Muhammad in the Quran, Vol. 4: Chapter 81


PREDESTINATION - SOME OF ITS OBVIOUS AND LOGICAL EFFECTS

It is a matter of course that a claim as strong as "a god predestines absolutely everything" and predestining it according to "his Plan, which nobody and nothing can change", must have some effects. Some of these Islam is unable to explain, even if the effects are most serious for the religion. The most obvious of the serious ones, in addition to that it is not possible even for a god to combine full predestination for Allah with even a little piece of free will for man, is that prayers cannot have any effect, and forgiving by Allah is impossible, as both means that Allah's Plan has to be changed, something which clearly is impossible according to many verses in the Quran.

Muhammad needed predestination to get more - and less afraid - warriors. But he never was able to explain his claims that predestination did not kill other parts of his religion. 3 very central points which are not possible if Allah predestines everything, and does so according to his Plan which "nobody and nothing can change", are free will for man, effect of prayers, and forgiving, which all 3 means that Allah's Plan has to be changed.

It sometimes is strange to watch the lack of logic in Islam.

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001 2/187d: "- - - (Allah*) forgave you - - -". Wrong. Allah can forgive nobody unless he for one exists and for two is a god, neither of which is documented.

But can at all Allah forgive? - even if he should happen to be a god? The Quran MANY places states that Allah predestines absolutely everything, and he predestines it according to his Plan, which nobody and nothing can change. And he predestines it long time before it is going to happen - he f.x. according to Hadiths predestines whether you are going to end in Hell or Heaven already when you are a 4 months old fetus = 5 months before you are born. Now the Quran tells that man also has free will - a necessary claim not to make Allah very unjust when he sends a person to Hell for sins (or for that case rewards him for good deeds) - but those are two things which are impossible even for an omniscient and omnipotent god to combine. Give man even the slightest degree of free will, and the laws of chaos inexorably finish off predestination - the god can make things happen by adjusting this and that, but the moment man gets the possibility to change his mind once more about something, full predestination is gone - and the same is full precognition. Even Islam admits that full predestination is impossible to combine with free will of man (some claim that partly free will is possible, but that is wrong - the laws of chaos is very clear on that point; the so-called "butterfly effect" kicks in, and the same so-called "the domino effect"): We quote (A6/141 - comment to verse 6/149): “In other words, the real relationship between Allah’s knowledge of the future (and, therefore, the ineluctability of what is to happen in the future) on one side, and man’s free will, on the other – two propositions which, on the face of it, seem to contradict one another – is beyond man’s comprehension; but since both are postulated by Allah, both must be true". But here Islam is leaving religion, and entering pure mysticism. In the non-material realms of life there are things impossible even for an omniscient and omnipotent god. Proofs for this in 6/149a below.

If there is complete predestination in Islam like the Quran states as absolute several places in the Quran, forgiving can have no effect in this religion - everything is already decided and nothing can be changed in Allah’s long since predestined Plan - and to forgive means to change the predestination/Plan. (You of course may claim that also the forgiving was predestined, but then it is not forgiving any more, but theater.) To claim the opposite just is mysticism, not religion.

####002 3/145c: "- - - the term being fixed as by writing”. Everything is predestined by Allah and in accordance with his unchangeable Plan - also your death. By the way: As Allah's Plan is impossible to change, there is no use praying to him or do good or bad deeds, as what is predestined cannot be changed. This is one of the Quran's basic contradictions in the Quran and in Islam: Allah predestines everything long time beforehand - according to Hadiths f.x. your destination in the claimed next life (Hell or Heaven) is predestined 5 months before you are even born - and according to an unchangeable Plan. But all the same you should pray to Allah for a better life and for acceptance to paradise, etc. etc. Where is the logic? If everything is predestined, prayers can have absolutely no effect. And if prayers have effect and can change things, predestination and a divine Plan are not true. Predestination combined wit effect of prayers is as impossible as predestination combined with free will of man - even for a god. It is anybody's guess why Muslims do not see this.

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are taught that a question or problem which really can have only one valid solutions, can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. F.x. in cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. Islam teaches differently. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1): Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. Islam is teaching differently. 2): The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other. Islam is teaching differently.)

Another fact: Today it is easy by means of statistical methods to check if prayers have any effect. (Let f.x. 1ooo persons each pray for one among 1ooo unknown persons sick or in other ways in need. compare the result after some time with a similar group of 1ooo who has not been prayed for, and see if there is a difference. If there is a positive difference, this would be a strong indication or perhaps even a proof for something - a proof Islam strongly and dearly needs, as they have not any proof for even a single of its central claims. But it has not even tried to make such a test. Why?)

003 3/147b: "Our (Muslims'*) Lord (Allah*)! Forgive us our sins - - -". Even if Allah should happen to be a god, he cannot forgive if that is contra to his claimed predestined Plan - the prayer then is a waste of time and effort. And if he has predestined forgiving and put it into his Plan long ago, prayer is not necessary as forgiving already is decided. If predestination is true like the Quran claims many times, prayer never has an effect in Islam - a fact strongly contradicting the Quran's never documented claims.

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####004 3/154e: “Even if you had remained in your homes, those for whom death was decreed would certainly have gone forth to the place of their death (anyhow*).” This is the "manifest" of predestination. And: This also is one of the points in the Quran where Muhammad knew he was lying. It is so obviously wrong, that an intelligent man like him knew this was not true. But he was a clever manipulator (“is it not more worth that I live among you, and spend the booty on the people not sure in their belief to make them stay in Islam?” f.x.) and he understood people. Lies like this worked because his followers were primitive and in addition wanted to believe. And for primitive, uneducated souls really believing mish-mash like this (it is easy to prove by statistics that it is untrue, if one are un-intelligent enough not to see at once that it is a lie) it was a mighty incitement – fighting in battles was not dangerous, because Allah had decided when you were to die, and at that time you would die whether you were in a battle or sleeping in your bed. It is worth noticing that even today this is the official point of view of Islam. To quote footnote 3/119 to this surah in “The Message of the Quran” (translated from the Swedish 2006 edition - not found in the English 2008 edition):

“(The) incorrect, heathen belief that humans by acting in special ways can avoid death (even for a time*)”.

Unbelievable!!

Today it as said is easy to prove by statistics that it is very wrong - but Muhammad did not know about statistics (and a god had not even needed statistics to know it was stupidity). On the other hand this claim is so contra all logic, that this as said is one of the points where Muhammad knew he was lying - he was too intelligent to believe in this. Actually Islam today back-pedals very much concerning predestination telling f.x. that the Quran does not mean real predestination (but not explaining what they claim it means). But in some cases the book is so clear, that it is impossible to explain it away.) f.x. many places connected to statements that when your time is out, you will die anyhow, and therefore you can as well go to war.

Also see 3/154g just below.

####Besides: Is it ironic to see a religion built on a book so full of errors, contradictions, wrong facts, etc., that it is clear there is no god behind it, naming others heathens?

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#005 3/154f “Even if you had remained in your homes, those for whom death was decreed would certainly have gone forth to the place of their death (anyhow*).” According to this, they could as well go to war, as they would die anyhow - but another place and may be at a slightly different time. The laws of chaos means that this changes the future - may be much and may be for many. This effect is not possible to avoid, and is sometimes strengthened by the so-called butterfly effect = a small cause can have a big effect. Allah's claimed unchangeable Plan is changed every time this happens. Something is seriously wrong also here in the Quran.

006 4/64g: "- - - asked Allah's forgiveness - - -". To what avail is such a request if it is true that Allah predestines everything according to his unchangeable Plan? As everything is predestined according to an unchangeable Plan, prayers can have no effect - the Plan is unchangeable.

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are taught that a question or problem which really can have only one valid solutions, can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. F.x. in cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. Islam teaches differently. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1): Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. Islam is teaching differently. 2): The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other. Islam is teaching differently.)

Another fact: Today it is easy by means of statistical methods to check if prayers have any effect. (Let f.x. 1ooo persons each pray for one among 1ooo unknown persons sick or in other ways in need. compare the result after some time with a similar group of 1ooo who has not been prayed for, and see if there is a difference. If there is a positive difference, this would be a strong indication or perhaps even a proof for something - a proof Islam strongly and dearly needs, as they have not any proof for even a single of its central claims. But it has not even tried to make such a test. Why?)

Or is this one more of the many contradictions in the Quran? - a most serious one even?

Also see 4/43h above.

As for forgiving from Allah: See 2/187d above.

###007 4/78a: “Wherever you are, death will find you, even if ye are in towers built strong and high!” The predestination once more - Allah has decided when you are to die (Hadiths tell he decides on this - and on whether you are to end in Hell or Paradise - 5 months before you are born). You can as well go to war and do "good" things for Allah – and get rewards and spoils of war from him – because you will die no sooner and no later all the same. No comments should be necessary. Beware that this is the belief also today, even though it is ever so easy to prove by statistics - and also by simply using your brain - that this is wrong. If this is true, free will for man can walk away whistling a tune.

But this claim is so obviously wrong, that a man as intelligent as Muhammad knew he was lying each time he said things like this.

008 6/92h: "- - - they (Muslims*) are constant in guarding their Prayers". Why? - if it is true what the Quran claims many places, that Allah has predestined everything for you in accordance with his unchangeable Plan, which nothing and no-one can change, no prayer can change his predestinations - prayers to Allah thus are meaningless and a waste of time. (Muslims never - never - mention this).

