Allah in the Quran, Chapter 80

 

Chapter 80

ALLAH AND DIFFERENT PROPHETS AND MESSENGERS - REAL ONES?

 

This subject is more thoroughly handled in the our book "Humans, Other Beings, etc. in or relevant to the Quran" (expected late 2015 or 2016). Here we sort the texts according to the numbers in the Quran, so as to give you at least a small impression of the virr-varr in that book. In the mentioned book they are all listed alphabetically. If you are looking for information about someone particular, it there is easier to get a reasonably full overview over what the Quran says about a person or whatever.

Finally: Always when you read the Quran, Hadiths, and other Islamic books, you should remember that Muhammad accepted the use of and himself used dishonesty in many forms in words and deeds. Even if the names are younger, it was he who institutionalized dishonesty like al-Taqiyya (the lawful lie), Kitman (the lawful half-truth), Hilah (the lawful pretending/circumventing), the use of deceit ("war is deceit" - and "everything" is war), betrayal (f.x. the peace delegation from Khaybar), and even the disuse of oaths (2/225, 5/89, 16/91, 66/2 - and the star case 3/54 (if Allah could cheat, cheating is ok)), which also includes the disuse of words and promises, as they are weaker than oaths = when oaths can be disused, so can words and promises. On top of this it is very clear from the Quran and all other central Islamic books, that Muhammad also liked respect and power and women. Combine these lusts with his acceptance of and personal use of dishonesty - even the gravest kinds: How reliable are that kind of men normally? - and how true and reliable are their never proved claims and tales?

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001 2/49e: "- - - a tremendous trial from your (the Jews'*) Lord - - -". Contradicting the Bible - according to the Bible this was not a trial from Yahweh, but from the Egyptians.

002 2/50a: “- - - We (Allah*) divided the sea for you (Moses and his Jews*) - - -“. From other places in the Quran (and in most translations of the Bible) it is told that this was the Red Sea. But in the Hebrew original the name is Yam Suph, which as well can mean “The Sea of Reeds” (this also is confirmed in many footnotes in NIV (“New International Version” of the Bible)). The Sea of Reeds (also called the Timsah Sea) used to be a big lake where the Suez Canal now runs – not far from the Bitter Seas. The name tells it was just a shallow lake – the longest reeds we have been able to find, is a kind of rice that can be up to 5 - 7 m long and grows in the big sea Tonle Sap in Cambodia, and the reeds growing in this area of Egypt are shorter - - - and the water cannot be deeper than the reeds get their “heads” above the water to get that name.

It is possible to find the lake on old maps from before the Suez Canal was built, f.x. one surveyed by the French Army Cartographers in 1797-98 (Napoleon Bonaparte was in Egypt), and printed in Paris in 1826. (Available at the David Rumsey Historical Map Archive on Internet). It seems that the lake not only was shallow, but so shallow that it could dry out at times of the year when it did not get water from the Nile.

Also look at the map: Goshen where the Jews settled was in the river delta of the Nile. To get to Sinai they had to go south-south-east. It would be stupidity beyond any credibility to go so far west that they ended at the western side of the Red Sea instead of walking all the way on dry land, and thus force such a huge number of people and animals to cross the sea by boats they did not have (remember they did not know about the opening of the sea – fire/smoke-column or not (= the pathfinder/Yahweh according to the Bible)). After all they according to the Bible were 600ooo men + women + children + animals and belongings = some 2.ooo.ooo humans at least. (Theoretically it is quite possible for 70 – 100 (depending on how many wives his 11 sons in the group had) persons that came with Jacob + Joseph and his family, to become may be 2.ooo.ooo “Jews” 430 years later. (Plus it is likely many other slaves claimed they were Jews and joined them, to get freedom.))

Science tells that – if the Exodus took place – the “Jews” quite likely were overtaken as they marched or camped along that lake, just like the Hebrew name in the OT may indicate.

