Muhammad in the Quran, Vol. 2: Chapter 31
15 Dec. 2015
MUHAMMAD (AND ANGELS) SPEAKING IN THE QURAN
If angels speak in the Quran, the Quran cannot be older than the first angels.
If angels speak to humans in the Quran, the Quran cannot be older than the first humans.
If Muhammad speaks in the Quran - the Quran cannot be older than Muhammad.
How then can the Quran have been created before the world, or may be have existed since eternity?
For angels speaking, see at the end of this chapter.
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001 1/5b: "- - - Thine (Allah's*) aid do we (Muslims*) seek". Here is a very serious one: It is not Allah but Muhammad or Muhammad and his followers who speak. How is that possible in a book made by Allah before the world was created or existed since eternity? Something is seriously wrong. (Ibn Masud, one of Muhammad's companions and an expert on quranic texts - d. ca. 652 AD - claimed that this verse and surah (and also the surahs 113 and 114) did not belong in the Quran. But how much more text is then wrongly put into the book? There are in Islam rumors telling that verses were added and strong rumors for that verses (some 100?) were omitted when Uthman had his official Quran made in the early 650s AD.)
#002 2/286c: “(Pray:) ‘Our Lord! - - -‘“. The word "(Pray:)" does not exist in the original Arab text – Yusuf Ali has added it to “camouflage” the fact that this is Muhammad praying to Allah - in a book claimed to be billions of years old and made by a god before the Earth was created, or may be have existed since eternity. Honesty? How is it possible to explain that Muhammad is praying to Allah in a book made by Allah or may be never made, but existed since eternity? (There are some 8-9 places like this in the Quran concerning Muhammad and one or two concerning angels, included one place where angels are speaking to humans = the Quran cannot older than the first humans).
####003 6/104c: "Now have (the Quran*) come - - - from your (Muslim's) Lord (Allah*) - - - I (Muhammad*) am not here to watch over your (people's) doings". THIS IS A SERIOUS ONE: Here it is Muhammad who is speaking - - - in a book presumably made eons ago in Heaven!!! - an impossibility and a clear contradiction of the Islamic claim that it is a copy of the Mother Book in the Heaven. (There are some 8 such cases in the Quran (1/1-7, 2/286c, 6/104c, 6/114, 11/2b, 19/36b, 27/91a, 42/10a and 51/50-51a + likely 84/15-16) - - - and 16/63 use the word "today", referring to the time Muhammad released it). Plus at least three cases where angels are speaking - see 19/64, 37/164-166 and 41/30-32.) Clear proof(s) for that the Quran is not from Heaven - at least not all of it. This lines up with facts like:
- There are lots and lots and lots and lots of mistakes in the book.
- There are lots and lots of invalid “signs” and “proofs” in the book.
- There are lots and lots of invalid logic in the book.
- There are lots and lots and lots of invalid statements in the book.
- There are lots and lots of contradictions in the book.
- There are lots and lots of unclear language in the book.
- There are lots and lots of grammatical and linguistic errors in the book.
- There are lots and lots of non-Arab words in a book claiming to be in pure Arab.
- And not least: There is not one valid proof for any of the central religious claims. Not one.
- Not to mention that Allah(?) used an incomplete alphabet, which means that today there are between 20 and 30 versions of the Quran accepted as correct - even though they differ considerably - by Islam. Of these 6 are in daily use today, with the 2 dominating being the version of Asim from Kufa after Hafs and the one of Nafi from Mecca after Warsh (facts never mentioned by Islam - most Muslims have never been told, and honestly believe that "the Quran is the words of Muhammad, exact down to the last comma" (in spite of that the comma did not exist in Arab at that time)).