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are taught that a question or problem which really can have only one valid solutions, can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. F.x. in cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. Islam teaches differently. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1): Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. Islam is teaching differently. 2): The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other. Islam is teaching differently.)

Another fact: Today it is easy by means of statistical methods to check if prayers have any effect. (Let f.x. 1ooo persons each pray for one among 1ooo unknown persons sick or in other ways in need. compare the result after some time with a similar group of 1ooo who has not been prayed for, and see if there is a difference. If there is a positive difference, this would be a strong indication or perhaps even a proof for something - a proof Islam strongly and dearly needs, as they have not any proof for even a single of its central claims. But it has not even tried to make such a test. Why?)

009 6/111b: “- - - they (non-Muslims*) are not the ones to believe, unless it is Allah’s Plan”. This is even worse than 6/107a above - Allah simply has made it impossible for non-Muslims to become Muslims, if it does not fit him. But still he condemns them to Hell!!! Predestination at its worst - perhaps except when luring people to their death or mutilation in battle.

No comment could possibly explain our point of view or distaste.

010 6/115e: “- - - none can change His (Allah's*) Words “. Predestination and his Plan. Allah decides everything, and no-body can change anything. (Then why f.x. pray for help or a better future, when everything already is decided and the decisions impossible to change, because nothing can change his Plan?)

011 6/125b: "- - - (in His (Allah's*) Plan - - -". The predestination again. Allah has everything planned, and nothing and nobody can change anything (actually why pray to Allah for help in problems, when nothing can be changed?). And what about f.x. free will for man?

##012 7/29c: "- - - prayer - - -". What is the idea of praying for anything in Islam? According to the Quran - and Hadiths - Allah has predestined every detail in your and everyone else's life according to his unchangeable Plan - a Plan "nobody and nothing" can change. Thus prayers can have no effect and can change nothing, and just is a waste of time and effort - a fact (if the stated predestination is correct - and if it is not, the Quran is wrong) no Muslim ever mentions or tries to explain.

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are taught that a question or problem which really can have only one valid solutions, can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. F.x. in cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. Islam teaches differently. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1): Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. Islam is teaching differently. 2): The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other. Islam is teaching differently.)

Another fact: Today it is easy by means of statistical methods to check if prayers have any effect. (Let f.x. 1ooo persons each pray for one among 1ooo unknown persons sick or in other ways in need. compare the result after some time with a similar group of 1ooo who has not been prayed for, and see if there is a difference. If there is a positive difference, this would be a strong indication or perhaps even a proof for something - a proof Islam strongly and dearly needs, as they have not any proof for even a single of its central claims. But it has not even tried to make such a test. Why?)

Similar goes for forgiving in Islam - it will change Allah's Plan "which nobody and nothing can change" according to the Quran.

#013 7/34a: “To every people (nation, community*) is a term appointed - - -.” The fate of every nation/people is predestined - like everything else. And nothing can change Allah's Plan. (PS: As nothing can change his plan, why then pray for help then you are in difficulties? - nothing can be changed. Also: Man can have absolutely no free will - even a little free will is mutual excluding to full predestination-.

014 7/56d: "- - - call on (pray to*) Him (Allah*) - - - for the Mercy of Allah is (always) near to those who do good.

How can the claimed mercy of Allah come to light or have any effect, when everything already is predestined according to Allah's plan - a plan nobody and nothing can change according to the Quran? Allah cannot be merciful and give you something better than planned, unless his Plan is changed - and nobody and nothing can change his plan, according to the Quran. Of course you can say that also your prayer and his reaction were predestined, but the "mercy" is not mercy any more, but threat.

015 7/99b: "- - - the Plan of Allah - - -". The basis for the Quran's claimed predestination; Allah's unchangeable Plan, which nothing and nobody can change. It today is easy to prove (f.x. by means of statistics) that at least some claimed unavoidable effects of full predestination, and thus of Allah's claimed unchangeable Plan, are wrong. It f.x. is easy to prove statistically - if you need such a proof - that it is more likely you die if you take part in a battle, compared to if you refuse to go to war, and instead are tilling your field at the time when the battle takes place. Or if you today (28. Dec. 2014) go to Syria to fight, instead of minding your job in New York.

016 7/188a: "- - - except as Allah willeth". The predestination - nothing can happen except as Allah will. (But where then is the claimed free will of man?)

017 8/3a: "- - - establish regular prayers - - -". But what is the idea with prayers in Islam if Allah predestines everything long before and according to his unchangeable Plan? - a plan "nobody and nothing can change". If nothing can change the predestination, prayers have no effect in Islam and are just a waste of time and effort. As bad: Similar goes for f.x. forgiving, not to mention free will for man.

018 8/28a: "- - - a trial - - -". But why does an omniscient god who knows absolutely everything, included your innermost thoughts, and who on top of all according to many places in the Quran predestines everything and every detail on Earth and in everyone's life, need trials of his people?!? There exists no logic in it - not unless it in reality was Muhammad who needed an explanation for why Allah wanted his followers to fight for Muhammad.

  1. Predestination - Muhammad even came to stress predestination more and more as the years went by in Medina - one can speculate if the reason was that he needed warriors.
  2. And this is a serious point: THROUGH 1400 YEARS ISLAM HAS BEEN UNABLE TO EXPLAIN THE CONTRADICTION BETWEEN THE STATEMENTS THAT MAN HAS FREE WILL, AND THE STATEMENTS THAT ALLAH DECIDES EVERYTHING. THE MORE OR LESS OFFICIAL POINT OF VIEW (THOUGH NOT AMONG THE UNEDUCATED ONES THAT HARDLY UNDERSTANDS THE PROBLEM) IS THAT THE TWO STATEMENTS ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO COMBINE, “BUT IT ALL THE SAME HAS TO BE TRUE AS ALLAH SAYS SO IN THE QURAN”(!!!). ALSO THE SENDING PEOPLE TO HELL FOR A FAIR PUNISHMENT COMBINED WITH THE “FACT” THAT ALLAH DECIDES EVERYTHING BY PREDESTINATION, IS IMPOSSIBLE TO COMBINE WITH THE PRESUMPTION OF A BENEVOLENT AND/OR FAIR GOD. Some Muslims back paddle very much on the point of predestination and try to explain that it is not real predestination, without explaining what it then is - but the Quran is too clear on this.
  3. PREDESTINATION ALSO MAKES PRAYERS INVALID IN ISLAM. IF EVERYTHING IS PREDESTINED LONG TIME AGO, AND PREDESTINED IN ACCORDANCE WITH ALLAH'S PLAN - A PLAN NOBODY AND NOTHING CAN CHANGE ACCORDING TO SEVERAL VERSES IN THE QURAN, AND WHICH THUS ALSO PRAYERS CANNOT CHANGE, TO PRAY FOR HELP OR FORGIVING OR ANYTHING FROM ALLAH JUST IS A WASTE OF TIME AND EFFORT. THE SAME GO FOR GOOD DEEDS, PILGRIMAGE, ETC., AS NOTHING CAN CHANGE ALLAH'S PREDESTINED PLAN ACCORDING TO SEVERAL CLEAR STATEMENTS IN THE QURAN.

019 8/44c: "For to Allah do go all questions go back (for decision)." All and everything ends with Allah for decision - because it is Allah who decides absolutely everything, and he decides it by predestination and according to his unchangeable Plan, which nobody and nothing can change, according to the Quran. (But if nothing can be changed from his predestined plan, which help can then f.x. prayers to Allah or pilgrimage or good deeds make? - everything is unchangeably locked to his Plan already according to the Quran!? - and man can have no free will).

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are taught that a question or problem which really can have only one valid solutions, can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. F.x. in cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. Islam teaches differently. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1): Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. Islam is teaching differently. 2): The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other. Islam is teaching differently.)

Another fact: Today it is easy by means of statistical methods to check if prayers have any effect. (Let f.x. 1ooo persons each pray for one among 1ooo unknown persons sick or in other ways in need. compare the result after some time with a similar group of 1ooo who has not been prayed for, and see if there is a difference. If there is a positive difference, this would be a strong indication or perhaps even a proof for something - a proof Islam strongly and dearly needs, as they have not any proof for even a single of its central claims. But it has not even tried to make such a test. Why?)

Similar goes for forgiving in Islam - it will change Allah's Plan "which nobody and nothing can change" according to the Quran. And also out goes free will for man - only in occultism, mysticism, made up legends, and in fairy tale is it possible to combine full predestination for Allah, with even only a little free will for man. There exist immaterial laws which are unbreakable also for omnipotent gods. (A sample which is easy to understand, is that if you add the mathematical 1 to another mathematical 1, there only is one possible answer even for a god - the mathematical 2. Among the immaterial laws you will find a number of such samples, included some of the laws of logic and of chaos, some of which the statement "full predestination + free will for man = true" is trying to break. Impossible. And beware that "partly free will" - a Muslim way of trying to explain the problem away - is as meaningless as full free will, if there is complete predestination like the Quran claims many places. And the other way around: Full clairvoyance or precognition - ability to see or know the future - is impossible for a god if man has even partly free will; after Allah thinks 'now I know the future', a man always can change his mind once more. But partly precognition is possible (this is what Yahweh has the Bible makes clear)).

020 9/85a "Allah's Plan - - -". Allah predestines everything, and he does it according to his Plan - a plan nobody and nothing can change. But how can he then punish man for sins Allah himself has planned and forced man to do? - Full predestination means no free will for man, no matter what the Quran claims - even Islam has given in explaining how both can be possible (A6/141) - and then: How can Allah punish for what man is forced to do? Also: Has prayer any meaning when Allah already has decided the outcome?

