in Egypt had died off - 40 years later under Joshua. But if this is what is meant, there is a difference between "died off naturally" and "destroyed".

    222 29/16d: "- - - if ye (some non-Muslims*) understand!". The problem is that if people really have knowledge and understanding, they also understand that many things are wrong in the Quran, and thus that there is no god behind that book - or in this case a similar one, as this is from the time of Noah (a prophet of Islam according to the Quran - with all its errors).

    223 29/28a: “- - - Lut (Lot*); behold, he said to his people (the people of Sodom and Gomorrah*) - - -.” Wrong. Those people for one thing were not Lot’s “natural” people, as he was a stranger from very far away (Ur of the Chaldeans in what now is South Iraq, but here living near the Dead Sea), and for another both the Bible and the Quran make it very clear that he also was not a naturalized member of those communities – he was an outsider. (May be the Quran tells they were his people so as to be able to say he was a prophet to his own people, like they falsely claim every prophet was – in spite of Joseph (Egypt), Moses (Sinai(or Sudan?) 40 years), Abraham (Canaan), Lot (Dead See area), Jonah (Nineveh)).

    #224 29/58d: “- - - to them (Muslims*) shall We (Allah*) give a Home in Heaven, lofty Mansions beneath which flow rivers, to dwell therein for aye - - -”. Like life of the super rich on Earth plus plenty of water and women. Pretty different from Yahweh's Paradise: "- - - they will be like angels in heaven"(f.x. Matt. 22/30). The same god?! Answer not necessary. Jesus and Muhammad in the same line of prophets - or even in related lines? Still no answer necessary.

    ####Also note that this description of Paradise is not from the Bible. And remember: The big differences between Yahweh's and Allah's Paradises are one of the strong proofs for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god - if they had been, their Paradise had been one and the same.

    225 30/47c: “We did indeed send, before thee (Muhammad*), messengers to their (respective) peoples - - -.” It is generally an accepted fact – among clergy and science alike, that Abraham was a stranger to Canaan, Lot (a prophet according to the Quran) a stranger to Sodom and Gomorrah, that Jonah was a stranger to Nineveh, the town to which he was sent. Joseph was a stranger in Egypt, Lot a stranger in Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham a stranger in Canaan, and Moses a stranger in Sinai (or Sudan?) when he fled from Egypt. Most prophets worked among their own people, but in contradiction to the Quran, not all.

    ####226 31/15f: "- - - (- - - love) - - -". This word is very little used in the Quran - it may be symbolic that here it is inserted by the translator. And the few times it is used, it nearly without exception is used about Allah - like here - or about close relatives. Extremely different from NT. Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus and the other old Jewish prophets, and Muhammad in the same line of prophets (if Muhammad had been a real prophet)? Do not ask silly questions.

    227 32/23c: "We (Allah*) did indeed aforetime give the Book to Moses - - -". We may add here that Muhammad claimed the old prophets, included Moses, got a book similar to the Quran (both claimed to be a copy of the timeless "Mother Book" in Heaven), but that it later was falsified into the Bible (both science and Islam - not from free will - later have thoroughly proved the claim that the Bible is falsified, is wrong).

    228 32/23e: (YA3656): "Moses had, revealed to him, a Law, a sharia (!*), which was to guide his people in all practical affairs of their life. Jesus, after him, was also inspired by Allah (by Yahweh according to the Bible*): but his Injil or Gospel contained only general principles and not a Code (here in the meaning Law) or sharia. The Prophet (Muhammad*) was the next one to have a sharia - - -". Partly this is very wrong - an al-Taqiyya made by Y.A. - many of the laws in the Books of Moses are specific and detailed and definitely as much of a code as what you find in the Quran, and they were used and included in his teaching by Jesus (except that he changed a number of them (especially of the many additions made as "explanations" by Jewish scholars), confirmed by the Quran in 3/50a). Besides: What the honorable Abdullah Yusuf Ali "fails" to mention is that the laws and rules in the Bible, and especially so the "general principles" given by Jesus, are so different - and so fundamentally different - from the ones in the Quran, that they are not from the same god, not unless he is mentally very ill.

    ##229 32/23f: (YA3657): “We (Allah*) did indeed aforetime give the Book to Moses: be not then in doubt of its reaching (thee) - - -.” But the Arab pronoun “hi” can be translated either “its” or “his”. In the last case the meaning here is: “- - - be not then in doubt of his (Moses’*) reaching (thee) (it must in case mean Moses’ thoughts or example or deeds*) - - -“. Extra interesting as the 5 "Books of Moses" were not written until centuries after his death according to science.

    230 32/23g: "- - - We (Allah) made it (the book Muhammad claimed Allah gave Moses*) a guide for the Children of Israel". There is no doubt from historical sources that the god of the Jews was Yahweh, not Allah.

    231 33/2c: "- - - by inspiration - - -". A very convenient way to get information, at least if you need some extra help from your god f.x. in your family life. Also impossible for others to check. The word is not mentioned in connection to the prophets in the Bible. Yahweh only used direct contact, visions, and dreams for giving information (4. Mos. 12/6-8).

    232 33/7a: "- - - We (Allah*) took from the Prophets their Covenant - - -". Even if we omit the fact that the Bible talks about Yahweh and the Quran about Allah - 2 obviously very different gods - there still remains the fact that Yahweh did not make that kind of a covenant with his prophets like said in verses 7 and 8, for the very obvious reason that he did not need that kind of information - according to the Bible Yahweh is really omniscient for things which happens, and then why should he ask for what he already knew? One more clear difference between Yahweh and Allah. Not the same god. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    233 33/7b: "- - - We (Allah*) took from the Prophets their Covenant: as (We did) from thee (Muhammad*) - - -". There is no proof for a covenant between Allah and Muhammad - or the Muslims. A number of claims, but not one proof. Worse: The only "documentation" for Allah's very existence is a made up - at least from no god - book based only on the words of a man with highly dubious moral and reliability, liking power and women (not uncommon for self proclaimed "prophets").

    And the covenants with the Biblical prophets were with Yahweh, not with Allah, according to the Bible, and - where information about their real religion exists - also in accordance with science.

    33/7d: "- - - Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus - - -". 4 historical covenants - and anomalies. It also is not correct of Muhammad to compare himself to those 4, as their teachings are so different from Muhammad's, that he clearly does not belong in that line of prophets/messengers or even religion - this in spite of Muhammad's claim (even if things are claimed, they are not necessarily true).

    234 33/7e: "- - - Jesus the son of Mary - - -". See 5/110a above.

    235 33/50-52: Some serious questions: These verses - 33/50-52 - are about how many women Muhammad was permitted to have and have sex with - nearly any woman and more or less as many as he wanted for marriage plus any not pregnant captive or slave girl or woman. And like some other founders of sects and religions there were special rules for this and that for himself. Does this really belong in a holy book - a book which is a copy of the claimed "mother book" which is revered by the god and his angels in Heaven (13/39b, 43/4, 85/21-22)? And how does this compare with the real prophets in the Bible - the ones he claims to be in the same line of? (Remember that in the Bible men like David and Solomon are not reckoned among the prophets, but among the kings.) And finally: How does rape/forced sex with captive or slave women compare with NT's view of rules for sex?

    Yahweh and Allah the same god? Perhaps - if he is strongly schizophrenic. Jesus and Muhammad in the same religion and moral code? You bet!

    236 35/4b: "- - - so were the messengers rejected before thee (Muhammad*) - - -". You will see many places that it was essential for Muhammad to claim he was just like the old Jewish prophets - and he indicated that this meant he was just a normal prophet (though in too many ways he differed from them - his teachings, his life, his basic ideas, his demand for riches, his womanizing, his point of view concerning honesty and even oaths, etc. - he is not in that line).