*003 2/53b: “- - - We (Allah*) gave Moses the scripture - - -”. The books named after Moses (the 5 first in the Bible - the Torah) are not written by Moses and not even at the time of Moses. Moses lived (if he is not a fiction) around 1300-1200 BC (if the Exodus from Egypt really took place, it took place ca. 1235 BC during the reign of Pharaoh Ramses II according to science), and those books were written not earlier than ca. 800 BC - perhaps as late as 500 BC - also this according to science. (But remember there is a difference between writing down a story later, and falsifying a story, like Muslims claims - without and even against documentation. It also is likely there were written documents). What Moses got according to the Bible, were the 10 Commandments written in stone + he was told the law (parts of what later was called the Book (or Books) of Moses - in 2/53 called the Scriptures) which he himself wrote down afterward (this sometimes is called "the Book of Covenant" - f.x. 2. Mos. 24/7). A god had known this, whereas Muhammad knew nothing about their real age, and had to guess. (To be exact: The Bible says that Yahweh told Moses the law – nothing material except the two stone tablets where the ten Commandments were inscribed, were brought down from the mountain – and that he himself wrote down the laws afterward. OT also says that when Solomon moved the Ark of Covenant into the Temple in Jerusalem (1.Kings 8/9), it only contained the two stone tablets. There is nothing about “the Books of Moses”, though the OT makes it clear that the laws existed in writing ("The Book of Covenance"), and were found again later – but science is unanimous that the Books of Moses (you also see it written in singular) are written much later. If Muslims claim something else, they will have to produce proofs.) The law really only is part of the Torah/Books of Moses, but the name often is used for the complete "Books of Moses".

004 2/55a: (The Jews said): "O Moses! We shall never believe in thee until we see Allah Manifestly." Even if we omit the fact that the Bible talks about Yahweh, not about Allah like the Quran claims, this is in stark contradiction to the Bible, which tells that first all the Jews unanimously promised: "We will do everything the Lord (Yahweh*) has said." (2.Mos. 19/8). And shortly afterwards Yahweh himself told he would descend down to Mount Sinai (2.Mos. 19/10-11), whereas the Jews themselves were reluctant and afraid to witness what happened (2.Mos. 20/18). Muhammad had little knowledge about the Bible, etc. This also have some small consequences later in the Quran, as Muhammad once or twice refers to this episode and tells his own troubles are alike the claimed disbelief Moses here met (wrong according to the Bible) - a way to "prove" that he was in a similar position to Moses. This quote simply is not from the Bible, and is contradicted by it. Also see 2/108a below.

005 2/67-71b: There is nothing like this about Moses in the Bible. (There is an order for sacrificing a red (the color given) heifer in 4. Mos. 19/2, but both the story, the circumstances and the purpose are totally different.) It may be a contorted copy of 4. Mos. 19/1-9, or it may be taken from a legend. Muslims often claim it must be read like a parable - a Muslim standard "explanation" when explaining away mistakes or difficult points - but the Quran does not say so.

006 2/108a: “Wouldst ye (Muslims*) question your Messenger (Muhammad*) as Moses was questioned of old?” The Quran says that if it was wrong to ask Moses to show people their god, then it is wrong to ask Muhammad for proofs. Muhammad’s logic is not perfect - there is a difference between asking to see a god and asking for proofs of his existence - but it was a way to evade the questions. Besides: According to the Bible, it was Yahweh who chose to come down, not the Jews who asked him - on the contrary it frightened them. (1.Mos. 19/7-11 + 19/18).Also see 2/55 above - though some Muslims claim this refers to all the work Moses had settling disputes before he delegated power to others (1.Mos. 18/17-24) and in this case also this is an acceptable explanation.

##007 2/125e: "We (Allah*) covenanted with Abraham and Ishmael - - -". The Bible is contradicting: (1.Mos.17/21) Yahweh says: "But my covenant I will make with Isaac" ("covenant" in singular = only Isaac). And many years later to Isaac's son Jacob (and now Ishmael is totally out of the picture) similar words like the ones which were said to Abraham 2 generations earlier (1.Mos. 28/14): "All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring". There is no doubt according to the Bible with which branch of Abraham's descendants the god covenanted. Even if the Arabs really were descendants of Ishmael, they had belonged to the wrong branch of the family - they were not the offspring of Jacob, and not even of Isaac. And it is likely this might be the reality - at the time when the Torah was written, there was no reason for the writers to place Ishmael and his descendants at the border of Egypt (1.Mos. 25/18) if he really lived in Arabia - Muhammad and his competing religion still was 1000+ years into the unknown future when it was written. But for Muhammad the situation was different: It is quite common for emerging sects and religions to "high-jack" parts of a mother religion - it gives "weight" and tradition to the new sect/religion. For Muhammad it would pay to "take over" a known name like Ishmael. It obviously also would pay for him to take over the claimed center of the religious world - even a made up claim works if people believe in it.