##021 9/99f: "- - - prayer - - -". What is the idea of prayers in Islam if the Quran tells the truth when it many places states that Allah predestines every detail which happens, and predestines it according to his Plan which nobody and nothing can change? If nothing can change it, also prayers can change not a thing. This means that if the Quran tells the truth about predestination, prayers just are waste of time and effort. And if it does not tell the truth here, how many other places in the Quran is untrue - and what then is Islam?

Also forgiving is impossible if Allah's Plan is impossible to change.

022 9/103a: "- - - pray (Muhammad*) on their (the good desert Arabs*) behalf - - -". To what avail if Allah predestines everything according to his Plan which nobody and nothing can change anyhow? - one of the Quran's and Islam's most central and unsolvable mysteries and contradiction - and one which unlike the impossibility of combining Allah's complete predestination with even a small piece of free will for man, is never mentioned by Muslims. (Total predestination after all is mentions sometimes by Islam, though their scholars (not the lay people who believe in the mumbo-jumbo they are told explains it) admit it is impossible to understand how it can be combined.)

023 9/104a: "Know they (people*) not that Allah doth accept repentance - - -". But what is the idea if Allah already has predestined everything according to his unchangeable Plan? If the Plan and the predestinations are unchangeable and made eons before like the Quran states, also repentance cannot have any effect. See 9/103a above.

081 10/15c: "- - - (non-Muslims) say: 'Bring us a Reading other than this (some surahs*), or change this'". How could this end in the "Mother Book" (of which the Quran is a copy according to Muhammad) billions of years before it was said? One more of the many texts or quotes in the Quran which could not have been reliably written into the claimed "Mother Book" (13/39b, 43/4b+c, 85/21-22) in Heaven (of which the Quran is claimed to be a copy) eons ago, unless predestination was and is 100% like the Quran claims many places (if you look, you will find more cases than we mention - we only mention some of the obvious ones). If man has free will - even partly only (an expression some Muslims use to flee from the problem full predestination contra free will for man (and also contra that there is no meaning in praying to Allah for help or wishing for forgiving, if everything already is predestined in accordance to a Plan "nobody and nothing can change" - a problem which Muslims seldom mention), and an expression no Muslim we have met has ever defined) - and can change his mind, full and reliable clairvoyance about the future, not to mention the distant future, is impossible even for a god, as the man always could/can change his mind or his words once more, in spite of Islam's claims. There are at least 5 reasons - at least 3 of them unavoidable - for this.

185 10/38c: "Or they (the opponents*) say: 'He (Muhammad*) forged it?" How could this end up in the "Mother Book" (of which the Quran is a copy according to Muhammad) billions of years before it was said? One more of the many texts or quotes in the Quran which could not have been reliably written into the claimed "Mother Book" (13/39b, 43/4b+c, 85/21-22) in Heaven (of which the Quran is claimed to be a copy) eons ago, unless predestination was and is 100% like the Quran claims many places (if you look, you will find more cases than we mention - we only mention some of the obvious ones). If man has free will - even partly only (an expression some Muslims use to flee from the problem full predestination contra free will for man (and also contra that there is no meaning in praying to Allah for help or wishing for forgiving, if everything already is predestined in accordance to a Plan "nobody and nothing can change" - a problem which Muslims seldom mention), and an expression no Muslim we have met has ever defined) - and can change his mind, full and reliable clairvoyance about the future, not to mention the distant future, is impossible even for a god, as the man always could/can change his mind or his words once more, in spite of Islam's claims. There are at least 5 reasons - at least 3 of them unavoidable - for this.

230 10/48a: "They (skeptics at the time of Muhammad*) say: 'When will this come to pass - - -?" How could this end up in the "Mother Book" (of which the Quran is a copy according to Muhammad) billions of years before it was said? One more of the many texts or quotes in the Quran which could not have been reliably written into the claimed "Mother Book" (13/39b, 43/4b+c, 85/21-22) in Heaven (of which the Quran is claimed to be a copy) eons ago, unless predestination was and is 100% like the Quran claims many places (if you look, you will find more cases than we mention - we only mention some of the obvious ones). If man has free will - even partly only (an expression some Muslims use to flee from the problem full predestination contra free will for man (and also contra that there is no meaning in praying to Allah for help or wishing for forgiving, if everything already is predestined in accordance to a Plan "nobody and nothing can change" - a problem which Muslims seldom mention), and an expression no Muslim we have met has ever defined) - and can change his mind, full and reliable clairvoyance about the future, not to mention the distant future, is impossible even for a god, as the man always could/can change his mind or his words once more, in spite of Islam's claims. There are at least 5 reasons - at least 3 of them unavoidable - for this.

246 10/53d: "And ye (wrongdoers*) cannot frustrate it (your destiny*)". Allah has decided - predestination rules. Different from NT where there is possibility to the very end, if there is honest regret and remorse.

Predestination also is proved wrong by science. Several aspects of the claims of predestination is possible to test, f.x. by means of statistics, and f.x. the claim that the chance for dying a certain day is not greater in a battle than when working in your fields, playing with your children, or sleeping in your bed, is thoroughly proved wrong. (The claim also is logically hopeless.)

###290 10/64b: “- - - in the life of the Present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah”. What Allah decides is final - pure predestination. And many things he decides early – f.x. the day of your death and whether you will end in Hell or Heaven is (according to Hadiths) decided 5 months before you are born. And remember: According to the Quran Allah's predestined Plan is impossible to change by anyone or anything. Good or bad deeds, prayers, pilgrimage, or whatever (f.x. forgiving) - nothing can change Allah's predestined Plan, according to the Quran.

##291 10/64c: “- - - in the life of the Present and in the Hereafter, no change can there be in the Words of Allah.” For one thing this sentence has serious effect for the ones who say that predestination in the Quran, is not real predestination – when Allah has said/thought/written something, no free will of man can change anything - - - which means there is no free will, and things are predestined as sure as carved in stone. But more relevant just here is that there were many and sometimes large changes in Allah’s words after this “revelation” in 621 AD, and also just one year later Muhammad/Allah(?) started to change the religion totally and fundamentally (from peace to a war religion). Thus this claim is contradicted by the changes in the Quran and in the religion (from quite peaceful to a full-fledged war religion) from around 622 - 624 AD. Islam simply was very transformed - from peace to thieving/looting, extortion, suppression, rape, slave taking, and blood.

311 10/68a: "They (Christians*) say: 'Allah (Muhammad wrongly mixed Yahweh and Allah together*) has begotten a son!'" How could this end up in the "Mother Book" (of which the Quran is a copy according to Muhammad) billions of years before it was said? One more of the many texts or quotes in the Quran which could not have been reliably written into the claimed "Mother Book" (13/39b, 43/4b+c, 85/21-22) in Heaven (of which the Quran is claimed to be a copy) eons ago, unless predestination was and is 100% like the Quran claims many places (if you look, you will find more cases than we mention - we only mention some of the obvious ones). If man has free will - even partly only (an expression some Muslims use to flee from the problem full predestination contra free will for man (and also contra that there is no meaning in praying to Allah for help or wishing for forgiving, if everything already is predestined in accordance to a Plan "nobody and nothing can change" - a problem which Muslims seldom mention), and an expression no Muslim we have met has ever defined) - and can change his mind, full and reliable clairvoyance about the future, not to mention the distant future, is impossible even for a god, as the man always could/can change his mind or his words once more, in spite of Islam's claims. There are at least 5 reasons - at least 3 of them unavoidable - for this.

024 11/90b: "But ask (pray for*) forgiveness of your Lord (Allah*), and turn to Him (in repentance) - - -". What for if Allah already has predestined everything according to his unchangeable Plan, like the Quran strongly states several places? - nothing can all the same change what is to happen - prayers and repentance in case just are wasted time and effort if this is true. And what is Islam if it is not true?

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are taught that a question or problem which really can have only one valid solutions, can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. F.x. in cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. Islam teaches differently. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1): Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. Islam is teaching differently. 2): The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other. Islam is teaching differently.)

Another fact: Today it is easy by means of statistical methods to check if prayers have any effect. (Let f.x. 1ooo persons each pray for one among 1ooo unknown persons sick or in other ways in need. compare the result after some time with a similar group of 1ooo who has not been prayed for, and see if there is a difference. If there is a positive difference, this would be a strong indication or perhaps even a proof for something - a proof Islam strongly and dearly needs, as they have not any proof for even a single of its central claims. But it has not even tried to make such a test. Why?)

Similar goes for forgiving in Islam - it will change Allah's Plan "which nobody and nothing can change" according to the Quran. And also if Allah predestines 100%, out goes free will of man.

025 13/2k: "He (Allah*) doth regulate all affairs - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which says that Yahweh regulates a lot - though not like in the Quran where the claimed god regulates absolutely everything, so that f.x. free will of man, forgiving, and the value of prayers just are illusions, if true. And what is the situation if the claims about total predestination are not true? Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

026 13/11b: "Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls) - - -". But how can they change anything themselves, if it is true that Allah decides absolutely everything and according to an unchangeable Plan, like the Quran states many places? (For Muhammad it was essential to make Allah seem fair by claiming that man had free will and thus himself was to blame for bad deeds. But the good Muhammad was never able to combine this with another claim he needed to have many and daring warriors; predestination. Even Islam admits it is not possible to combine the two (but claims very lamely, that all the same it must be true as it is said so in the Quran - it is beyond the incredible what believers are able to believe if they just want to believe it (if it is Iblis/the Devil who is behind the Quran, perhaps he knew what he did anyhow.)