- PLUS A HISTORICAL FACT ISLAM AND ITS MUSLIMS N E V E R MENTION: THERE IS NOWHERE IN THE WORLD EVER FOUND EVEN ONE SINGLE TRACE FROM A BOOK LIKE THE QURAN - OR A RELIGION LIKE ISLAM - OLDER THAN 610 AD, WHEN MUHAMMAD STARTED HIS MISSION. (This in spite of that according to the Quran a similar book has been sent down to 124ooo (if each worked for 25 years = 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160ooo-200ooo. No traces found. Believe it if you can.) - according to Hadiths - prophets/messengers all over the world through the times + copies made from these. This is many more than there ever existed of the Bible, and from the Bible there are some 13ooo copies (of parts of the Bible - some 300 copies of Gospels) or scraps from the Bible + some 32ooo with quotes from or references to Biblical texts, all older than 610 AD. But as said from the Quran nothing.) NOT IN LITERATURE, NOT IN ARCHEOLOGY, NOT IN ART (this even though art in Islam often is to draw/paint quotes from the Quran in high quality script), NOT IN HISTORY. NOTHING. NOWHERE.
This proves 100% or more that the Quran is not made by an omniscient god - the mistaken facts alone prove this at least 100%.
In addition there are the other proofs - f.x. Jesus + the Qumran scriptures. And more science.
Also see 2/23f, 2/24a, 2/136a, 4/47c, 5/59e, 13/1f.
##004 6/114a: “Say ‘Shall I (Muhammad*) seek for another judge than Allah?” The point here is that according to Ibn Warraq: “Why I am no Muslim” p.174, the word “Say” is not in the Arab text. Besides making a clear contradiction of claims many places in the Quran, it means three things:
- It is not Allah, but Muhammad himself that is speaking. How can that be in a book claimed to be made eons ago? See 1/1-7a above.
- Even a top Muslim translator like Abdullah Yusuf Ali “doctors” his translations a “tiny wee bit” to make the Quran sound more correct. How much more is “doctored” – and how much is "doctored" in translations of the Quran from lower quality translators? (And it was the same at least in 2/286c - we have been told there at least are 8 cases of this, but seems to be more.)
- And not least: Here it is confirmed in writing that it is ok to correct the clumsy omniscient god Allah, when he says something different from what Islam wants to hear.
##005 11/2b: “(Say) ‘Verily, I (Muhammad') am (sent) unto you (people*) from Him (Allah*) - - -“. According to Ibn Warraq and to Muhammad Asad the word “(Say)” does not exist in the Arab original. This means that here it is Muhammad who speaks. There are a few places (8? + angels speaking (3?) according to Ibn Warraq) like that in the Quran. But how is it possible that Muhammad speaks in a book (presumed to (?) be made by Allah or existed since eternity – and sent down by Allah? (Some Muslims say the word is just forgotten – but how many more words may then have been forgotten in the Quran? And: Can an omniscient got forget?). Also see 2/286c.
006 11/2c: (A11/3): “(Say): ‘Verily (it definitely is no proved verity/truth*) I (Muhammad*) am (sent) unto you - - - .” This word “Say” does not exist in the Arab text. “The Message of the Quran” uses the expression “(Say, O Prophet)" and explains: “The interpolation, between brackets, of the words “Say, O Prophet” is necessitated by the first-person construction of this sentence”. That means that either we here have one of the places where Muhammad himself is speaking (there are something like 8 or more places where that is the case in the Quran), or we have one more place in the Quran where Islam confirms in writing that the text in the Quran is not always neither clear (as to who said this) nor correct. Clear texts easy to understand – and perfect because it is made by a god?
##007 11/2d: The text in the Arab original is: "Verily, I (Muhammad*) am sent onto you (people*) from Him (Allah*) - - -". Comment A11/3: "The interpolation, between brackets, of the words 'Say, O Prophet' is necessitated by the first-person construction of this sentence. (It is Muhammad who is speaking, but it should be Allah). And A. Yusuf Ali is even smarter - he simply and quietly adds the word "(Say)" without mentioning that it is not in the original. If the text tells something which does not fit Islam, just change it. (But where then goes the reliability of the scholars and the religion?)
008 15/92-93a: "Therefore, by (indicating an oath*) the Lord (Allah*), we will, of a surety, call them (some sinners*) to account, For all their deeds". Is it here Allah who is speaking? - but in that case Allah here swears an oath by Allah - somewhat special. Or is it Muhammad who is longing for to bring his opponents to account?