Another fact: Modern DNA-analysis has showed that the Arabs are no coherent tribe. They are a mixture of many nations - not strange lying at a crossroad with travelers passing thought, and where sex and alcohol were "the two delightful things" until Muhammad took over. And also Arab tradesmen brought brides and slaves back home even long before Muhammad, not to mention all the slave women who were brought home after the robberies made the Arabs rich enough to afford more/many women. The "Arab Blood" is strongly diluted and mixed up, and even was never a homogenous tribe originally - the original settlers drifted in from all around when the land was settled, first the coastal areas, and much later the interior. What the English called "a real Heintz". (Heintz sold spices and their slogan was "57 varieties" - the English used the expression for cats and dogs and others of very mixed races.)

What the Bible really says about Ishmael in relevant connections is:

(1. Mos. 16/7): The pregnant Hagar fled from Abraham and Sarah (then named Sarai - not mentioned in the Quran), and "The angel of the Lord found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur". Shur was a desert area east of the Gulf of Suez in Egypt. Shur extended southwards past the northern end of the Red Sea, "opposite Egypt" = roughly east of where the Suez Canal now runs and a little down the east side of the Red Sea. 1): Hagar may have headed towards her home country Egypt. 2): Abraham had to be far west - and very far from Arabia/Mecca - for her to find that road, as that road run inland from the Mediterranean Sea (far inland but in that region). This even more so as Mecca lies far down on the Arabian peninsula.

(1. Mos. 21/12-13): "But God/Yahweh said to him (Abraham*), 'Do not be so distressed about the boy (Ishmael*) and your maidservant (Hagar - Ishmael's mother*). Listen to what Sara (Abraham's wife*) tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. I will make the son of your maidservant into a nation also, because he is your offspring".

(1. Mos. 20/1): "Now Abraham moved - - - into the region of Negev and lived between Kadesh and Shur. Kadesh was a town West of the southern end of the Dead sea, between the Dead Sea and the Mediterranean Sea, and a bit more than halfway to the Mediterranean Sea. The desert of Shur was west of Kadesh direction Egypt and near the Gulf of Suez in Egypt and southwards past the northern end of the Red Sea. (You will meet Muslims claiming Kadesh was in or near Mecca, and others claiming it was near Petra in Jordan - necessary to be able to move the Paran desert area to the Faran Mountain and the Faran Wilderness on the Arab peninsula, rename it Paran like the Muslims have done, and claim this Paran/Faran is the Paran of the Bible (- even though there is no doubt where the Paran of the Bible was - there is a little too much of this kind of dishonesty in Islam.)) But to tell Abraham settled between Shur (near Egypt) and Jordan or Mecca is not even comical - Muslims often are very clever at finding solutions they want to find, but forgetting or "forgetting" details - or big things - making the claimed solution wrong or invalid.) The point here is that Abraham now was living in Negev in the west, not so very far from the Mediterranean Sea area, and in the region where the road to Shur and on to Egypt crossed. The Bible tells when Abraham made major moves, and it does not mention that Abraham left this region until after Isaac was born and after Hagar and Ishmael (who must have been something like 14 - 16 years by then - he was born when Abraham was 86 years (1. Mos. 16/16) and circumcised when Abraham was 99 and Ishmael 13 years old (1. Mos. 17/24-25), and this was a bit later) had left Abraham's camp. Which indicates that Hagar and Ishmael left his camp in this area - something which may correspond well with that they took the road to Shur and on to the border of her homeland, Egypt, and settled there like the Bible tells: 1. Mos. 25/18: "His (Ishmael's*) descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt". The desert of Shur is well known, but this Havilah (there is another connected to the Garden of Eden) is not clearly located, but is believed to have been in the southern part of Palestine. (We may add that Muslim sources we find on Internet - f.x. www.jamaat.net/compl/arabsinthebible.html - admits that "the wilderness of Paran" = Faran in Arabic (= in reality wrong name).)