    237 35/25e: "(Earlier prophets came with) the Book of Enlightenment". Muhammad claimed that all earlier prophets had got a copy of the timeless claimed "Mother Book" in Heaven - similar to the Quran, which is claimed to be a copy of the same claimed "Mother Book", but that the bad Jews and Christians had falsified it and transformed it into the Bible. (Both science and Islam have thoroughly proved the claim wrong - and besides: How do you f.x. make Jews and Christians agree on how to falsify the texts in a Bible?)

    238 36/3d: "- - - one of the messengers - - -". Muhammad claimed to be in the same line of prophets ("messenger" is not used as a title in the Bible) as the Biblical ones. To be in that line, his teachings had to be similar to theirs, and also the facts and prophesies had to be an integrated part of the ones from the prophets in that line. Nothing of this is the case. In spite of strong - and as normal from Muhammad and Islam not proved - claims Muhammad is not in that line of prophets. His deeds, demands, introduced rules, code of moral, etc. all clearly places him far outside that line - and places both him and his religion in the line of religions of war, together with religions like the one of the Vikings, the Mayas, the one of Djingis Khan, etc.

    239 36/14a: The 2 + later 1 messengers: Muslims like to see these as Moses and Jesus followed - and strengthened - by Muhammad. But there is no indication for that this is the meaning. Also remember here that there were many more prophets in Israel than Moses and Jesus - a god did not need to choose just these two. In reality it also had been impossible, as there were some 1300 years between those two - if also Moses was a real person - and another some 600 years till Muhammad, whereas the 3 in these verses (36/13-21) lived at the same time and worked together.

    240 36/21d: (YA3967): "Prophets do not seek their own advantage". If you read the Bible, you will find that this mostly is correct. Which is another indication/proof for that Muhammad was no prophet - he wanted and got power (in addition to riches for bribes for more power and women - he was well off when he died (in spite of Muslims' claims about his poverty), f.x. with estates in Medina, Fadang, and Khaybar).

    ##241 37/72b: "But We (Allah*) sent aforetime, among them (earlier people*) (messengers) to admonish them - - -". We may add that Muhammad claimed that among others the old Jewish prophets preached Islam, but that later generations falsified the religion away from Islam and over to the Jewish (Mosaic) religion of his (and later) time. As always Muhammad had no proofs for his claims. But no modern scientist within relevant sciences believes him (except some of the Muslims).

    242 37/99b: "I (Abram/Abraham*) will go to my Lord (claimed by the Quran to be Allah*)! He will surely guide me". Hardly a good guide if on relied on a parallel to the Quran, something the Quran claims was the basis for all claimed prophets.

    #243 37/101: "- - - a boy - - -". This is meant to be Ishmael, the son Abraham got with the Egyptian slave woman, Hagar, and whom the Arabs claim are their forefather - even though the Bible tells he and his mother settled near the border of Egypt - 1. Mos. 25/18. (The Quran claims he settled in Mecca - a claim which extremely unlikely can be true).

    ###There also is the fact that Arabia was settled thousands of years before Abraham and Ishmael. Thus there were tens of thousands of forefathers for the Arabs of Muhammad's generation. Thus if all the same some descendants of Ishmael settled in Arabia, they in case meant only a miniscule part of a percent of an Arab's blood at that time, and even less today, mainly because of import of millions of slaves from Africa and other places through the years. That much for Arab's relationship to Abraham and for the pure Arab blood today (the pure Arab blood even never existed - modern DNA shows that the Arabs never was a "pure" race, but are the descendants of people who drifted into the peninsula from neighboring countries all around - - - + from the millions of imported Negro and other slaves.

    244 37/102b: Even if we omit the fact that here it is indicated that Ishmael is the boy, whereas the Bible clearly says it was Isaac (Abraham's son with his wife Sarah), this scene is told in a fundamentally different way in the Bible - more dramatic (1. Mos. 22/2-8).

    245 37/102-103: The testing of Abraham. The name of the boy is not mentioned here, but other places the Quran claims that it was Ishmael. The Bible says it was Isaac.

    If the time sequences given in the Bible are correct, the boy cannot have been Ishmael. See 37/103 just below.

    246 37/103: (YA4101): YA argues that as the Bible says that as the god ordered Abraham to sacrifice his only son (f.x. 1. Mos. 22/2), this must mean that Abraham was ordered to sacrifice Ishmael, and that this happened after Ishmael - the oldest of the two - was born, but before Isaac was born, and Abraham only had one son. But:

    1. The Bible is written quite chronologically (unlike the Quran where there is very little chronology). The test of Abraham comes well after the birth of Isaac and after Hagar and Ishmael was sent away, and Abraham only had Isaac left.
    2. ----------------------------------------------------------
    3. 1. Mos. 12/4: Abraham was 75 when he left Haran for Canaan.
    4. 1. Mos. 16/3-4: After Abraham had lived in Canaan 10 years, Hagar became pregnant. Abraham thus was 76 when Ishmael was born.
    5. 1. Mos. 17/24-25: Abraham was 99 and Ishmael was 13 when they both were circumcised.
    6. 1. Mos. 21/5: Abraham was 100 when Isaac was born (and Ishmael 14).
    7. 1. Mos. 21/8: Isaac then grew and was weaned. Time is not given, but likely 1-2 years (in the old time and some places also today, 2 years often were used, because the child then often were more healthy. They did not know the reason, but mother's milk contains stuff which reduces some bacteria.
    8. 1. Mos. 21/14: Around this time - the time is not more exactly given - Hagar and Ishmael were sent away. Abraham now some 102, Ishmael some 16, and Isaac some 2 years old.
    9. 1. Mos. 21/20-21: Ishmael grew up, became an archer, and his mother found him a wife from Egypt. Time is not given, but some years. An educated guess; say 5 - 7 years till Ishmael was married. If we say 6, Abraham was 108, Ishmael 22 (a normal age for marriage then), and Isaac 8 years.

    10.   1. Mos. 21/22-31: The treaty of Beersheba. Verse 22 starts with: "At that time - - -". This refers to verse 21 just before, and the marriage of Ishmael. The Treaty of Beersheba was made around that time - and Abraham still some 108, Ishmael some 22, and Isaac some 8 years.
    11.   1. Mos. 21/34: After the Treaty of Beersheba was made, "Abraham stayed in the land of the Philistines for a long time". For a man around 108 years old, "a long time" should be one or some years. If we guess 3 years, Abraham now was 111, Ishmael 25, and Isaac 11 years.
    12.   1. Mos. 22/1: "Some time later (some time after verse 21/34 just above*) God tested Abraham". And this test was the demand for the sacrifice of his "only" son. This means that Abraham was something like 111, Ishmael something like 25, and Isaac something like 11 years old when this took place. It also means that both Ishmael and Isaac were born, but that Ishmael had been away for some 8-10 years, lived near Egypt, and it is not mentioned he had visited his father one single time during those years - understandable, but likely a fact.
    13.   Remember here that both science and Islam have given strong circumstantial and empirical proofs for that the Bible is not falsified.
    14.   ----------------------------------------------------------
    15.   After Hagar and Ishmael was sent away, Abraham only had one son left (he got 6 more later - never mentioned in the Quran (1. Mos. 25/2)).
    16.   At that time Isaac was his only son born in wedlock - Ishmael was born out of wedlock, even if some Muslims try to "repair" this - according to the books - fact.
    17.   Ishmael had been away for many years with little or no contact with Abraham, and also was no member of Abraham's household.
    18.   The Bible names the son he is going to sacrifice: Isaac.(1. Mos. 22/2).
    19.   In the relevant chapter - 1. Mos. Ch. 22 - the god stresses no less than 3 times that it is about his only son, Isaac. He simply stresses that Isaac was the only son who counted (and the only one Abraham really had left) as Abraham's descendants were to be reckoned through Isaac (1. Mos. 21/12) and it was through Isaac and his son Jacob the god's covenant would run.
    20.   In the Bible - the only perhaps reliable source about Abraham (the Quran is so full of errors, that it definitely is not reliable) - there also are some time sequences. They fit the story like told in the Bible, but not like told in the Quran (the numbers do not add up if the sacrifice happened before Isaac was born, like Islam and Muslims claim).