027 13/14b: "- - - prayer - - -". But why pray, if it is true like the Quran claims that Allah predestines everything long time before, and that his predestinations are made according to a Plan which nobody and nothing can change? If predestination is true, prayers just are a waste of time and effort in Islam. (If Allah's Plan is unchangeable, ha also cannot forgive.)

028 13/22b: "- - - establish regular prayers - - -". What for? - if Allah has predestined everything years and decades and more ago, prayers cannot have any effect. (And the same to f.x. forgiving or fasting.)

029 13/31d: "- - - the command is with Allah in all things!" = Allah decides everything - we in reality are back to his claimed predestination and Plan. Often claimed, never proved. There actually are strong circumstantial proofs for that the quoted words are wrong.

030 14/22b: "- - - reproach your (sinners'*) own souls (for sinning*)". Why? Why, when the Quran so clearly and so often states that Allah decides everything and has 100% predestination? It was Allah who decided that you should sin - how can he then punish you for it when he forced you to do it? As for "free will for man" which the Quran and Muslims blame, that is not even theoretically possible when there is full predestination by Allah - even Islam has given in explaining how that can be possible. (But Islam cannot drop the claimed free will - for one thing there then will be more mistakes in the Quran, and the religion and the god false ones, and for another Allah then will be a morally very bad god, punishing man for sins he himself has forced them to do. Therefore they say: "Even if it is impossible, it all the same must be true, because Allah says so in the Quran" (A6/141) - likely the lamest of all "explanations" you meet from Islam. In the immaterial sphere of existence there are things impossible even for omnipotent gods.) Also see 3/154e, 6/149a, and 7/34a above and not least 16/35e below.

031 14/39e: "- - - the Hearer of Prayer (here indicated Allah*)!" One thing is that Allah can hear no prayers unless he exists. Another: Prayers what for - if what the Quran tells that Allah predestines everything years and decades and more on beforehand, and that nothing can change his predestination, prayers just is naive waste of time in Islam - they can change nothing.

032 14/40c: "And accept Thou (here indicated Allah*) my (Abraham's*) prayer". What for? If everything is predestined like the Quran states many places, prayer have no effect - nothing can be changed.

033 16/9d: "- - - He (Allah*) could have guided all of you (man*)." If this had been true, what would it tell about the good and benevolent god that he let and lets millions of humans and jinns end in Hell each year, just because he will not guide them? - Not to mention if all that is a result of his predestination!?

034 16/28b: "- - - wrongdoing to their (sinners') own souls". But how is it possible that humans can be sinners, if it is Allah and his total predestination who forces them to do it? The Quran many places states absolutely that Allah decides and predestines everything and according to a Plan nobody and nothing can change!

035 16/33c: "But Allah wronged them (the sinners*) not: nay, they wronged their own souls". This is wrong if Allah decides everything - predestination - like the Quran strongly states several places. It may be correct if man has free will - but then Allah is not omniscient. (Muhammad (Allah?) needed predestination to get fierce and willing warriors - you did not die until Allah had decided, and then you could as well go to war and win wealth and women and slaves and merit in Heaven, as sleep in your bed. And he needed free will for man for his little cultivated and proudly free tribe people and even more for making punishment morally possible for a claimed good and benevolent and fair god. And unbelievably he was able to use both, even though they are impossible to combine even for gods. It is unbelievable what you can make people believe when they wish and want to believe - or are brainwashed and not really thinking.

##############036 16/35e: YA here has an interesting comment (YA2057: "- - - the limited free will granted to man, which is the whole basis of Ethics". The Quran claims man has free will. As this obviously is wrong, as Allah predestines everything, some Muslims try to save the day by adjusting it to that the book and Allah in reality mean limited free will, something the Quran definitely nowhere says. The flat reality, though, is that if Allah decides and predestines everything, like the Quran states MANY places, there is nothing left for man to decide. Thus also "limited free will" is an impossibility. Worse: The fact that if Allah decides everything, means there is nothing left for man to decide, is such a simple mathematics, that it is not possible YA and all other learned Muslims do not know it. x - x = 0. There exists no other possible answer. All the same they use this argument - and many simpleminded or uneducated or wishful believers believe it. You meet a little too much of this kind of dishonesty in Islamic literature.

#############But the really interesting point just here, is that YA clearly states the obvious: If man has no free will, all ethical questions concerning him disappears. What you are forced to do, tells nothing about your ethics. But on the other hand it tells a lot about the ethics of the one who forces you to do it. Not to mention what it tells about the ethics of the one forcing you, if he punishes you for bad things he has forced you to do. Allah predestines everything according to his Plan, according to the Quran. All the same Allah punishes you for the bad deeds he forced you to do to follow his Plan. What kind of god is this?!!

Thus Islam has at least four problems concerning predestination where the contradictions are so strong, that they are unsolvable even for an omniscient and omnipotent god:

  1. If Allah predestines everything like the Quran states most clearly many places, there is no room for free will of man, not even for "partly free will". x - x = 0 simply, and no other answer is possible. (Also full clairvoyance from Allah would be impossible - with free will man always could change his mind once more.) It also is symptomatic that we no place in Muslim literature have met an explanation for how "partly free will" should be possible. Like so much in Islam, it just is a claim hanging on nothing.
  2. If Allah predestines everything, and you thus just do what he has decided you shall do, how is it then ethically and morally possible to punish you for bad deeds? - and for that case reward you for good deeds? What kind of god is this?!
  3. And the third problem - one Muslims and Islam NEVER mention: If Allah predestines everything, and does so according to his unchangeable Plan like the Quran states many places - and decides it even years and decades before it is to happen (your death and whether you are to end in Hell or Heaven f.x. are decided 5 months before you are born according to Hadiths) - there is no value in prayers, as prayers like everything else can have no effect on his decisions made according to his Plan which nobody and nothing can change.
  4. And a fourth problem: Also forgiving means to change Allah's Plan - which "nobody and nothing can do". "Ergo" to ask for forgiving is meaningless, as it is asking Allah change his predestined Plan for you. If Allah's full predestination is true, the Quran's talk about forgiving and effect of prayers are untrue.
  5. And we may mention a fifth problem: If nobody and nothing can change Allah's predestined Plan, also the pilgrimage to Mecca is without any effect, and thus invalid and meaningless. Thus only because of this fundamental point in the Quran - full predestination - two of the claimed pillars carrying Islam - prayer and pilgrimage to Mecca - are without effect and value, and thus meaningless.

These are the reasons why you meet Muslims claiming that Allah's predestinations are not real predestinations, without explaining what it then is - and in stark contradiction to many clear statements in the Quran. And why you meet Muslims claiming the impossible - and like so often in Islam without logical explanation for how it is possible - that man has free will or at least partly free will, in spite of the 100% predestination stated frequently in the Quran, "because the claim has to be true because Allah says so in the Quran".

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are taught that a question or problem which really can have only one valid solutions, can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. F.x. in cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. Islam teaches differently. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1): Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. Islam is teaching differently. 2): The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other. Islam is teaching differently.)

Another fact: Today it is easy by means of statistical methods to check if prayers have any effect. (Let f.x. 1ooo persons each pray for one among 1ooo unknown persons sick or in other ways in need. compare the result after some time with a similar group of 1ooo who has not been prayed for, and see if there is a difference. If there is a positive difference, this would be a strong indication or perhaps even a proof for something - a proof Islam strongly and dearly needs, as they have not any proof for even a single of its central claims. But it has not even tried to make such a test. Why?)

Similar goes for forgiving in Islam - it will change Allah's Plan "which nobody and nothing can change" according to the Quran.

To summarize some effects of Allah's total predestination:

  1. Free will for man is not possible.
  2. Forgiving is not possible - it will change Allah's Plan.
  3. Prayers cannot have any effect, as such an effect will change Allah's unchangeable Plan.
  4. If your bad deeds are predestined by Allah, like the Quran claims, punishment is immoral.
  5. If your good deeds are predestined by Allah, like the Quran claims, reward is theatre.

037 16/53c: "- - - when ye are touched by distress, unto Him (Allah*) ye cry with groans - - -". Why? If everything is predestined according to Allah's Plan which nothing and no-one can change, prayers mean nothing for what is going to happen - good or bad.

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are taught that a question or problem which really can have only one valid solutions, can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. F.x. in cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. Islam teaches differently. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1): Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. Islam is teaching differently. 2): The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other. Islam is teaching differently.)

Another fact: Today it is easy by means of statistical methods to check if prayers have any effect. (Let f.x. 1ooo persons each pray for one among 1ooo unknown persons sick or in other ways in need. compare the result after some time with a similar group of 1ooo who has not been prayed for, and see if there is a difference. If there is a positive difference, this would be a strong indication or perhaps even a proof for something - a proof Islam strongly and dearly needs, as they have not any proof for even a single of its central claims. But it has not even tried to make such a test. Why?)

038 16/61e: "- - - when their (people's*) (predestined*) Term expires, they would not be able to delay (the punishment) for a single hour - - -". Allah's predestinations are absolute - nothing can change it. (Then why f.x. pray to Allah when in difficulties? - Allah already has decided what is going to happen, and nothing can change his decisions.) Also remember this when Islam talks about free will for man - see 3/154 and 14/22b above.