(1. Mos. 21/18): "- - - I (Yahweh*) will make him (Ishmael*) into a great nation". See further down.

(1. Mos. 21/14): "She (Hagar) went on her way and wandered in the desert of Beersheba", which meant that she had to leave Abraham somewhere in what is now the south of Israel (Beersheba itself is some 70 miles (ca. 115 km) south of Tel Aviv) in a part of the Negev desert bordering or part the Paran area bordering Sinai - Sinai as you most likely know is a peninsula to the southwest of Israel, bordering Egypt (the Arabian peninsula is to the southeast and with the Bay of Acaba between it and the Sinai peninsula).

(1. Mos.21/15): "When the water in the skin was gone, she put the boy under one of the bushes". It would not be possible for Hagar to walk to Mecca - hundreds of miles through hot desert - with the only water she had was one water skin. (Besides there was no sane reason for her to walk that way - this even more so as she was not from Arabia, and had absolutely no known connection to that area, but was from Egypt = in the west.)

(1. Mos. 21/21): "While he (Ishmael*) lived in the desert of Paran, his mother (Hagar*) got a wife for him from Egypt". Muslims dearly wants Paran to mean Paran in Arabia (the name really was Faran, but has become Paran because Muslims wanted it to be a reference from the Bible), but Paran Desert was an area south of Canaan - and south of Beersheba - bordering North Sinai and reaching towards Elath. The name of the area today is el-Tih. The Desert of Paran also contained the Mountain of Paran mentioned in 5. Mos. 33/2. As Paran bordered Canaan, Moses sent his 12 spies into Canaan from here (from in or near the town of Kadesh) - if he had sent them from Paran/Faran in Arabia, they first would have had to cross hundreds of miles - and kilometers - of forbidding desert to reach Canaan. And how far would Hagar have had to travel to find a wife from Egypt to him? (It is typical for Muslim argumentation to produce claims where details - or not details - are omitted to get the (made up) argument they want - you meet this technique a bit too often. It is one of the problems we meet when studying Islamic literature - all information has to be checked, because you never know what is true and what is f.x. an al-Taqiyya (lawful lie), a Kitman (lawful half-truth), or even just wishful thinking helped by invalid logic (Muslims often jumps from "this may be a possibility" or even weaker to "it is like this") to make things fit the Quran. It may seem like many Muslims in addition are little trained in the use of the laws of logic and in critical thinking.)) (For some reason or other Islam and its Muslims also seldom claim that Islam is the religion of honesty.)

But the Muslims' high-jacking of Paran has one good effect: They have placed lots of pictures from Paran/Faran in Arabia on Internet. Paran/Faran itself is a mountain, and the wilderness is lying near and mainly north of Mecca, and Abraham would have had to cross the large desert now called the Paran Wilderness by Muslims, to reach Mecca - and live in it, as Mecca used to be similar to this at that time. Open some of the pages and look at the pictures: How tempted would Abraham be to go into hundreds of miles of this with all his cattle? Exactly not at all. (This in addition to that it is well known where the real Paran from the Bible was).

(1. Mos. 25/16): "These (the 12 sons of Ishmael*) are the names of the 12 tribal rulers - - -" = the great nation mentioned in 1. Mos.21/18 - Muslims never mention this verse. (But there is a large difference between a promise to make them a great nation and a covenant. Also remember that a great nation at that time was something different from today - f.x. Abraham with his 318 men beat the combined forces of 4 kings in battle near Dan (1. Mos. 14/14-15))

(1. Mos. 25/18): "His (Ishmael's*) descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur (see above*), near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur (= eastwards*)". One more verse Muslims never - never - mention.

(1. Mos. 25/18): "And they (the sons of Ishmael) lived in hostility toward all their brothers". Also this a verse Muslims never mention - perhaps because they want it to have been a good relationship so that there still could be a brotherhood when Moses made his speech in 5. Mos. 500 - 700 years later, and when Muhammad came some 2500 years later - - - if the Arabs in spite of these facts are descendants from among many others Ishmael.

There are two ways to understand this sentence: They lived in hostility towards each other, or they lived in hostility towards the sons of their uncle Isaac. As it is said in 1. Mos. 21/18 that they - the 12 tribes descending from Ishmael - became a great nation, the second meaning is the likely one. May be partly for this reason, the descendants of Ishmael are never in the Bible reckoned by the Jews to be relatives, or at least very, very distant such ones.