     

    Muhammad simply wanted to elbow into the old story and take at least parts of it over for his new religion - not uncommon for starters of new sects or religions. Another fact is that as for the test of Abraham which boy it was in reality is of no consequence - and the test was of Abraham, not of the boys (but Muhammad needed "roots" for his religion, and this is one of the few openings he had). Muslims wants the test to be also of the child, but what kind of a god puts children to that kind of a test? And if the god really was devil enough to put a child to such a test, what real value would the result have as a child largely reacts to how he is influenced, not from a mature intellect?

    247 37/117b: ”And We (Allah*) gave them (Moses and Aaron) the Book - - -”. Muhammad claimed that all real and claimed earlier prophets each received a copy of "the Mother of the Book" (the Quran was Muhammad's such copy), and thus similar or identical to the Quran (exact copies of the same "Mother Book" should be identical). But of these 124ooo or more copies (according to Hadiths) and copies from them again (that was how books were made in the old times), neither science nor Islam has been able to find one single fragment or quotation older than 610 AD when Muhammad started his mission. For a comparison one knows some 45ooo relevant copies, fragments, or quotations from the Bible older than 610 AD. The only possible conclusion is that Muhammad was bluffing about this.

    248 37/122: "- - - they (Moses and Aaron*) were Our (Allah's*) believing Servants (= good Muslims*)". We do not think anyone knowing the Bible needs a comment here.

    249 37/123b: "- - - Elias - - -". In Arab you also will see the name written as Ilyas. In English it normally is written Elijah. For believing Jews and Christians this is a well known name, but it may not be so for others. He was one of the central prophets in OT, and worked in the northern country (Israel - the southern was Judah) during the reigns of the infamous king Ahab (896 - 874 BC) and king Ahaziah (874 - 872 BC). He is mentioned in both 1. and 2. Kings. He according to the Bible is one of the extremely few humans who never died, because he was taken up to Heaven alive in a chariot of fire (2. Kings. 2/11).

    250 37/123-124: "So also was Elias (Elijah in the Bible*) among those sent by Us (Allah*). Behold, he said to his people, 'Will ye not fear Allah?". Some places like here where the Quran mistakes Yahweh for Allah, we do not bother to comment on it, as mistake is so obvious. But the teachings of these two claimed gods are so fundamentally different, that they are not the same - the Quran's claims here simply are not correct. As for Elias, this as said has to be Elijah in the Bible, as Baal is a central theme.

    251 37/130a: (A48 and YA4114A): “Peace and salutation to such as Elias!” But the name used in the Arab text is Il-Yasin, which can mean (the Jewish prophet) “Elias” (also written Elia or Elijah), or “Elias and the ones that followed after him” (according to Tabari and Zamakhshari). A detail – but a god also makes the details clear, and here it is unclear. And these variants of course also are in the Arab text, as the relevant word(s) there has/have more than one meaning. Allah (?) really uses a clear language.

    252 38/4c: "- - - from among themselves - - -". Muhammad stressed that prophets came from the people among whom they should work - that was one of his "alibis" for being a prophet even though he was an Arab. For Jews it was correct - their prophets were Jews. But Jonah was not from Nineveh, Abraham not from Canaan, Lot not from Sodom or Gomorrah, Joseph not from Egypt, Moses not from Midian, to mention some of whom the Quran reckons to be prophets.

    253 38/12a: "Before them (Muhammad's opponents*) (were many who) rejected messengers - - -". Muhammad claimed Allah through all times and to all people had sent messengers - 124ooo through the times is a number mentioned in Hadiths. He even - wrongly - included the old Biblical prophets in this claimed group. But except for the Biblical ones and for Muhammad himself, neither science, nor Islam has found one single trace from any of them anywhere.

    254 38/13b: "- - - the People of Lut (Lot*) - - -". Here is indicated the inhabitants of Sodom (and Gomorrah) were Lot's people, but this is wrong, as it for one thing is very clear both in the Bible and in the Quran, that Lot was not from there (he was from Ur of the Chaldeans in what now is south Iraq), and also from the texts in both the Bible and the Quran it is very clear he was not naturalized into the local society, even though he at that time seems to have lived in or near Sodom. But Muhammad had to say it in this way to be able to claim that prophets (himself included) were sent to their respective people - in the Quran Lot is a prophet - so as to "prove" it was correct that the Arab Muhammad was sent to Arabs.

    255 38/21-24: This story is not from the Bible. But it is likely it is inspired by vague rumors about the story about David and Bathsheba (2. Sam. Ch. 11), or more correct the prophet Nathan's reaction to that story (2. Sam. Ch.12). Besides being differently told, the story in the Quran also is "hanging in the air", because it does not tell the background or reason for it, and thus not what it was all about (David had an affair with a married woman - in spite of all his own wives. When she became pregnant, he had her husband, Uriah, killed to avoid trouble. Nathan rebuked David strongly for this. By the way, that baby later became king Solomon.

    256 38/45b: "- - - Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, possessors of Power and Vision." Visions perhaps, but the Bible never tells any of them had supernatural powers like here is indicated (Abraham is once or twice called a prophet, though, but this was not a central part of his life as told in the Bible).

    257 38/48b: "- - - Ishmael - - -". There is no indication in the Bible for that Ishmael was a prophet. He became the father of 12 tribal rulers (1. Mos. 25/16) "near the border of Egypt" (1. Mos. 25/18), but not a single indication anywhere of being a prophet.

    258 38/48c: "- - - Elisha - - -". The Jewish prophet who succeeded Elijah.

    259 38/48d: "- - - Dhu'l-Kifl - - -". It is not clear if this is a character from the Bible or somewhere, and in case who, though there is a chance it is the Jewish prophet Ezekiel. Clear and unmistakable language in the Quran Muslims claim.

    ##260 38/49b: "- - - the righteous - - -". The Muslims - all good persons the Quran uses from the Bible, included Jesus, were good Muslims.

    ##As also Jesus is claimed to have been a good Muslim, the claimed falsification of the Bible must have happened later - after the good Muslim(?) Jesus had learnt his OT and Gospels. Muslims often claim that it was Ezra - half a millennium before Jesus - who falsified the OT, but if that had been the truth, the claimed good and correctly believer (according to the Quran) Jesus studied a falsified OT (and a falsified Gospel? - in spite of the fact that Gospel did not and could not exist until later). We also would like to see the combined Jewish/Christian commission working on this falsification job and trying to agree on what to falsify and what not - especially about Jesus.

    Another point is that a good Muslim like Jesus hardly studied falsified books - this even more so if he got his copy from Allah/Heaven like Islam tells all prophets received. It is very clear that Jesus read from the books in the Temple and in the synagogues he visited, which means that those books were not falsified - if they had been the good Muslim Jesus had seen that they differed MUCH from his own copy of "the Mother of the Book"/the Quran, as there are enormous differences between the old Jewish scriptures/OT (and NT) and the Quran. As Jesus did not protest to the texts in the synagogues, this thus means they were not falsified. This means that they must have been falsified later. This again means that also this proves it was not Ezra who falsified OT. Muslims and Islam are very good at finding "explanations" for errors and difficult points in the Quran, but all too often overlook or "forget" aspects with the question or with related facts which make their "explanation" impossible. Go looking and you will find this ever so often in Islamic debate and literature, also from persons so well educated that it is impossible they do not know those other killing aspects and/or facts. But then dishonesty is an accepted working tool by Islam - al Taqiyya (the lawful lie) just to mention one kind of lawful dishonesty.