##009 19/36b: “Verily Allah is my (Muhammad’s*) Lord and your (Muslims’*) Lord - - -“. This is a serious one: Here clearly it is Muhammad himself – Muhammad the man - who is speaking. How is that possible in a book made by a god before the universe was created or may be one which has existed since eternity, and a copy of a revered Mother Book sent down from Heaven by Allah? (There are a few mistakes (?) like this (8?) in the Quran – see 6/114a.)
If Muhammad is speaking in the Quran - and he clearly does at least 8 places or more according to our sources - not all the words in the Quran are from Allah. How many are?
But then it definitely is no proved verity/truth that Allah really is a god, or that he in case is correctly described in the Quran.
#####010 27/91a: “For me (Muhammad*), I have been commanded to serve the Lord (Allah*) of this City (Mecca - this is from 615-616 AD when Muhammad still lived there*) - - - “. This is a serious one: It is Muhammad who is speaking once more - - - in a book presumed to be copy of a “mother book” in Paradise, a book which may be existed from eternity or perhaps was made by Allah. Pikthall and Dawood both camouflage this very revealing mistake (there are a few more where either angles (37/164-166) or Muhammad speaks) by adding the word “say:”, but that is not in the original, according to Ibn Warraq, “Why I am not a Muslim”, p.175. Dishonest by Pikthall and by Dawood in case. But then it happens you meet dishonesty when Muslims tries to “explain” things - even in books you should believe were intellectually of high quality and moral. (Like Al-Azhar University, Cairo, certifying that the Big Flood (7/64c+d) could be explained by the filling up of the Mediterranean See. They know very well that both the time and the way it happened prohibit that explanation - some 5 – 6 million years ago and “slowly” over a period of perhaps 100 years, (though there is a new Spanish theory that there was a sudden, large break-through 5.33 million years ago, and that it was filled up in ca. 2 years - but even according to this theory the water the worst periods rose peacefully and sluggishly 50 cm an hour) and not least; wrong place, as the Garden of Eden is believed to have been situated in what is now south Iraq (if it ever existed)). And how could the slow filling up of the Mediterranean explain that the ark ended on a 2089 m high mountain, which it did according to the Quran?
Anyhow a nice moment for Muhammad – he liked power. (Just look at how he glued himself to his platform of power; his god).
###011 27/91d: "- - - I (Muhammad*) am commanded to be of those who bow in Islam to Allah's will". Similar to 27/91a above - Muhammad speaking in a book pretended to be billions of years old. Explain it if you are able to (Muslims have several "explanations" but no explanation.)
012 35/11i: There is no indication for that it is Allah who is saying what is said in this verse. Is it Muhammad who once more is speaking himself in the "Mother Book" (see 13/39b above and 43/4 and 85/21-22 below)?
#####013 42/10a: “Whatever it be - - - such is Allah my (Muhammad's*) Lord: In Him I trust, and to Him I turn.” #####Muhammad is praying to or talking about Allah, not quoting him. In a book at least 13.7 billion years old (from before creation of the Universe) – and in a copy of a Mother Book (13/39b, 43/4, 85/21-22) revered by Allah in his own “home”. This is one of the at least 8 places or more in the Quran where Muhammad himself is talking. Some Muslims want to explain this away with that Allah or someone has forgotten the word "Say", but if that is the case how many more places in the Quran has he then made mistakes? - and how can an omniscient god make mistakes or forget? It also tells something about Muslims' honesty that some translators or commentators add the word "Say" in front of places Muhammad is speaking in the Quran, indicating that it in reality is Allah who has said it. (They explain that the text makes the word "Say" necessary - and they are right if the meaning is to explain away what the Quran really says.)
034b We may add that the information that Muhammad here changes to praying, is from Islamists. We will add that just in this case we disagree with them - we see it as part of his speech, not as a prayer.
##014 51/50: “I (Muhammad*) am from Him (Allah*) a warner to you - - -.” Here is one more of those really bad ones: Suddenly the book changes from Allah speaking to Muhammad speaking. ###But how is it possible for Muhammad to speak in a book that pretends to be billions of years old (from eternity – before the universe (see 51/47c) was created 13.7 billion years ago) or made by Allah in his heaven eons ago?