All this points to that Hagar and Ishmael left the camp of Abraham in west Negev, took the road towards Shur, direction Egypt and settled near the border of Egypt, likely north of the desert Shur - i.e. between Shur and the Mediterranean Sea somewhere - - - pretty far from Arabia and Mecca, and in nearly exactly the opposite direction.

One final and partly different point: As mentioned costal Arabia was settled around 5ooo BC (or earlier). The interior was settled perhaps 2ooo-3ooo years or a bit more later. By 1800 BC the peninsula had a reasonably big population. Even if Ishmael took all his 12 sons and moved to Arabia, how big percent of the total population of Arabia would they make up? In other words: How big percent of the forefathers of the Arabs of today, or at the time of Muhammad, did Ishmael represent? - a small number behind a lot of zeroes behind a comma. Even in the unlikely case that Ishmael had settled in Arabia and not near Egypt, Arabs 2400 years later (Muhammad) or 3800 years later (today) were/are not the descendants of Ishmael, but the descendants of all the people living in Arabia in the old times, of which Ishmael in case had made up only a miniscule part of a percent (for the Jews the picture is a bit different, because of the restrictions on marrying outside the group - a restriction often broken, but all the same relatively effective). This in addition to all later mixing with people from the outside, included hundreds of thousands (likely a some millions) slave girls imported to a miserable life in the harems of Arabs before and after Muhammad.

Also see 2/127a below.

008 2/125-132: This is too long to quote, but it is clear that according to the Quran Abraham was a devote Muslim and bowed to Allah in Islam long before Muhammad. These verses thus clearly contradict the verse 6/14 and some others in one of the two possible meanings of that verse. See 6/14 below. Not to mention that it contradicts the OT where Abraham is said to believe in Yahweh.

009 2/177j: "- - - the Messengers - - -". Hadiths mention there have been at least 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) messengers/prophets for Islam all over the world through the times, included Muhammad. But except for the Jewish ones - and Muhammad(?) - no trace has been found neither from any of them, nor from any of the 124ooo copies of the Quran claimed sent down to them from Allah (compare this to some 45ooo from the Bible from before 610 AD). And as for Muhammad, see 63/5a below.

######An interesting mathematical fact: If we operate with a normal religious time frame, Adam lived something like 5ooo years before the claimed last prophet, Muhammad. If we say that Hadiths' number 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) had been correct, and that each of them worked for 25 years, there all the time from Adam till Muhammad should be on average 620 active prophets working for Allah around the world (more than 3 in every country during all those thousands of years). None of them (except the old Jewish ones - really working for Yahweh) left one single trace anywhere on the entire Earth. Even if you reckon the entire age of Homo Sapiens - 160ooo-200ooo years - there in case during all these eons have been 15-20 prophets working all the time. But no trace from them or a religion like Islam, a god like Allah - or a book like the Quran.

Believe it if you are able to.

010 2/213b: "- - - Allah sent Messengers (to homo sapience when they were only one tribe(?) - see 2/213a just above*) - - -". Muhammad claimed that all people through all times all over the world have received prophets/messengers (f.x. 4/47, 16/36, 30/47, 35/24 and indirectly 22/34 and 22/67) - the number 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) is mentioned in Hadiths. Neither science nor Islam has found any traces from them.

011 2/247c: “Allah hath appointed Talut (Saul in the Bible*) king over you (Jews shortly before 1000 BC*)”. Most likely it was Yahweh (God) who did so, or what? Allah and Yahweh are not the same god no matter what Islam wants – the fundamental differences of the teachings are too big and too many. Not unless the god is mentally ill – and of course only if he exists.

012 2/249a: "When Talut (King Saul*) set forth with his armies, he said: 'Allah (more likely Yahweh*) will test you at the stream - - -". This seems to be a mix-up of two stories in the Bible: Saul's wars with the Philistines, and Gideon's earlier war with the Midianites. Gideon had an episode where he chose his soldiers according to how they drank from the Jordan river - Judges 7/7 (he was to wise a general to ask his soldiers go thirsty into battle) - Saul you find in 1.Samuel (David vs. Goliath in 1. Sam 17/4-48). There is no similar episode involving King Saul. The Quran here has wrong man and wrong time compared to the Bible.