    OT simply was not falsified by Ezra. And as the good Muslim Jesus studied and taught from OT/the old Jewish scriptures, OT cannot have been falsified until after Jesus had finished his teaching. And how to make f.x. Jews and Christians agree on what to falsify f.x. about Messiah, fundamental moral codes, the description of Paradise compared to Allah's Paradise, etc. afterwards?

    Nonsense.

    261 40/15d: "- - - the spirit (of inspiration) - - -". Muhammad claimed he got his information from his god by means of inspiration, and many places in the Quran you find he claims all other prophets received their information the same way - which in case would make Muhammad’s claim that he himself got it by inspiration, a normal way of divine communication, and thus Muhammad a normal prophet. As far as we can find the word "inspiration" is not used in such connections anywhere in the Bible, and thus not normal for Biblical prophets.<

    262 40/50a: "Did there not come to you messengers with Clear Signs (about Allah*) - - -". No, there did not. The only messengers who perhaps had clear signs, were some of the old Jewish ones, and they in case had signs about Yahweh, not about Allah. (If Muslims disagree, it just is for them to produce a few proofs, and we will correct our texts - but Muslims have till now proved exactly nothing concerning central points in the Quran, there only are loose words and as loose claims.

    263 40/55a: "- - - (the Book*) - - - A Guide and a Message to (the Jews*) - - -". This may well be true as far as the "Books of Moses" go. But beware that Muhammad claimed what Moses - and all other prophets - got, was a copy of the claimed "Mother Book" from Allah - similar to the Quran (which the bad Jews and Christians later falsified and made into the Bible instead - and as Jesus is claimed to have been a good Muslim, the falsifications must have been made later: Dignified Jews Pharisees in black suits sitting down with as honorable bishops to agree on what to falsify, and how the two religions now should be changed, and not least what to falsify about Messiah (Jesus) in OT. And not to forget how to falsify all old manuscripts, and how to do it in such ways that future experts would be unable to find out anything about what was falsified - and of course how to do it without the congregations on 3 continents discovered that things had been falsified and changed, and how to falsify the scrolls which existed in each and every synagogue without the believing Jews noticed anything (and remember here that the changes in the texts had to be enormous).

    We will have to hope that persons like Mr. H. C. Andersen and the Grimm brothers were members of the commission - and perhaps dr. Isaac Asimov as an adviser about future techniques concerning fraud detection to circumnavigate or cheat future experts.

    ####264 40/70d: (A40/52 - English 2008 edition A40/51): "Since, as the Quran often points out, the fundamental truths set forth in all divine revelations are the same, a rejection of the last of them (the Quran*) amounts to a rejection of all the preceding ones (the Bible*)". Both these claims are wrong. Many of the fundamental truths are far from the same. The fundamental differences between the basic thoughts and rules, ethics and moral, etc. in the Quran and in the Bible - and especially compared to NT and its New Covenant (f. x. Luke 22/20) - are so enormous, that there is a Ginnunga Gap - or abyss - (see the Vikings' religion and geography where it represents geographically the very end of the world) between them. The gap between the Quran and NT is such that in stark contradiction to Mr. Asad’s claim here, is not possible not to reject the Quran if one believes in NT - and the same goes for the Quran compared to the Mosaic religion, even though the abyss may be a little - little - less there. Muhammad was way away from the "road" of the old prophets - not in the same line at all, also this in 180 degree contradiction of Islam's never proved claim (a claim only possible to believe in for persons not knowing the Bible or believing in the disproved claim that the Bible was much falsified).

    265 41/25c: "- - - Jinns - - -". A being "borrowed" from old Arab folklore and pagan religion. In spite of Muhammad's claims of being in the same tradition and the really same religion as the old prophets, not one of the old Jewish prophets has mentioned them, and neither did Jesus mention them. They also are not mentioned other places in the Bible.

    ###266 41/43a: “Nothing is said to thee (Muhammad*) that was not said to the messengers before thee (Muhammad*) (f.x. to Jesus and the old Jewish prophets*) - - -.” Wrong. As both science and Islam thoroughly have proved that the Bible is not falsified – and especially strong proofs for NT – it is very clear that what Muhammad claimed to have been told, often is far from what the real prophets and patriarchs had been told. And this is strengthened by the fact that it very often is very clear that Muhammad took his “Biblical” stories not from the Bible, but from religious legends (often even based on apocryphal scriptures and stories, not the Bible) that circulated in the area, and which Muhammad believed was from the Bible - - - and then later he had only one way out how to explain the errors compared to the real Bible: To claim he was right and the Bible falsified!!!. As for the quotation above, it is not true that nothing was said to Muhammad that was not said to earlier (real) prophets – a fact that Islam even confirms sometimes – f.x. in the statement from Muhammad that he was the first “messenger/prophet” who had got permission from the god to steal and rob and rape, which the god according to the Quran even confirms is “god and lawful”.

    To be impolite, but truthful: The Quran's claim here is rubbish.

    267 42/3c: “Thus doth (He (Allah*)) send inspiration to thee (Muhammad*) as He did to those (prophets*) before thee - - -.” This is directly wrong and contradicted by the Bible - but in this case we do not accuse Muhammad of lying - he did not know the Bible and most likely just said what he wanted his audience to hear, not knowing whether it was right or wrong. For Muhammad it was essential to impress on his audience and followers that he was a normal prophet just like the old ones in the Bible. Because of that you find that a large part of the stories are told like parallels to Muhammad's life and activity - so also here; Muhammad claimed he got most of his claimed information from Allah via inspiration, and then the old prophets had to have received it in the same way for Muhammad to be similar to them. Unluckily the Bible tells that Yahweh only used direct contact (Abraham, Moses, Samuel, Jesus, and a few more), visions, and dreams (4. Mos. 12/6-7). Sending messages to prophets by means of inspiration is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    ###268 42/3d: (A42/2): "I.e. the basic truths propounded in the Quranic revelation - - - are the same as those revealed to the earlier (Jewish*) prophets". To be very polite: This is not true. There are oceans between Muhammad and the Jewish prophets - deep fundamental differences and contradictions, especially compared to Jesus and his new covenant. Muhammad was not in that line of prophets - not even in the same moral world - and with a basically very different religion - one of war and suppression, dishonesty and apartheid, simply 180 degree contradiction to Jesus' teachings and a lot different from the older prophets, too.

    The fact is that the many and deep differences between the messages in the Bible and the Quran are one of the absolute proofs for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god.

    269 42/41a: "But indeed if any do help and defend themselves after a wrong is (done) to them (= they take revenge for the wrong*), against such there is no cause of blame". Compare this to f.x. "turn the other cheek" (f.x. Matt. 5/39) or "love your enemies" (f.x. Matt. 5/44). One of the 100% proofs for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god, and for that Jesus and Muhammad are not in the same moral league - or line of prophets (this even if Muhammad had been a real prophet - see f.x. 9/88b above).

    270 43/6-8: “But how many were the prophets We (Allah*) sent (a rhetoric question as Hadith tells there were at least 124ooo*) amongst the peoples of the old? But never came there a prophet to them but they mocked him. So we destroyed them (the mocking people*) - - -”. With this many prophets, Allah must have destroyed millions. The expression “wholesale slaughter” is insignificant in the extreme here. Yahweh in OT is hardly a baby in this competition.