#039 16/61f: "- - - when their (people's*) (predestined*) Term expires, they would not be able to delay (the punishment) for a single hour - - -". Not even by sincere prayers? Also there is no reason for using medicine, or stop the bleeding of a wound - Allah has long since predestined if you will survive or not.

040 16/63d: "- - - but Satan made, (to the wicked), their own acts seem alluring - - -". But how could this happen, when the Quran so clearly states that Allah decides - even predestines and according to his unchangeable Plan - everything? Remember that free will for man is one of the things not possible even for an omnipotent god if there is full predestination - not even limited free will. (This is one more claim which is wrong in the Quran). See 14/22b above.

But who's acts are made alluring, if it in reality is Iblis/Satan who is behind the Quran? And remember that lots of points in the Quran - especially in the surahs from Medina -and f.x. in the moral code may indicate that this was the real maker. (Compare to "do to others like you want others do to you", and judge for yourself.

041 16/101d: "(When Muhammad abrogates - makes invalid - older verses with new ones*) They (non-Muslims*) say - - -". How could this end up in the claimed "Mother Book" (of which the Quran is a copy according to Muhammad) billions of years before it was said or happened? One more of the many texts or quotes in the Quran which could not have been reliably written into the claimed "Mother Book" (13/39b, 43/4b+c, 85/21-22) in Heaven (of which the Quran is claimed to be a copy) eons ago, unless predestination was and is 100% like the Quran claims many places (if you look, you will find more cases than we mention - we only mention some of the obvious ones).

Besides: How come that an omniscient god did not make perfect rules at once, but had to abrogate and change them. Did he have to try and fail? Or was he undecided and f.x. found that some of his early rules and demands were too human and too little harsh and bloody? And there is the problem with free will for man (and perhaps for all animals - at least the primates?)If man has free will - even partly only (an expression some Muslims use to flee from the problem full predestination contra free will for man (and also contra that there is no meaning in praying to Allah for help or wishing for forgiving, if everything already is predestined in accordance to a Plan "nobody and nothing can change" - a problem which Muslims seldom mention), and an expression no Muslim we have met has ever defined) - and can change his mind, full and reliable clairvoyance about the future, not to mention the distant future, is impossible even for a god, as the man always could/can change his mind or his words once more, in spite of Islam's claims. There are at least 5 reasons - at least 3 of them unavoidable - for this:

  1. When something is changed, automatically the future is changed.
  2. The laws of chaos will be at work and change things, if even a tiny part is made different. And multiply even a tiny change with some billion people through the centuries, and many and also big things will be changed.
  3. The displacement of a happening - f.x. the death of a warrior in battle - of only one yard or one minute may or even will change the future forever (that yard or minute f.x. may mean that the warrior killed - or not killed - an opponent). The laws of chaos and the "Butterfly Effect" and the "Domino Effect" kick in.

  4. The so-called "Butterfly Effect"; "a butterfly flapping its wing in Brazil may cause a storm in China later on" or "a small bump may overturn a big load".
  5. The so-called "Domino Effect": Any change will cause this and this to change, which will cause this and this to change, which will cause this and this to change - - - and so on forever. Also each cause may cause one or more or many changes. And: The Butterfly Effect only may happen, whereas the Domino Effect is unavoidable and inexorable - a main reason why if you in a battle is killed 5 meters from or 5 minutes later than where and when Allah has predestined - not to mention if you die when tilling your fields 50 miles off - unavoidably the entire future of the world is changed. Perhaps not much changed, but like said; multiply it with many billion people through the centuries, and the world is totally changed. And full clairvoyance of course totally impossible - except in occultism, made up legends, and in fairy tales.

This that Allah predestines everything like the Quran claims and states many places, is an essential point, because besides totally removing the free will of man (in spite of the Quran's claims of such free will, or some Muslims' adjusted "partly free will for man" - to adjust the meanings where the texts in the Quran are wrong, is typical for Islam and its Muslims) - it also removes the moral behind Allah's punishing (and rewarding) persons for what they say and do - Allah cannot reward or punish people for things he himself has forced them to say or do, and still expect to be believed when he (Muhammad?) claims to be a good or benevolent or moral or just god. Also see 2/51b and 3/24a above.

And as mentioned above, full predestination also makes prayers to Allah meaningless, as everything already is predestined according to Allah's Plan - a Plan which no prayer ("nobody and nothing") can change.

Also see 3/154e, 6/149a, 7/34a, and 14/22b above.

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#####042 17/59a: "And we (Allah*) refrain from sending Signs (Quran-speak for "proofs for Allah"), only because the men of former generations treated them as false - - -".

This is Muhammad's standard "explanation" for why Allah would not and Muhammad himself was unable to give any real proofs for the existence of Allah or for Muhammad's connection to a god - Allah or someone else. And it is not a good one, as for one thing it obviously is not true:

  1. There were stories both in the Bible and in the Quran - f.x. the sorcerers of Pharaoh Ramses II and Moses - about people believing in the performed miracles/real proofs (if true stories).
  2. Muhammad knew about at least some of the stories about the miracles Jesus performed, and how huge flocks of believers he got from the miracles.
  3. It is not only contra, but incompatible to, human nature and psychology that not a good percentage of the ones who witnessed real miracles/proofs would not come to believe.

Muhammad was intelligent and he understood people and how to manipulate them. He knew this. But he obviously was unable to find a better excuse - there are not many excuses which would work. But remember that dishonesty is an accepted working tool in Islam - f.x. al-Taqiyya.

What is really strange, is that Muslims have not seen through this "explanation" centuries ago, and still are unable to do so.

This is a monument over the effect of brainwashing, of wishful thinking, of ability to refuse to see the obvious, of lack of ability/training in critical thinking, uncritical acceptance of authorities, and more. A monument over the weak point of the human brain - and over taqlid (blindly and unquestioning believing because your fathers said that this and this - f.x. the Quran - must be the truth, because so their fathers had told them).

There are many such cases in the Quran. The three most prominent and serious effects may be the impossible combination of full predestination like the Quran states many places, and free will of man, and the as impossible combination of full predestination, and claims about any effect of prayers or forgiving.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

043 19/47b; "- - - I (Abraham*) will pray to my lord (here indicated Allah*) for thy (his father's*) forgiveness - - -". Why? - if Allah predestines everything long before, and does so according to a Plan which nobody and nothing can change, like the Quran states many places, prayers have no meaning in Islam, as they cannot have any effect. (Similar goes for f.x. good and bad deeds, pilgrimage, punishment, etc. - Allah cannot react to it unless he changes his unchangeable Plan). A question Muslims never touch.

044 20/82c: "- - - I (Allah*) am (also) He that forgives - - -". But what effect can (prayers for) forgiving have in Islam? If everything is predestine according to Allah's unchangeable Plan, forgiving can change nothing - what is decided years and decades ago, will happen no matter.

#####The point is that to forgive - or for that case to punish or reward or fulfill prayers - means for Allah to change his Plan considering the sinner/person, which according to the Quran is something nobody and nothing can make him do. See 2/187d above. If full predestination is true, like the Quran states MANY places, neither free will for man, nor forgiving can exist, and prayers have no meaning - everything is predestined and cannot be changed. Of course you may say that also f.x. the forgiving was predestined, but then it is not religion any more, but theater.

045 21/76b: “We (Allah*) listened to his (Noah’s*) (prayer) and delivered him and his family from great distress (= Allah saved Noah’s family from the flood*)”. But:

11/43: “- - - and the son (of Noah*) was among those overwhelmed in the Flood.” Noah just had 3 sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth – 1. Mos. 7/13, and not contradicted by the Quran – and he lost one of them. In addition it is clear from another place in the Quran that also his wife ended in Hell. That is not “saved Noah’s family”. (In the Bible Noah lost no son and his wife was not condemned to Hell.)

2 solid contradictions compared to the Bible. Besides: As the Quran is not from a god with all its mistakes, etc., the only source for information about Noah is the Bible. From where then did Muhammad get his claimed information not in the Bible? Similar claim in 37/76.

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are taught that a question or problem which really can have only one valid solutions, can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. F.x. in cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. Islam teaches differently. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1): Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. Islam is teaching differently. 2): The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other. Islam is teaching differently.)

Another fact: Today it is easy by means of statistical methods to check if prayers have any effect. (Let f.x. 1ooo persons each pray for one among 1ooo unknown persons sick or in other ways in need. compare the result after some time with a similar group of 1ooo who has not been prayed for, and see if there is a difference. If there is a positive difference, this would be a strong indication or perhaps even a proof for something - a proof Islam strongly and dearly needs, as they have not any proof for even a single of its central claims. But it has not even tried to make such a test. Why?)

Similar goes for forgiving in Islam - it will change Allah's Plan "which nobody and nothing can change" according to the Quran.

But one really serious point: The Quran hers says that "“We (Allah*) listened to his (Noah’s*) (prayer) and delivered him and his family from great distress" = Allah delivered Noah from distress because Noah prayed for it. Noah was delivered from distress not because that was part of Allah's Plan, but because of Noah's prayer. As it was not part of Allah's Plan, this means that Noah's prayer changed Allah's Plan, something which according to many points in the Quran "nobody and nothing can do".