013 2/253b: "- - - others (other messengers*) He (Allah*) raised to degrees (of honor) - - -". Here we find an interesting piece of translation. According to our sources the exact translation of the Arab original is: "and some he raised even higher". Translators dearly wants this to refer to Muhammad - and it well may, as it is Muhammad himself who dictated the text to his listeners. But it is not clear - and "higher" may mean physically or spiritually. Remember that according to the Bible 2 or 3 of the prophets (Elijah (2. Kings 2/11) and Jesus (NT) and perhaps Enoch (Gen. 5/24)) were raised up to Heaven alive. By adding the words "(of honor)", the translators omits the physical possibilities - and as in Islam Muhammad of course is worth more than Jesus, it is quite likely it is Muhammad who is meant(!). (This in spite of that both according to the Quran and to the Bible Jesus had a different and closer contact to the god than Muhammad - f.x. he had the ability to make miracles, and the Quran (19/19) even confirms Jesus was holy, something Muhammad definitely was not).

But if the quote tells the truth or not in case, is another question - much is wrong in the Quran.

014 2/258c: "My (Abraham's*) Lord (here claimed to be Allah*) is He who giveth life and death." Variations of this interesting claim you meet several places in the Quran - interesting because Allah and Muhammad never were able to prove anything like this, whereas if the old books tell the truth, Yahweh proved it at least 9 times in the Bible (1. Kings 17/22, 2. Kings 4/35, Mark 5/41, John 11/44, Luke 7/15, Matt. 27/52, Acts 9/40, Acts 20/10 + Jesus) and at least one or two times in the Quran (f.x. Jesus and the claimed clay bird) - if the books are reliable at this point. As for Jesus: As it is clear - if at least one of the book tells the truth about this - that the old Jewish god really had power over death, there is no real reason why Jesus could not be killed and resurrected, except that then he clearly was something Muhammad was not, and with connections Muhammad had not, and Muhammad thus impossibly could be the greatest of the prophets. Jesus, therefore, had to be "played down" to make him smaller than the claims about Muhammad.

015 3/3l: "- - - He (Allah*) sent down the Law (of Moses) - - -". Contradicted by the Bible which claims it was sent down by Yahweh - a god very different from Allah, especially like you find him in NT.

016 3/59c: (Allah said:) "'Be' and he (Adam/Jesus?*) was". This is in strict contradiction to the verse claiming the god could not have a son, because he had no woman. Yahweh could do the same to create Jesus.

017 3/67d: "- - - he (Abraham*) joined no gods with Allah". Well, according to the Bible Abraham's god was not Allah, but Yahweh.

##018 3/81a: "Behold, Allah took the Covenant of the Prophets, saying: " - - - then comes to you a Messenger (Muhammad*) confirming what is with you (= the scriptures the prophets had and their teachings*); you must believe in him and rendering him help". There is nothing like this in the entire Bible. Besides: How could the prophets help Muhammad? - they were all dead hundreds of years before Muhammad was even born - many of them a thousand years and more before.

019 3/81b: "Behold, Allah took the Covenant of the Prophets, saying:" - - - then comes to you a Messenger (Muhammad*) confirming what is with you (= the scriptures the prophets had and their teachings*); you (the Jewish prophets*) must believe in him and rendering him help". A time anomaly. See 4/13d below.

##020 3/81e: "I (Allah*) give you (the prophets*) a Book - - -". Like mentioned other places the prophets all got a copy of the claimed "Mother of the Book" according to the Quran. The Quran claims that all societies to all times and all places have been sent prophets teaching Islam (but neither science nor Islam has found the tiniest traces of such prophets or teaching) - Hadiths mention 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) through the times, and even this may just be a symbolic number. And as you see here, they as mentioned each got a book which was a copy of the claimed "mother book" in Heaven, similar to the copy Muhammad claimed he got - the Quran. The claimed "mother book" either is made by the god or have existed since eternity, according to Muslims - and is revered by Allah and his angels. You of course are permitted to believe this, but the normal reaction when you meet this claim after having read the Quran and all its mistakes, contradictions, invalid logic, helpless language (helpless in bringing clear messages not to be misunderstood), etc., is disbelief or a hearty laughter - no god would revere a book of a quality like the Quran.