    Another point is that the claim is not true. Most of the old Jewish prophets were respected, not mocked. (There were many more prophets than the ones named in the Bible, and the ones mentioned there, mainly were the ones who happened to come in opposition to powers, and thus part of - often moral - strife.)

    271 43/7: "And never came there a prophet to them (the people of the old*) but they mocked him". Muhammad was much mocked in Mecca, and tales like this were good for claiming his situation was normal for prophets. But it is not true. There were prophets in the old Israel/Judah who were not mocked - f.x. Samuel. See 43/6-8.

    p>272 43/53: "Then why are not gold bracelets bestowed on him (Moses*), or (why) come (not) with him angels accompanying him in procession?" These were questions Muhammad got from skeptics, and it is remarkable how eager Muhammad was to project his own position in life and his own problems, into the claimed lives of earlier prophets or claimed prophets - a way of telling his followers and others that his problems were normal ones for prophets, and thus that he was a normal prophet. That the above topics are not mentioned in the Bible at all, did not matter - he got a little legitimating from it.

     

    ##273 43/59b: “He (Jesus*) was no more than a servant - - -”. Possible. But there is still the funny fact that thousands according to the Bible heard him call Yahweh “father”. Whereas only one man - and a man of very questionable character and ethics, claims the opposite - and this even a man who had much to gain from Jesus being not the son of God. And he claimed it as much as 600 years later without any kind of documentation. Muhammad had to reduce Jesus - if not he himself could not be the greatest of prophets, and his religion impossibly could compete with Christianism if Jesus was not reduced.

    #274 43/63d: “(Jesus said*): fear Allah and obey me - - -.” This is really is Muhammad’s slogan – he wanted power, that much is easy to see from the Quran, and religion/Allah was his Platform of Power. And many places in the Quran it becomes clear that Muhammad wants everyone to believe he was a “normal” (but top) prophet (actually he was no real prophet, as he did not have the gift of making prophesies – see chapter about Muhammad in "1000+ Mistakes in the Quran" or 9/885 above.), and then it was nice if Jesus used the same words like Muhammad and showed this was normal ways for prophets to talk. But one of the really – and one of many - fundamental differences between Jesus and Muhammad (and for that case between f.x. Buddha and Muhammad and also between most of the Jewish prophets and Muhammad), was that Jesus was absolutely not interested in power on this Earth. Consequently this slogan that Muhammad very frequently used to secure his power, was meaningless for Jesus. (The Quran does not oppose this fact: That Jesus preached, but he did not seek power on Earth.)

    Also the verse below can be taken as part of a strategy for reducing Jesus from something special to something ordinary – at least an ordinary prophet – to make it easier for Muhammad to be number one (another obvious example: During Muhammad’s claimed trip to heaven, Jesus lived in the lowest of the prophets’ heavens – heaven number 2. Whereas other known prophets from the Bible lived higher up and closer to the god, and Muhammad was to be given place in the 7. heaven, the closest one to the deity):

    Finally there is the death and resurrection of Jesus. If that really happened, Jesus clearly was at least one division higher up than Muhammad. So according to Muhammad and the Quran it did not happen.

    275 43/81b: “If (Allah) Most Gracious had a son, I (Muhammad*) would be the first to worship”. Some proof!! But for that: There still is Jesus calling Yahweh father. And any neutral professor of history would say that according to all normal rules, the Bible should be more reliable than the Quran as a source of correct history: Very much closer in time to Jesus, thousands of witnesses, many narrators, versus one single narrator without good sources and 600 years later - and even a man of dubious character and with strong motif to reduce Jesus, to become the greatest prophet himself - and a man clearly lusting for power (just read the Quran and the Hadiths - it is easy to see f.x. his gluing himself to the god and platform of power.). A man who definitely had not been accepted as a reliable witness in any country with a reliable judicial system. (The real and historical Muhammad was something quite different from the glossy semi-saint Islam and Muslims claims – a claim made necessary because all Islam only is built on this man’s words - if he lies, the religion is a false one). Also: Science has showed that the never documented Islamic claim about falsification of the Bible is wrong.

    276 44/3f: (A44/4): "The revelation of the Quran is but a continuation and, indeed, the climax of all divine revelations which has been going on since the very dawn of human consciousness".

    To comment on the last first: How far back do we have to go to find forefathers who were not conscious beings? There f.x. is no doubt that Homo Erectus were conscious beings - but how much further back in time to find "the very dawn of human consciousness"? At least a few million years. Which means that Islam has been taught on Earth for a few million years at least - and books sent down to the "messengers". (Science reckons it is some 7 million years since our forefathers split from what was to become the chimpanzees and bonobos.) You are free to believe it if you want, but no trace of Islam older than 610 AD when Muhammad started his preaching, has ever been found anywhere.

    But the main point here is that the Quran is so different from the Bible, and especially from NT and its New Covenant, and Muhammad so different from the Jewish prophets included Jesus, that it takes a lot of naivety or/and blindness to be able to believe in claims that Muhammad belonged to the Jewish line of prophets or that Islam is from the same god as the two other religions. That someone makes an undocumented claim does not mean that the claim is true - and when it is claimed in a book full of mistakes, told by a man of a very doubtful moral, but with much to gain from making people believe in his new religion, there are extra reasons for being careful.

    The Quran simply is an apocryphal book far away from Yahweh. So far away that it normally is not even counted among the apocryphal ones.

    277 44/18c: "I (Moses*) am to you a Messenger worthy of all trust". This was one of the claims Muhammad told about himself, and in the Quran you find several claimed or real (?) prophets using the same expression - it impressed on Muhammad's followers that this was a normal statement for prophets, and thus that it for one thing was ok for Muhammad to demand all trust from them, and for another that he was a normal prophet behaving like other prophets.

    278 46/9c: "I (Muhammad*) am no bringer of newfangled doctrine among the Messengers - - -". Wrong. Muhammad's teachings fundamentally was so different from the prophets in the old Jewish line in story (the only of the prophets he meant, of whom there are other sources), in moral, in ethics, in religious basic thoughts, in judicial questions, that he very clearly is outside that line - far outside. This is especially clear when one compares with Jesus and his New Covenant (f. x. Luke 22/20) - a covenant Muslims never mention and one most of them have never heard about.

    279 44/54b: "- - - Companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes". The famous houris. Their existence in the Paradise is contradicted in the Bible - or at least never mentioned, and the bad Jews and Christians and the reliable - also according to the Quran - Jesus and all the other Biblical prophets, had not forgotten such a juicy temptation. Also see 13/1g and 67/9c - 2 strong ones. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    The ideas of houris to "serve" good Muslim men, Muhammad borrowed from the pagan Persia, where they were named paaris. It is one of the really strong proofs for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god - if they had been, their Paradise had been one and the same. Implicit it also proves that Jesus and Muhammad were not in the same religion. The same goes for the other old Jewish prophets - not in the same religion as Muhammad.

    280 46/9j: "I (Muhammad*) follow but that (the Quran*) which is revealed to me by Inspiration - - -". Muhammad claimed he got most of his messages by inspiration - a most convenient means: Impossible for others to check, easy to subtract from, easy to add to, easy to make up convenient points. As Muhammad claimed to be in the Jewish tradition of prophets, we also add that the word "inspiration" never is mentioned in the Bible in such connections - also a difference between the old prophets and the self proclaimed prophet Muhammad.

    281 48/23a: "(Such has been) the practice (approved) of Allah in the past - - -". Impossible to know, as there is no trace of Allah older than 610 AD when Muhammad started his new religion. (Muslims claim that what Yahweh did, is what Allah did, as they as normal without any documentation claim those two were the same god, but this claim is wrong, as the basic ideas in their teachings fundamentally are too different). This in addition to the fact that there is no trace from a god like Allah, a book like the Quran, or a religion like Islam older than 610 AD when Muhammad started his mission.