##915 51/50-51a: “I (Muhammad*) am from Him (Allah*) a Warner to you (Muslims*), clear and open. And make not another (person/thing/idea*) an object of worship with Allah: I am from Him a Warner to you, clear and open!” Here is no “Say” or other indication for that Muhammad is quoting anything – he simply is speaking himself, forgetting he should pretend that he is quoting a copy of the Mother Book (13/39, 43/4, 85/21-22) made and revered in Heaven. Either that, or Allah has forgotten to say it – and how much else has he then forgotten? – or Muhammad forgot, and in case may have forgotten more.
Also a never proved claim.
016 51/51d: “I (Muhammad*) am from Him (Allah*) a warner to you - - -.” See 51/50 above.
75/1aa: "I do call to witness - - -". Here it is likely it is Muhammad who is speaking. But how can he talk in a book made before the world was created? Something is seriously wrong.
###017 84/15+16: “For his Lord (Allah*) was ever watchful of him (non-Muslim*)! So I (Muhammad*) do call to witness the ruddy glow of Sunset - - -”. A serious one - here it once more is Muhammad who is speaking - in what is said to be the copy of the Mother Book (43/4) in Heaven, made of Allah and existed since eternity. How is that possible?
018 90/1b: "I do call to witness - - -". Here it is likely it is Muhammad who is speaking. But how can he talk in a book made before the world was created? Something is seriously wrong.
019 92/14a: "- - - I (Allah or Muhammad speaking? - Allah normally uses "We", not "I", whereas Muhammad normally uses "I"*) warn you (people*) of a Fire blazing fiercely - - -". See 3/77b above.
020 111/1-5: "Perish the hands of the Father of Flames! Perish he! No profit to him from all his wealth, and all his gains! Burnt soon will he be in a Fire of blazing Flame! His wife shall carry the (crackling) wood - as fuel! - A twisted rope of palm-leaf fiber round her (own) neck." This is said against Muhammad's uncle, called Father of Flame because of reddish skin.(See 111/1 just above) The scholars say that for one thing a surah like this does not belong in a holy book, and for another is not worthy of a god, and consequently must be wrong. (Also f.x. some verses concerning Muhammad's private affairs have a doubtful reputation among some scholars.) Many Muslim scholars as said say that this surah is not from Allah, which in case means it is Muhammad who is speaking.
021 113/1aa: A serious one: According to our sources the word "say" are not in the original Arab text (there are indications for that this is the case several places in the Quran according to f.x. ibn Warraq: "Why I am not a Muslim", chapter 5, subchapter "The Words of God"). Then it is Muhammad who is saying:" I seek refuge with the Lord of the Dawn (Allah*)". This also is one of the surahs (others were no. 1 and no.114) Ibn Masud, one of Muhammad's companions - d. ca. 652 AD - said did not belong in the Quran. But if some surahs wrongly have ended in the Quran, how many more do not belong there?
But how could Muhammad speak in a book made before the world was created, or which existed since eternity? Something is seriously wrong.
Plus: How reliable is a religion which uses falsifications to hide serious errors?
022 114/1aa: A serious one: According to our sources the word "say" are not in the original Arab text (there are indications for that this is the case several places in the Quran according to f.x. ibn Warraq: "Why I am not a Muslim", chapter 5, subchapter "The Words of God"). Then it is Muhammad who is saying:" I seek refuge with the Lord and Cherisher of Mankind (Allah*)". This also is one of the surahs (others were no. 1 and no.113) Ibn Masud, one of Muhammad's companions - d. ca. 652 AD - said did not belong in the Quran. But if some surahs wrongly have ended in the Quran, how many more do not belong there?
But how could Muhammad speak in a book made before the world was created, or which existed since eternity? Something is seriously wrong.
Plus: How reliable is a religion which uses falsifications to hide serious errors?
AND MUHAMMAD WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE SPEAKING IN THE QURAN - ALSO ANGELS DID, AND THUS THE QURAN BECAUSE OF THIS CANNOT BE OLDER THAN AFTER THE ANGELS WERE CREATED. WORSE: AS THEY ARE SPEAKING TO HUMANS, THE QURAN CANNOT BE OLDER THAN THE FIRST HUMANS (naturally, as if Muhammad spoke in the Quran. the Quran cannot be older than Muhammad).