And remember here that even a small change in life or nature or anything, changes the entire future. Sometime it changes only minor details, other times much. This prayer from Noah in case changed the entire future of the humanity and the world. In this case there only were two things Allah could do: Save Noah and his family, or not save them. As the Quran states that Allah saved them because of Noah's prayers, this means that this was not a part of Allah's Plan. Thus the only alternative is that Allah's Plan was a future earth without humans, or with creating a new human race. This is a change so big, that it made any fixed and unchangeable Plan entirely invalid. At best Allah had to make a totally new one, at worst he has a not working old plan.

THE SAME WILL TO A LARGER OR SMALLER DEGREE BE THE CASE BECAUSE OF EACH AND EVERY DEVIATION FROM ANY FIXED AND PREDESTINED PLAN. MICROSCOPIC OR BIG, ANY CHANGE WILL CHANGE THE ENTIRE FUTURE AND MAKE ANY FIXED, UNCHANGEABLE PLAN INVALID. THIS EVEN MORE SO AS EVEN SMALL CHANGES ACCUMULATE THE EFFECTS AND MAY GIVE MACRO EFFECTS. THE UNAVOIDABLE DOMINO EFFECT + THE POSSIBLE BUTTERFLY EFFECT + THE EFFECT BECAUSE DIFFERENT EFFECTS MAY COMBINE.

SO MUCH FOR THE LOGIC AND THE REALISM BEHIND THE CLAIMS THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO COMBINE F.X. FORGIVING, EFFECT OF PRAYER, OR FREE WILL FOR MAN WITH FULL PREDESTINATION BY ALLAH. (ONLY POSSIBLE IN OCCULTISM, mysticism, MADE UP LEGENDS, AND FAIRY TALES.)

046 22/32c: "- - - such honor (to sacrifice animals*) should come truly (definitely not a proved truth - only a not proved claim*) from the piety of heart". The sacrifices are to prove this piety of heart - but how come that an omniscient god needs the slaughtering of animals to believe you?

Another fact is that even if man had only a tenth of 1% free will, so that he himself could decide about doing this, after not much time the laws of chaos had destroyed both Allah's precognition and his predestinations - just ask f.x. any statistician or scientist. Free will for man (and f.x. any effect of prayer or forgiving) combined with full predestination by Allah, only is possible in occultism, mysticism, made up legends, fairy tales, etc. - this no matter what the Quran or Islam claims.

##047 23/9b: "- - - those who strictly guard their prayers - - -". The Quran has a central dogma which is confirmed many places in the Quran and in Hadiths: Allah predestines everything in this world - everything. This he does long time before it happens - years and decades and even more; 5 months before you are even born he according to Hadiths f.x. decides when you are going to die and whether you are going to end in Heaven or Hell. And his predestinations he makes according to his unchangeable Plan - a Plan nobody and nothing can change. This dogma was fine for Muhammad when he wanted to recruit warriors, which he needed lots and lots of after Islam was changed from a peaceful religion to a religion of war in 622 - 624 AD (Allah changed his mind about the value of peace and humanity contra war and power and terror and apartheid and stolen riches and slaves?)

But this is incompatible with at least 2 other central dogmas in the religion: Free will for man and prayers - and for that case with the dogma of forgiving:

The debated one is the dogma of free will for man. If Allah predestines everything, free will for man is an illusion, and humans are just puppets-on-a-string playing Allah's threat. But if that is the case, how can Allah punish sinners who have been forced by him to do what they did? - or for that case reward "good" persons who also just were playing their forced role? Muhammad needed the dogma of free will for man to be able to claim Allah was a just and good god who rewarded and punished justly. He needed that dogma and he launched it and he used it - - - but he never was able to explain how it could possibly be combined with the dogma about full predestination. And Islam has never been able to explain it - even today it is unexplained and unexplainable for Muslims. We quote A6/141 (English 2008 edition 6/143,comment to verse 6/149): “In other words, the real relationship between Allah’s knowledge of the future (and, therefore, the ineluctably of what is to happen in the future) on one side, and man’s free will, on the other – two propositions which, on the face of it, seem to contradict one another – is beyond man’s comprehension; but since both are postulated by Allah, both must be true.

Simply the ultimate pinnacle of clear speech. And the ultimate victory not for blind faith, but for blind faith based on naivety and intellectual unconsciousness. IT ALSO IS THE ULTIMATE DEFEAT FOR THE CLAIM THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO COMBINE THE CLAIM THAT MAN HAS FREE WILL WITH THE CLAIM THAT ALLAH DECIDES EVERY DETAIL OF YOUR LIFE. (Some Muslims try to "explain it with that the Quran just means partly free will, but that is just a joke. For one thing the Quran is very clear when it several places tells that Allah predestines everything, and then there is no room left for any even partly free will for man. And for another: Even partly free will for man will make reliable precognition and reliable predestination impossible for Allah - the laws of chaos sees to that. Full predestination for Allah is impossible even for gods to combine with even partly free will for man. In the immaterial realms of life there are things impossible even for omnipotent gods.

Then there is the other conundrum: Full predestination and prayers. What is the mission of prayers - and for that case pilgrimage (hajj) and good deeds - if everything is predestined long before? If everything is predestined years and decades before, and according to a Plan nobody and nothing can change, also prayers can change nothing and have no value or meaning, and just are wasted time and effort.

Worse: If it is Allah who has predestined that you have to make a prayer and pray for so and so, what meaning and value does it then have for Allah, when he knows that your prayer just is a repetition of what he decided you should pray for and what to say in your prayer? Such a "prayer" - or "good deed" or "hajj" - tells nothing about you, and has little value for any sentient being, included for a god.

Also read about "regular prayers" - f.x. 22/78j.

048 24/38a: "- - - Allah may reward them (good Muslims*) according to the best of their deeds - - -". Why, if it in reality is Allah and his predestination which has made them do it? Allah predestines absolutely everything according to his Plan - a plan no-one can change, according to the Quran.

049 25/74b: “And those who pray - - ". But what is the idea of praying, when Allah predestines everything according to his Plan - a Plan nobody or nothing can change? If this statement is true, all prayers are wasted time, as Allah already has decided what is going to happen.

050 26/218a: “- - - Who seeth thee (Muslims*) standing forth (in prayer).” What is the idea and effect of prayers in Islam, if everything is predestined by Allah in accordance with an unchangeable Plan years and decades and more before, like the Quran stated several places?

051 27/62a: "- - - who listens to the (soul) distressed when it calls on Him (Allah*), and who relives its suffering - - -?" How do this fit the strong claims in the Quran about Allah predestining everything according to a Plan which no-one and nothing can change the very least? Either Allah has decided a better future for you or he has not - nothing can change his Plan - - - which means that either the Plan is untrue or your prayers are wasted time. But predestination was necessary for Muhammad to get as many and as fearless warriors as possible - predestination meant that battles were not more dangerous than staying home, and in battles you could gain loot. (##########Both these claims are logical nonsense: It for one is not difficult to prove - if a formal proof at is necessary - that if you stay away from battles, your chance for a longer life is much better. For another: If Allah has predestined that you shall become rich, you according to the logic of predestination become rich whether you stay in your bed or steal from other people.)

#####052 29/22a: “Not on earth nor in heaven will ye be able (fleeing) to frustrate (His Plan) - - -“. Predestination. No-one can change what Allah has destined in his Plan. What then about the effect of prayers? - and what about free will for man? - not to mention: What then about man's moral responsibility for his words and deeds? - and not to forget: What about forgiving (which means Allah will have to change his original Plan on that point)? At least something is wrong.

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are taught that a question or problem which really can have only one valid solutions, can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. F.x. in cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. Islam teaches differently. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1): Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. Islam is teaching differently. 2): The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other. Islam is teaching differently.)

Another fact: Today it is easy by means of statistical methods to check if prayers have any effect. (Let f.x. 1ooo persons each pray for one among 1ooo unknown persons sick or in other ways in need. compare the result after some time with a similar group of 1ooo who has not been prayed for, and see if there is a difference. If there is a positive difference, this would be a strong indication or perhaps even a proof for something - a proof Islam strongly and dearly needs, as they have not any proof for even a single of its central claims. But it has not even tried to make such a test. Why?)

Similar goes for forgiving and for free will for man in Islam - it will change Allah's Plan "which nobody and nothing can change" according to the Quran.

053 29/40c: "It was not Allah Who injured (or oppressed) them (non-Muslims*): they inquired (and oppressed) their own souls". Wrong if they were forced to do what they did by Allah's predestination - a predestination the Quran several places says is total and according to Allah's unchangeable Plan. (Here either this claim or the claim that Allah predestines everything - or both - is wrong.

054 29/40c: "It was not Allah Who injured (or oppressed) them (non-Muslims*): they inquired (and oppressed) their own souls". Wrong if they were forced to do what they did by Allah's predestination - a predestination the Quran several places says is total and according to Allah's unchangeable Plan. (Here either this claim or the claim that Allah predestines everything - or both - is wrong.

055 29/53e: “- - - had it not been for a term (of respite) appointed, the Punishment would certainly have come to them - - -.” Are you able to recognize fast-talk?.

056 29/53f: “- - - had it not been for a term (of respite) appointed (by Allah*), the Punishment would certainly have come to them (non-Muslims*) - - -”. Very well - then Muhammad had an explanation why “bad” people lived a good life, and he had to prove nothing - it just was Allah’s unfathomable will which did it, or like in this case; his predestined Plan. Proof?