    What is ever so sure, though, is that the practice for thieving/robbing, rape, suppression, blood, war + dishonesty was not the practice neither of the Jewish prophets from Yahweh or of Jesus. One of the strong proofs for that f.x. Jesus was in a religion totally different from Muhammad's.

    282 51/52: "- - - no messenger came to the Peoples (anywhere in the world*), but they said (of him (wrong, as there also were a few women like Miriam and Huldah*)) in like manner, 'A sorcerer or one possessed". This is wrong, as such accusations are not reported for a number of the Biblical prophets. But Muhammad was accused of this, and then it was good psychology to tell that this was normal for all prophets or messengers and thus that Muhammad was a normal such one.

    ##283 52/20b: “- - - and We (Allah*) shall join them to Companions, with beautiful big and lustrous eyes.” The famous houris. Like 37/48 and 42/25 above – see them. The introduction of houris by Muhammad into Islam seems to come from old Persian pagan religion.

    One of the really strong proofs for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god - their paradises are too different. And the fact that Jesus prohibited polygamy in any form - and also rape (sex where the woman/houris has no choice) - is one of the really strong proofs for that Jesus and Muhammad did not belong to the same religion, not to mention the same line of prophets.

    ###284 53/56: “This is a Warner (Muhammad*), of the (series of) Warners of the old”. Muhammad impressed and impressed and impressed on his followers that he was one of a long series – though the greatest of all – of prophets (even though he per definition was no prophet, as he did not have the gift of making prophesies – he just “borrowed” that prestigious title), as that gave him “weight” and prestige. And to belong to the one timeless “right” religion, also gave his teachings weight among the ones that believed it (Science have never found any traces of a religion like Islam anywhere or any time before 610 AD – if they had, you bet Islam had told about it.) But he in case definitely did not belong to the same series as the Jewish prophets, included Jesus – the teachings, not to mention their actual lives and deeds and moral codes, were too different. AND they made prophesies - real prophesies – which he was unable to.

    285 54/9d: "Here is one possessed!" This was some of what was said about Muhammad, too. If you read the Quran you will see that more or less all the Biblical and other claimed prophets, in the Quran experience the same problems like Muhammad. This told his followers - and others - that his problems were normal for prophets, and thus that Muhammad was a normal prophet. Psychologically good stories for people not used to critical thinking. But the stories are not like in the Bible.

    286 55/56c: "- - - (Maidens), chaste - - - whom no man or Jinn before them (the Muslims in Paradise*) has touched - - -". The houris are virgins at arrival, but hardly for a long time. (Well, their hymen regrows fast, and then they are "virgins" again.)

    Compare this to f.x. Matt.22/30: "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven". 200+% sure that Yahweh and Allah do not run the same paradise, and thus are not the same god. And as these are the words of Jesus: As sure that Jesus and Muhammad do not belong in the same moral world neither in this nor in a possible next life. A lot of things in this world are not true even if they are repeated often - f.x. that Jesus and Muhammad belong to the same line of prophets (in addition to that Muhammad was no real prophet - he had not the gift of prophesying).

    287 57/25a: "We (Allah*) sent aforetime Our messengers - - -". The Quran claims that Allah has sent prophets to all people through all times preaching Islam - included the old Jewish prophets(!) - but that the teaching has been falsified or superseded by false religions. The Hadiths mentions the number 124ooo prophets/messengers, and the "real" number must be even higher. Except for the old Jewish ones and Muhammad, neither science nor Islam has been able to find the slightest traces from any of them.

    ###288 57/25c: "- - - (Allah*) sent with them (the 124ooo claimed earlier prophets/messengers included the old Jewish ones*) the Book (a claimed copy of the claimed "Mother of the Book" - the same one the Quran is a claimed exact copy of*) - - -". ####This is one of the places where the Quran makes it clear that the claimed earlier prophets/messengers also got their book similar to the Quran - a copy of the claimed timeless "Mother of Books" revered by Allah and his angels in his Heaven. And copies of the same book has to be identical - if not Islam has got another problem to explain.

    Neither science nor Islam has found the slightest traces from or references to such a book older than 610 AD when Muhammad started his mission. From the Bible and relevant references to the Bible science has found altogether some 45ooo manuscripts and fragments. This discrepancy exists even though according to the Quran copies similar to the Quran has existed on Earth as long as man has existed - even though for most of that time he did not know how to read - and even though Allah sent down at least one copy to each of his messengers and prophets (at least 124ooo according to Hadiths) + all the copies which naturally were written from those copies, just like from the Bible.

    Are the age and the quantities of the Qurans bluffs?

    ##289 57/26c: "- - - Right Guidance - - -". Here indicated Islam. The Quran claims the old Jewish prophets - and it’s many, many other claimed prophets - were teaching Islam, but that they were superseded by paganism or twisted into Jewism or Christianism. As for the last 2 mentioned religion, the Quran is proved wrong on this point both by science and even stronger by Islam. As for superseded by paganism, it is up to you to believe it, but there never was found one trace from Islam older than 610 AD when Muhammad started his new religion. Also: Allah cannot have much power if he could be superseded by each and every pagan god and spirit.

    290 61/5b: “Why do ye (Jews*) wex and insult me, though ye know that I (Moses*) am the Messenger of Allah (sent) to you (Jews*) - - -.” This sentence is not from the Bible. But it makes Moses' life look like a parallel to Muhammad's life, and thus document that Muhammad's life was a normal one for prophets - and thus that Muhammad was a normal prophet. If you read the Quran, you will see that this is done to all the prophets Muhammad tells about in the Quran, with the partly exception of Jesus (the story of Jesus was too well known, and not all of it could thus be "adjusted").

    291 61/5c: “- - - I (Moses*) am the Messenger of Allah (sent) to you (Jews*) - - -.” Allah or Yahweh? The Quran uses the name Allah for the god of the old Jews many places, claiming it is the same god. Often we have not “arrested” it, but the claim is not correct, as the teachings basically are far too different. Simply contradicted by the Bible. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    ###292 61/6d: “- - - (Jesus said*) I am the Messenger of Allah - - -”. Contradicted by the Bible and by reality. If Jesus had said something like this about the known polytheistic god al-Lah from a not too distant foreign country, for one thing he had not got many followers, and for another: The clergy had at once had had an excuse for having him killed – and long before they really did. This verse is composed by someone not knowing the religious and political realities in Israel around 30 AD. Similar claims in 4/157 - 5/72 – 5/117. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    ####But remember that we now are in times of written history. There were no book like the Quran, no god like Allah, and no religion like Islam anywhere in or near the Roman Empire (of which Israel was a part) at the time of Jesus - not until more than 600 years later. But we know for sure that at the time of Jesus Yahweh and the Mosaic religion ruled the Jews at that time. The Quran is very wrong here - documented by written history.

    293 61/6e: “- - - (Jesus said that he came for*) confirming the Law (of Moses*) - - -.” What he according to the Bible said, was that he had not come to finish that law, but to fulfill the law and to save souls – which was not the same as he should confirm the old laws or was prohibited from changing them or finish them. What he actually did according both to the Bible (f.x. Matt. 15/11-20, Mark 7/14-19, Acts 10/10-16). and to the Quran (3/50), was to change parts of the laws of Moses and a number of other Jewish laws, and according to the Bible (f.x. Luke 22/20), he was making a new covenant between man and Yahweh which itself “de facto” changed or terminated many of those old laws – a covenant Muslims never mention. To find the essence of it, read about “the Last Supper” in the Bible. (There were at least 12 witnesses to that supper, and they told about it to many afterwards.) F.x. Luke 22/20.