Angels are speaking at least in 19/64, 37/164-166, and 41/30-32. And there are a number others where it may be angels and not Allah who speak - f.x. 6/99 and 25/45.
As the angels in 19/64 are speaking to humans, the text has to be younger than the first humans.
023 2/30b: The angels questioning the wisdom of creating man. Not from the Bible.
024 2/34c: "- - - they (the angels*) bowed down (to Adam*) - - -". This means they accepted him/man as being superior to them. Quite different to the Bible. There it is not specified exactly what standing angels have, but clearly more than humans.
This also means that the Quran cannot have been written until after the angels were created - and after Adam was created - not unless Allah's predestination is total and life just a theater.
025 19/64a: ("The angels say:) "We descend not but by command of thy (people's*) Lord - - -". Here the Quran quotes angels = the Quran has to be younger than the first angels.
####026 37/164-166: Here according to most Islamic scholars, it is the angles who are talking. That at least means the Quran cannot have existed since eternity, like many Muslims like to believe: It must have been made, and made after at least some angels had been created – if not the angels could not have spoken in the book.(There also are some 8 places or more where Muhammad is speaking - an impossibility if the "Mother Book" in Heaven which the Quran is said to be an exact copy of, is really old.)
##027 41/30b: "'Fear ye (Muslims*) not' (they suggest (= this is something happening "now")), 'nor grieve! But receive the Glad Tidings of the Garden (of Bliss), that for which ye were promised!'" (Also see 41/31 and 41/32 below.) Some Muslims claim that the Quran - or really the "mother book" in Heaven which the Quran is an exact copy from - is never made, but has existed since eternity. Here it is proved once more that this claim is not correct: It is angels who are speaking here. This proves that the claimed "mother book" must be younger than the first angels - yes younger than the first humans, as they are speaking to humans - , and the angels have not existed since eternity (and definitely the same goes for humans) - actually they are created by Allah from light, according to the Quran. Worse: They are speaking to Muslims, which means that the claimed "mother book" cannot be older than the first Muslims. Worst: The first sure trace from Muslims is from 610 AD. Is 610 AD the age of the oldest parts of the claimed "mother book"? Also see the rest of this verse and the next two ones.
########028 41/30ba: "'Fear ye (Muslims*) not' (they (angels*) suggest (= this is something happening "now")), 'nor grieve!" Here angels are speaking in the Quran. This is one more proof for that "the Mother of the Book" of which the Quran is a copy according to Islam, cannot have existed since eternity - it cannot have been written until after the first angels were created. Further: The angels are speaking to humans - to good Muslims even. This proves that "the Mother of the Book"/the Quran cannot have been written until after the first humans were created/born.
029 41/31a: The angels continue to speak. See 41/30b above - and this and next verse below.
030 41/31b: “We (the angels or Allah *) are your (humans') protector in this life and in the Hereafter.” But contradicted at least by this:
- 2/107: “And beside Him (Allah*) ye have neither patron nor helper.”
031 41/32a: The angels finish their speech in this verse. Also see the two verses above - 41/30 and 41/31.
032 41/32b: "- - - a hospitable gift (Paradise*) - - -". If the Quran has told the full truth and only the truth, and if Allah exists and is a god correctly described by the Quran.
033 41/32c: "- - - One (Allah*) Who is Oft-Forgiving - - -". Allah can forgive nobody unless he exists and is a god.
Also 16/63 uses the word "today", referring to the time Muhammad released it:
###034 16/63f: "- - - he (Satan*) is also their (non-Muslims'*) patron today - - -". No comments. But if Muslims accuse us or you for negative words about Muslims or Muhammad, there are some points against non-Muslims which are difficult to surpass, in the Quran. Practical to know if you are accused of indecency towards Muhammad or something sometime.
Sub-total Chapter 32 = 34 + 3.197 = 3.231.
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This work was upload with assistance of M. A. Khan, editor of islam-watch.org and the author of "Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism, and Slavery".