057 31/22f: "- - - with Allah rests the End and Decision of (all) affairs". There is no doubt when claiming that man has free will, the Quran is wrong: Allah decides all things - the predestination. (Actually this is said many places and in many ways throughout the Quran). If Allah decides all things, man has no free will. But how fair, how good, and how benevolent is Allah then when he punishes man for sins Allah has decided he shall make? And what is the effect of prayers if everything is predestined - included your prayer?

Either this or predestination is wrong. There is no way to combine the two statements - not even for an omnipotent god. (In the non-material realms of existence, there are things impossible also for gods.)

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are taught that a question or problem which really can have only one valid solutions, can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. F.x. in cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. Islam teaches differently. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1): Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. Islam is teaching differently. 2): The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other. Islam is teaching differently.)

Another fact: Today it is easy by means of statistical methods to check if prayers have any effect. (Let f.x. 1ooo persons each pray for one among 1ooo unknown persons sick or in other ways in need. compare the result after some time with a similar group of 1ooo who has not been prayed for, and see if there is a difference. If there is a positive difference, this would be a strong indication or perhaps even a proof for something - a proof Islam strongly and dearly needs, as they have not any proof for even a single of its central claims. But it has not even tried to make such a test. Why?)

Similar goes for forgiving in Islam - it will change Allah's Plan "which nobody and nothing can change" according to the Quran.

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###058 33/16c: “Running away will not profit you (Muslim warriors*), if ye are running away from death or slaughter, and even if (ye do escape), no more than a brief (respite) will ye be allowed to enjoy”. Well, this proves two things: It is not possible to escape predestination - no matter what Islam tries to tell you today that "it is not real predestination" (with full predestination man has no free will, and it is immoral by Allah to punish for sins or reward for good deeds) - and that in spite of the Quran, you at least can change your destination with “a brief respite“. A respite that at least has to be for some hours or days - if not there had been newly-dead frightened warriors laying around the nearest tens and more kilometers from some battlefields (because of their predestined hour or minute of death) - dead for no obvious reasons after fleeing from battle.

This in addition to that modern statistical science long since has proved this verse nonsense. This even more so as even if they had got "no more than a brief (respite)", the laws of chaos then had changed the future - and Allah's precognition was gone.

But Muhammad got many and terrific, but naïve warriors - - - and was so intelligent that he had to know he was lying.

And this goes for each and every time he said things like this.

Another fact is that even if a man died at the same time whether he tilled his garden of fought in a battle, the very fact that he died another place, would change the future. And if he died a little later if he fled from a battle, the time factor would add to that change. Both are scientific facts the Quran "overlooks".

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059 33/16e: “Running away will not profit you (humans/Muslims*), if ye are running away from death and slaughter; and even if (ye do escape), no more than a brief (respite) will ye be allowed to enjoy.” This is one more 100% proof for that something is wrong: Even if it had been true that they would be given only a brief respite, the laws of chaos had changed the future because of that respite, and thus changed Allah's claimed unchangeable Plan - and made his precognition invalid.

060 35/11g: "(The length of your life*) is in a Decree (ordained)". Predestination is very clear in the Quran, even if many Muslims try to tell it "is not really predestination", because full predestination like the Quran very clearly states many places, means man is not the one guilty for the sins he commits, and Allah is highly unjust punishing anybody for sins - or rewards good deeds. Full predestination also means that man has no free will - there are combinations even gods cannot make.

061 37/61: "For the like of this (Paradise*) let all strive, who wish to strive". In more clear language: Let everyone who wishes try to reach Paradise. But we must here remind you of Allah's predestination and unchangeable Plan. According to Hadiths he already 5 months before you were born, decided whether you were to end in Hell or Paradise, and nothing you can do can change his decision. A contradiction between the wish and claimed Islamic reality.

062 41/51: "- - - prolonged prayer - - -". What is the idea of prayers in Islam? If everything is predestined long time before, and according to a divine Plan nobody and nothing can change like the Quran states many times, prayers cannot have any effect.

063 42/30b: “Whatever misfortune happens to you, is because of things your hands have wrought - - -”. Please compare this to some of the other verses quoted in this chapter and other places (f.x. 42/31 below) and tell us: Is there honesty in this kind of Muslim argumentation? Because the Quran clearly tells many places that Allah decides everything, and nothing can change his predestinations. You f.x. cannot change your destiny by staying away from battle.

Or is the main thing to cling to what they want to believe? - and rather not find out if they are wrong until in the possible next world, when it may be too late not to end up in some real religion’s Hell?

(At least 10 contradictions in the Quran.)

064 42/31b: "Nor can ye (humans*) frustrate (aught) - - -". See this sentence together with "- - - it is because of the things your hands wrought - - -" in 42/30 above.

In clear words: "The bad things you do, is your own fault - but you cannot change anything Allah has predestined". And Allah as you know from the Quran has predestined every detail you say and do throughout your life.

Do you see the irony? Do you see the contradiction? Do you see the hopeless logic? And do you see the insult, slander, and heresy in blaming such a piece of literature on a god?

#####065 42/50e: (A42/52 - English 2008 edition A42/51): "The purport of this passage is a re-affirmation of the fact that whatever happens to man is an outcome of Allah's unfathomable will - - -". The total predestination confirmed. Where then is man's claimed free will? - with total predestination it does not exist.

And: How can punishment and reward be explained morally when Allah predestines EVERYTHING?

066 52/16: "- - - ye (non-Muslims*) but receive the recompense for your own deeds". This is not true if Allah predestines absolutely everything like the Quran claims many places. (Islam tries to explain this problem away by claiming man has free will or partly free will, but this is not possible to combine with full predestination even for an omniscient and omnipotent god - see f.x. comment A6/141 to verse 6/149 above.

You may just forget the Islamic claim that full predestination for Allah is possible to combine with even a little part of free will for man - Islam's claimed answer just is mysticism and hardly even that. The two claims are mutually excluding each other, and it is long since proved that when two claims mutually exclude each other, maximum one of them can be true. Another good proof is that the entire Islam during 1400 years has been unable to find even a way to "explain away" - not even "explain", but "explain away" - this very revealing point.

#####In a way worse: Also at least the educated intelligentsia in Islam knows ever so well that when two points are mutually excluding each other, maximum one of them can be true. All the same they say nothing. Dishonesty.

#####When a religion needs to use dishonesty - yes, perhaps partly is built on and rests on dishonesty - is it then a religion or a "religion"?

067 53/40: "- - - (the fruit of) his (man's*) striving will soon come in sight - - -". This is wrong if the Quran's statements about Allah’s predestination are true. If Allah predestines, it will be the fruits of his predestinations which come in sight. But at the same time it is a case of the carrot and the stick: Allah sees what you do, so be good, and willing and obedient.

###068 54/12c: "- - - the water rose to the extent decreed". = To the extent predestined. You will meet Muslims saying the Quran is not talking about real predestination (to be able to claim man has at least partly free will). There is no reason to believe them - the Quran is very clear on predestination, and that predestination is full and complete, and that Allah predestines absolutely everything. The book also is very clear on that Allah does his predestination according to his Plan which nobody and nothing can change - - - which f.x. means that there is no free will for man, and that prayers in Islam has no meaning as everything already is predestined long time before. Not even a god can combine these two things with predestination - even Islam has given in to explain how that could be possible (that is to say, they have given in explaining predestination contra free will for man - predestination contra prayers and their futility if predestination exists, they never debate).

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are taught that a question or problem which really can have only one valid solutions, can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. F.x. in cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. Islam teaches differently. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1): Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. Islam is teaching differently. 2): The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other. Islam is teaching differently.)

Another fact: Today it is easy by means of statistical methods to check if prayers have any effect. (Let f.x. 1ooo persons each pray for one among 1ooo unknown persons sick or in other ways in need. compare the result after some time with a similar group of 1ooo who has not been prayed for, and see if there is a difference. If there is a positive difference, this would be a strong indication or perhaps even a proof for something - a proof Islam strongly and dearly needs, as they have not any proof for even a single of its central claims. But it has not even tried to make such a test. Why?)

Similar goes for forgiving in Islam - it will change Allah's Plan "which nobody and nothing can change" according to the Quran.

069 57/22d: “No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We (Allah*) bring it into existence (= predestines*): that is truly easy for Allah:” See 4/78 above, Plus: How do Islam explain why Allah makes natural disasters - like the tsunami of 2004? And how do they explain why non-Muslims are condemned to Hell, when “no misfortune in your souls” f.x. not becoming Muslims, can happen except by the will of Allah? A benevolent god?

070 57/22e: "No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We (Allah*) bring it into existence: that (predestination*) is truly easy for Allah". Many Muslims try to explain away the predestination - that it "is not really predestination" or "it is not full predestination" or something like that. The reason is that if Allah predestines everything like the Quran clearly states, he is unjust when he rewards or punishes - or for that case rewards - people for what they do. Therefore Muslims need - and Muhammad needed - free will for man so that man can be blamed for things himself. But free will for man is impossible to combine with full predestination , and thus you meet these claims about "not real predestination", etc. and "partly free will", etc. But this verse (and many others) leaves no doubt about that everything is predestined by Allah, and that predestination is easy for Allah. (NB: Also partly - even a tiny part - free will for man makes predestination and also precognition from difficult to (mainly) impossible - the laws of chaos sees to that.

071 58/10c: "- - - but he (the Devil*) cannot harm them (people/Muslims*) in the least (= make them sin*), except as Allah permits - - -". But how then can Allah punish man for sins Allah has permitted - even via the Devil - (and according to other verses in the Quran even decided by predestination)??