    But did he really change anything? He said (Matt. 22/37-39): "'Love the Lord your God (Yahweh*) with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind'. This is the first and the greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself'. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments". If this is the sum of the law, Jesus did not change the essence of the Law of Moses - he just adjusted some details and strengthened that law, included removing or softening many of the harsh point, etc. (And he changed or terminated a number of younger Jewish laws.)

    #####Also according to the Quran (3/50a) Jesus changed parts of the old laws:

    The Quran says in 3/50: "(I (Jesus*) have come to you) to attest the Law (of Moses*) which was before me. ####And to make lawful to you (people*) part of what was (before) forbidden to you - - -". According to this Jesus clearly had the power to change old laws - and he did so. 3/50 also makes it clear that this was one of his purposes.

    The Quran says in 5/15: "- - - ####and passing over much (of the old laws and rules in the Bible*) (that is now unnecessary) - - -". A number of the old laws and rules were not necessary any more, and could be omitted or changed.

    What he actually did according both to the Bible and to the Quran, was to change or adjust parts of the laws of Moses, and according to the Bible he also was making a new covenant between man and Yahweh which itself “de facto” changed or terminated many of those old laws – a covenant Muslims never mention. To find the essence of it, read about “the Last Supper” in the Bible. (There were at least 12 witnesses to that supper, and they told about it to many afterwards.) F.x. Luke 22/20.

    ##294 62/2f: “It is He (Allah*) Who has sent amongst the Unlettered a Messenger from among themselves - - - “. Muhammad made much out of his claim that he was from among his own people like all (wrong) other prophets, and used the claimed fact that all prophets were from among their own people - according the Quran, not in reality - as a "proof" or at least an indication for that he was a real prophet. (The claim was wrong, though, as some of the Biblical prophets did not work among their own people - Abraham and Lot both were from what is now Iraq, but worked in Canaan (now Israel), Joseph was from what is now Israel, but worked in Egypt, Moses was a native of Egypt, but worked 40 years in Midian, the Jew Jonah worked in Nineveh (the capital of Assyria), to mention some of the Quran's prophets.

    295 64/6a: "- - - there came to them (an unspecified people or tribe*) messengers - - -". Muhammad claimed that to all people and to all times Allah had sent messengers/prophets teaching Islam - Hadiths mention the number 124ooo, and even that number may be too low. Neither science nor Islam has found one single trace from any of them or from Islam, anywhere or any time before 610 AD when Muhammad started his new religion (except the Jewish prophets, and they were from Yahweh, not from Allah - two different gods in spite of Muhammad's claims about the opposite).

    296 65/8b: "- - - His (Allah's*) Messengers - - -". The Quran claims that all people to all times off and on have been sent prophets/messengers teaching Islam - Hadiths mentions the number 124ooo through the times. Neither science nor Islam has ever fond one single trace from them, so believe the claim if you are able to. It also is mathematical and psychological illogical that a relatively few prophets should establish Jewism, one Christianity, and one self proclaimed one Islam - - - and all the others not leave a trace, even though they preached a similar religion according to Islam.

    297 68/48b: "- - - the Companion of the Fish - - -". Jonah. For readers not knowing the Bible: Jonah run away to the sea from his duty as a prophet/seer for Yahweh. Yahweh sent a terrible weather threatening to sink the ship he was on board, and he was thrown overboard. Yahweh made a big fish swallow him, but throw him up at a shore 3 days later, when Jonah had agreed to go to Nineveh - the capital of Assyria - to preach. We may add that also here the Quran is contradicted by the Bible, which says that Jonah's god was Yahweh, not Allah. Also see 67/9c above - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

    Quite another thing is that there is no fish swallowing so big whole pieces of food as a grown man. (This includes f.x. the Orca - the Killer Whale - which also is no fish, but an animal.) Another fact is that the story about Jonah in the fish, demands at least 2 miracles - air to breathe, and not to be killed by the acid juices in the stomach of the fish.

    298 68/49a: “Had not Grace from his (Jonah’s*) Lord (Allah - though Yahweh according to the Bible*) reached him, he would indeed have been cast off on a naked shore, in disgrace.” Contradiction:

    1. 37/45: “But We (Allah*) cast him (Jonah*) forth on the naked shore in a state of sickness.” An exactly 180 degree contradiction.

     

    ###299 70/29-30: “And those who guard their chastity, except with their wives and the (captives) whom their right hands possess (= slaves*) – for (then) they are not to be blamed - - -.” There is no blame for raping a captive woman taken captive in the name of Allah, or your slave women – just how and how often you want. A good and benevolent god with an excellent moral (at least for the Muslim free man).

    "Do against others like you want other do against you" (Luke 6/31).

    One of the really strong proofs for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god, and for that Jesus and Muhammad are not in the same line of prophets (in addition to that Muhammad was not really a prophet. see 9/88b above.

    It is verses like this - and worse - which make people with normal moral codes - codes in reasonable nearness to "do to others like you want others do to you" - sometimes want to puke over the Quran and over Islam.

    300 71/1-20: Like Muhammad at this time (621 - 622 AD), Noah (and other claimed prophets Muhammad told about) had limited success - just like Muhammad. "Ergo" Muhammad was a normal prophet with normal problems. True? More or less all claimed and real prophets in the Quran were parallels to Muhammad at the time when the different surahs were told - just read the Quran with open eyes, and you will see this. We may add that even though the story roughly follows the Bible, the details are very different. As they are not from the Bible and not from a god - no book with so much wrong like the Quran is from any god - where did Muhammad get them from?

    301 71/2a: "O my (Noah's*) People!" I am to you a Warner, clear and open - - -". Exactly Muhammad's own words. See 71/1-20 just above.

    302 71/3b: "- - - fear Him (Allah*) and obey me (Noah*) - - -". This was one of Muhammad's demands, and then it was good psychology that other claimed prophets said the same - in the Quran even Jesus said this according to Muhammad, even though he normally just said "follow me", not "obey me" - something very different - according to NT. One more indication for that those two were not in the same religion. Also see 71/1-20 above.

    303 71/23a: "And they (claimed opponents of Noah*) have said - - -: 'Abandon not - - -'" For one thing: Note the close parallel to Muhammad's experience in 621 - 622 AD when this surah was published - Noah like all other prophets with the partly exception of Jesus, was made to look like a parallel to Muhammad - "it showed" that Muhammad's problems were normal for real prophets, and indicated thus that Muhammad was a real prophet. Just read the Quran and you will see how often and how obvious this technique was used. For another thing: This is one more time anomaly.

    #304 71/23b: "Wadd - - - Suwa' - - - Yaghuth - - - Ya'uq - - - Nasr - - -". 5 gods which were cherished in Arabia at the time of Muhammad. But Muhammad claimed these gods were cherished by Noah's people somewhere in southern Mesopotamia (now southern Iraq) 2500 years earlier. What were the chances those people had the same gods as in the distant Arabia some 100 generations later? Muslims of course say these gods were imported from Mesopotamia and were are-old - but there exist no documentation for this at all; just one more of Islam's many not proved claims. Worse: Science believes they were imported from Syria, not from Mesopotamia + that in the old times when there were no books to make ideas permanent, gods slowly changed over the generations - they were not the same through 2500 years. (Just compare to all the chances the god Il went through: First he was the main god Il somewhere in the east (perhaps in south Mesopotamia where one also believes Noah lived - if he is not fiction). Then in Arabia he slowly became the moon god al-Ilah, at least in the southern part. Then he developed into the main god of Arabia, al-Lah and got lots of daughters - angels and goddesses. Then his name drifted towards Allah, but still a pagan main god. And finally Muhammad dressed him up to become the monotheistic god Allah. (But unless everything in the Quran is true, included the never proved claim that the book is from a god, Allah still is a pagan, made up god.)