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###072 62/9c: "- - - prayer - - -". What is the idea of and the effect of prayers in Islam? The Quran MANY places states that Allah predestines absolutely everything, and he predestines it according to his Plan, which nobody and nothing can change. And he predestines it long time before it is going to happen - he f.x. according to Hadiths predestines whether you are going to end in Hell or Heaven already when you are a 4 months old fetus = 5 months before you are born. Now the Quran tells that man also has free will - a necessary claim not to make Allah very unjust when he sends a person to Hell for sins (or for that case rewards him for good deeds) - but those are two things which are impossible even for an omniscient and omnipotent god to combine. Give man even the slightest degree of free will, and the laws of chaos inexorably finish off predestination - the god can make things happen by adjusting this and that, but the moment man gets the possibility to change his mind once more about something, full predestination is gone - and the same is full precognition. Even Islam admits that full predestination is impossible to combine with free will of man (some claim that partly free will is possible, but that is wrong - the laws of chaos is very clear on that point; the so-called "butterfly effect" kicks in): We quote ###(A6/141 - comment to verse 6/149): “In other words, the real relationship between Allah’s knowledge of the future (and, therefore, the ineluctably of what is to happen in the future) on one side, and man’s free will, on the other – two propositions which, on the face of it, seem to contradict one another – is beyond man’s comprehension; but since both are postulated by Allah, both must be true". But here Islam is leaving religion, and entering pure mysticism. In the non-material realms of life there are things impossible even for an omniscient and omnipotent god. Proofs for this in 6/149a above.

If there is complete predestination in Islam like the Quran states absolute several places in the Quran, prayers can have no effect in this religion - everything is already decided and nothing can be changed in Allah’s long since predestined Plan. To claim the opposite just is mysticism, not religion.

Combine this with 67/9c and you get a dark picture.

Also forgiving is impossible in Islam if nothing can change Allah's predestined Plan.

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073 74/38: "Every soul will be (held) in pledge for their deeds". Is this fair if Allah predestines everything you say and do like the Quran states? (The Quran claims that man also has free will, but this is not possible to combine with full predestination, even for an omnipotent god, as the two are mutually excluding each other - in the non-material realms of life, there are things impossible also for omniscient and omnipotent gods.)

074 74/43: "We (non-Muslims*) were not of those who prayed". But what is the idea with and effect of prayer in the Quran and in Islam, if Allah has predestined everything long before, and according to his Plan which nobody and nothing can change? - the two claims are mutually excluding each other.

##075 76/30a: “But ye (humans*) will not, except as Allah wills.” Total predestination. Contradicted by:

  1. 8/30 (614-618 AD): “Whenever misfortune happens to you (humans*), it is because of the things your hands have wrought - - -”. Also see 6/22 (630-632 AD): “No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We (Allah*) bring it into existence.”
    But also see all the places where Muhammad tells his people that battle is not dangerous - and refusing to do battle is to no avail - as Allah has long since decided the hour of their death, and nothing they do or not do, can change that hour. This point really goes to the heart of two facts in Islam:
  2. Muhammad came to stress predestination more and more as the years went by in Medina - one can speculate if the reason was that he needed warriors.
  3. And this is a serious point: THROUGH 1400 YEARS ISLAM HAS BEEN UNABLE TO EXPLAIN THE CONTRADICTING STATEMENTS THAT MAN HAS FREE WILL, AND THAT ALLAH DECIDES AND PREDESTINES EVERYTHING. THE MORE OR LESS OFFICIAL POINT OF VIEW (THOUGH NOT AMONG THE UNEDUCATED ONES THAT HARDLY UNDERSTANDS THE PROBLEM) IS THAT THE TWO STATEMENTS ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO COMBINE, “BUT IT HAS TO BE TRUE ALL THE SAME AS IT IS SAID IN THE QURAN”(!!!). ALSO THE SENDING PEOPLE TO HELL FOR A FAIR PUNISHMENT COMBINED WITH THE “FACT” THAT ALLAH DECIDES EVERYTHING BY PREDESTINATION, IS IMPOSSIBLE TO COMBINE WITH THE PRESUMPTION OF A BENEVOLENT AND/OR FAIR GOD. Some Muslims back paddle very much on the point of predestination and try to explain that it is not real predestination, though unable to explain what it then is - but the Quran is too clear on this.
  4. Islam also never has explained how prayers can have value or meaning if Allah has predestined everything and according to his unchangeable Plan long time ago.

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are taught that a question or problem which really can have only one valid solutions, can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. F.x. in cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. Islam teaches differently. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1): Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. Islam is teaching differently. 2): The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other. Islam is teaching differently.)

Another fact: Today it is easy by means of statistical methods to check if prayers have any effect. (Let f.x. 1ooo persons each pray for one among 1ooo unknown persons sick or in other ways in need. compare the result after some time with a similar group of 1ooo who has not been prayed for, and see if there is a difference. If there is a positive difference, this would be a strong indication or perhaps even a proof for something - a proof Islam strongly and dearly needs, as they have not any proof for even a single of its central claims. But it has not even tried to make such a test. Why?)

Similar goes for forgiving in Islam - it will change Allah's Plan "which nobody and nothing can change" according to the Quran.

ACTUALLY THIS ONE IS EXTRA INTERESTING, AS IT CONFIRMS THAT ALLAH DECIDES WHAT A HUMAN WILL. A N D W H E R E I S T H E N T H E C L A I M E D F R E E W I L L O F M A N ?

076 76/31e: "- - - for them (non-Muslims*) He (Allah*) has prepared a grievous Penalty". This only is right if Allah exists, and if they in addition have had free will, so that they sinned from choice, not from being forced to by Allah's predestination - but punish he can do even if he should happen to be from the dark forces, just cheating Muhammad by pretending to be a god.

077 78/26: "(Hell is*) A fitting recompense (for them) (sinners*)". Wrong. There is no reasonable correspondence between the sins of a normal sinner, and the horrible and sadistic punishment in Hell.

AND NOT LEAST: IS IT FITTING IF IT IS ALLAH WHO BY HIS PREDESTINATION HAS MADE YOU DO IT?

078 85/19c: "- - - the Unbelievers (persist) in rejecting (the stories Muhammad told*) - - -". How could this reliably be written in the claimed "Mother Book" (of which the Quran is a copy according to Muhammad) billions of years before it was said or happened? One more of the many texts or quotes in the Quran which could not have been reliably written into the claimed "Mother Book" (13/39b, 43/4b+c, 85/21-22) in Heaven (of which the Quran is claimed to be a copy) eons ago, unless predestination was and is 100% like the Quran claims many places (if you look, you will find more cases than we mention - we only mention some of the obvious ones) If man has free will - even partly only (an expression some Muslims use to flee from the problem full predestination contra free will for man (and also contra that there is no meaning in praying to Allah for help or wishing for forgiving, if everything already is predestined in accordance to a Plan "nobody and nothing can change" - a problem which Muslims seldom mention), and an expression no Muslim we have met has ever defined) - and can change his mind, full and reliable clairvoyance about the future, not to mention the distant future, is impossible even for a god, as the man always could/can change his mind or his words once more, in spite of Islam's claims. There are at least 5 reasons - at least 3 of them unavoidable - for this:

  1. When something is changed, automatically the future is changed.
  2. The laws of chaos will be at work and change things, if even a tiny part is made different. And multiply even a tiny change with some billion people through the centuries, and many and also big things will be changed.
  3. The displacement of a happening - f.x. the death of a warrior in battle - of only one yard or one minute may or even will change the future forever (that yard or minute f.x. may mean that the warrior killed - or not killed - an opponent). The laws of chaos and the "Butterfly Effect" and the "Domino Effect" kick in.

  4. The so-called "Butterfly Effect"; "a butterfly flapping its wing in Brazil may cause a storm in China later on" or "a small bump may overturn a big load".
  5. The so-called "Domino Effect": Any change will cause this and this to change, which will cause this and this to change, which will cause this and this to change - - - and so on forever. Also each cause may cause one or more or many changes. And: The Butterfly Effect only may happen, whereas the Domino Effect is unavoidable and inexorable - a main reason why if you in a battle is killed 5 meters from or 5 minutes later than where and when Allah has predestined - not to mention if you die when tilling your fields 50 miles off - unavoidably the entire future of the world is changed. Perhaps not much changed, but like said; multiply it with many billion people through the centuries, and the world is totally changed. And full clairvoyance of course totally impossible - except in occultism, made up legends, and in fairy tales.

This that Allah predestines everything like the Quran claims and states many places, is an essential point, because besides totally removing the free will of man (in spite of the Quran's claims of such free will, or some Muslims' adjusted "partly free will for man" - to adjust the meanings where the texts in the Quran are wrong, is typical for Islam and its Muslims) - it also removes the moral behind Allah's punishing (and rewarding) persons for what they say and do - Allah cannot reward or punish people for things he himself has forced them to say or do, and still expect to be believed when he (or Muhammad?) claims he is a good or benevolent or moral or just god. Also see 2/51b and 3/24a above.

And as mentioned above, full predestination also makes prayers to Allah meaningless, as everything already is predestined according to Allah's Plan - a Plan which no prayer ("nobody and nothing") can change.

Also see 3/154e, 6/149a, 7/34a, 14/22b, and not least 27/22-26 above.

Sub-total Chapter 81 = 78 + 8.144 = 8.222.


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This work was upload with assistance of M. A. Khan, editor of islam-watch.org and the author of "Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism, and Slavery".