    Wrong unless Islam proves - proves, not claims - differently.

    ####305 72/7d: (A72/5): "The overwhelming majority of the Jews were convinced that no prophet would be raised after those who were explicitly mentioned in the Old Testament: hence their rejection of Jesus and, of course, Muhammad - - -". This is utterly wrong, even according to the Quran and Islam itself. It is very clearly foretold in the OT that a mighty prophet - the Messiah (Christ in Greek) - should come once upon a time. This is very well known also in Islam, as they use f.x. Moses' words about a future prophet "like himself" in 5.Mos. 18/15 and 18/18 to claim foretelling about Muhammad - so intensely well known in Islam that there is no chance Mr. Asad did not know about it - the claim simply is one of the al-Taqiyyas (lawful lies) in Islam. It also is a school example of the many cases where Muslims tries to "explain" away things by "explaining" one or some aspect(s) of something, but forget that other texts or even facts kills the "explanation". Sometimes - like here - such tries are perfectly helpless. It also is one of the many examples of the degree of honesty among at least some Muslim scholars.

    ###The reason why the Jews rejected Jesus was that he was so very different from the mighty king they had dreamt of, the mighty king who should throw out the Romans for them. Why they did not accept Muhammad is even easier to see - Muhammad and his god and religion were so far out compared to both the OT and NT that no somewhat learned person with a minimum of brain would be able to believe that Muhammad "confirmed" Yahweh or Jesus or their teaching. It neither was nor is possible that Yahweh and Allah are the same god - not unless he is strongly schizophrenic.

    *306 87/19aa: “The Books of Moses - - - ”. Here is referred either to the 5 "Books of Moses" in the Bible - but they were written centuries after Moses - or likely to the claimed copy of "the Mother of the Book" in Heaven Muhammad claimed - like normal for him without any proofs - that all prophets and messengers received (= twins to the Quran). There never was found the tiniest trace of such a Quran-like book anywhere in the world older than 610 AD when Muhammad started his mission.

    #307 87/19b: (YA6094): "There is a book in Greek (likely written in Egypt*), which has been translated by Mr. G.H. Box, called the Testament of Abraham (published by the Society for the Promotion of Christian knowledge, London, 1927). It seems to be a Greek translation of a Hebrew original. The Greek text was probably written in the second Christian century, in Egypt (then mainly a Christian country*), but in its present form it probably goes back only to the 9th or 10t century. It was popular among the Christians. Perhaps the Jewish Midrash also refers to a Testament of Abraham".

    What do you think about this book and about Abraham and books when you read this?

    ####And what do you think about Muslim way of "informing" people when we add that this is an apocryphal - made up - book, a fact which is well known, so well that there is no chance a learned man like Muhammad Yusuf Ali did not know about it - - - without mentioning this fact even with a whisper in his comment. He also never mentions the fact that even though Abraham lived (if he ever lived) some 2ooo - 1800 BC, and thus "his" book had to be that old and a very central book as it was from Abraham, is never referred to in any of the old confirmed Jewish scriptures. ######This kind of dishonesty you meet a little too often in Islamic religious literature.

    We may add that there also exist similar "Testament of Isaac" and "Testament of Jacob". And that no Christian and no Jewish religious institution regard it as a scripture, except a small Jewish one in Ethiopia - it is an apocryphal and made up one.

    An informative sample of al-Taqiyya - the Lawful Lie (something you only find in Islam among the big religions - actually the only place we have heard there once was similar rules for dishonesty, was in a small tribal pagan religion on New Guinea once upon a time) - something a Muslim can use in 8-10 wide cases (f.x. to cheat women or to save his money), and which not only are permitted, but should be used "if necessary" to defend or promote Islam". No further comments should be necessary.

    #308 87/19d: "The books of Moses - - -". (YA6095): "The original Revelation of Moses, of which the Present Pentateuch (the 5 books of Moses*) is a surviving recension - - -". This is so wrong that it deserves no comment, except that it is written by the same man who wrote the comment in 87/19b above. For your information: He is reckoned to be a top scholar and writer in Islam. When such a man writes things like this, how serious are then the lesser Muslim scholars?

    ###We may add that even the oldest copies and fragment of what often is called "the Books of Moses" or "the Pentateuch" are more or less identical to the present ones (there may be minimal differences a few places because they are copied by hand, and then such things can happen). And as essential: There never was found even one fragment from those books with contents close to that in the Quran - Muhammad claimed the Bible originally was similar to the Quran, but falsified by the bad Jews and Christians. (It was his only way to explain away the differences between what he told the Bible said - he took his material from verbal legends, fairy tales etc. - and what the Bible really said.) This never proved - very normal for Muhammad and for Islam - claim from Muhammad and from the Quran simply is wrong, unless Islam proves - proves - the opposite.

    Facts according to science: Moses according to the Bible had one book - the so-called "Book of Covenant" - in practice the law. The Pentateuch - what we call "the Books of Moses" were written centuries later and not earlier than around 800 BC (Moses lived around 1300-1200 BC). "The Book of Covenant" is mentioned a few times through the centuries in the Bible, but there never even is hinted that Moses had other books. There even is specified that when Solomon had the Ark of Covenant installed in his new temple, there were no books in it, only the 2 stone tablets (1. Kings 8/9). It is told that Book of the Law was refound (2. Kings 22/8) but no other relevant book is ever mentioned in the Bible - and no other place ever - - - except by Muhammad. And Muhammad like normal never was able to prove anything essential about his claims.

    We add that these are so well-known facts, that there is no chance Abdullah Yusuf Ali did not know it. So much for the reliability of one of the absolute top Muslim scholars even in modern times (born 14. Apr. 1872, died 10. Dec. 1953). How reliable are then lesser Muslim scholars?

    309 91/1: "By the Sun - - -". Muhammad/Allah swearing by the sun - sentences in the Quran starting with "by" normally are oaths. One of the clear indications in the Quran for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god, and for that Jesus and Muhammad are not in the same line of prophets like the Quran likes to claim (in addition to that Muhammad was no real prophet - he "did not see the unseen (3/144, 6/50,7/188,10/20, 27/65, 46/9, 72/26, 81/24)" so he was unable to make prophesies (even though some Muslims try to claim the opposite in contradiction to what the Quran says itself), and a "prophet" unable to make prophesies, is no real prophet - - - but it is an impressive and imposing title to "borrow" - many a self proclaimed messenger from one or more gods have "borrowed" this title).

    In the Bible it is clear that if you swear all the same, you have to honor your oath, whereas in the Quran you can break any oath if that gives a better result - pay expiation if necessary (but to be fair: The Quran advises not to break a confirmed oath (!) if there is not a good reason. To break other oaths matters little. This part is a strong proof for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same goes, and for that Jesus and Muhammad do not belong to the same religion - the moral code fundamentally is too different.)

    310 100/1b: "By the (Steeds) - - -". Muhammad/Allah swearing by the steeds - sentences in the Quran starting with "by" normally are oaths in the Quran. One of the clear proofs in the Quran for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god, and for that Jesus and Muhammad are not in the same line of prophets like the Quran likes to claim (in addition to that Muhammad was no real prophet - he "did not see the unseen (3/144, 6/50,7/188,10/20, 27/65, 46/9, 72/26, 81/24)" so he was unable to make prophesies (even though some Muslims try to claim the opposite in contradiction to what the Quran says itself), and a "prophet" unable to make prophesies, is no real prophet - - - but it is an impressive and imposing title to "borrow" - many a self proclaimed messenger from one or more gods have "borrowed" this title.

    310 + 3552 = 3862 comments (+ basic comments/introductions).


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    This work was upload with assistance of M. A. Khan, editor of islam-watch.org and the author of "Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism, and Slavery".