#####As all the claimed books, included the Bible and the Quran, were copies of the same book, all the books should be very similar. One of the very many never proved claims in the Quran - a claim which is proved wrong at at least two points: 1. Out of claimed at least 124ooo copies (according to Hadiths) + likely copies of these, not one single fragment or quote is ever found. This at least - at least - is a very strong circumstantial proof or even an empirical one for that the claim is wrong, this even more so as there are found tens of thousands of quotes, copies, and fragments from the Bible from the same period of time. 2. The Bible provably was never falsified. This again proves that the Bible and the Quran never was even similar books.

021 3/81l: "Allah said: 'Do ye (all the old prophets*) agree, and take this Covenant (including believing in and helping Muhammad*) as binding on you?' They said: 'We agree'". There is nothing even remotely similar to this in the Bible. Besides it was physically impossible: They all were dead centuries and even a millennia and more before Muhammad was even born.

022 3/81m: "Allah said: 'Do ye (all the old prophets*) agree, and take this Covenant (including believing in and helping Muhammad*) as binding on you?' They said: 'We agree'". He said: 'Then bear witness (about Muhammad*) - - -". They cannot have been very reliable, as exactly none of the known prophets ever mentioned him - included not Abraham, not Moses, and not Jesus to mention 3 of the main prophets according to the Quran (and yes, we know about the cherry-picked, wrong claims concerning 5. Mos. 18/15 and 18/18, and about the helper Jesus promised his disciples (the Holy Spirit) which Islam claims meant Muhammad 500+ years after the last disciple was dead).

023 3/179g: ""But He (Allah*) chooses of His Messengers (for the purpose) whom He pleases". Muhammad claimed the Jews did not believe in him because he was not a Jew (the real reason was that they knew their own old scriptures, and saw how much in Muhammad's teaching and what he claimed the old god said and wanted, were wrong compared to those scriptures. This is an argument against the Jews, but meant for his followers - the Jews knew he was not speaking the truth here. Worse: The last years - when Muhammad had got more knowledge about at least the OT, he had to see the difference himself and had to know something was wrong. But he blamed everything on falsification of the Bible even if he at this time had to know he was lying - his only way out if he wanted to save his religion and his platform of power - - - and his "face".

024 4/136o: "- - - His (Allah's*) Messengers (included Muhammad*) - - -". There in reality is known only one claimed messenger for Allah: Muhammad. All the other claimed ones just are not proved - and highly unlikely - claims. Yes, it is not even proved that Muhammad really was the representative of a god.

025 4/150d: "- - - His (Allah's*) Messengers (included Muhammad*) - - -". See 63/5a below.

026 4/153d: "- - - they (the Jews*) said (to Moses*): 'Show us Allah (Yahweh*) in public'". A strong contradiction to the Bible - and something there was no reason for falsifying: The Jews did not ask Moses to show them the god. It was Yahweh who for some reason wanted them to see him. (1. Mos. 19/3-24).

027 4/154a: "And for their (the Jews') Covenant We (the god*) raised over them (the towering height) of Mount (Sinai) - - -". The god - in the Quran claimed to be Allah - held the mountain above them (there is an old legend saying so, from which Muhammad got this idea), but our Muslim sources refrain from this way of understanding the words - too unbelievable, even though this is really what the Quran says - without really giving any explanation. But like so much in the Quran, it like mentioned is from an old, made up Arab legend. Taking much of his stuff from such fairy tales, Muhammad really made the Quran reliable.

028 4/163e: "- - - We (Allah*) sent it (messages by inspiration*) to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the (12 Jewish*) Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and to Solomon - - -". As Muhammad claimed he received his verses from Allah by inspiration, it was essential to "prove" that this was a normal way for prophets to receive information from the god. And NB: He used these claimed Muslim prophets as proofs for that "inspiration" was a normal way of communication. But the word "inspiration" is not used anywhere in the Bible in such connections. Also it is nowhere in the Bible mentioned that Ishmael had a close enough connection to Yahweh to be a prophet.

Another point is that according to the Bible, Muhammad here talks about Yahweh, not about Allah.

029 4/164a: "- - - and to Moses Allah spoke direct - - -". Omitting the fact that the Quran wrongly mixes Yahweh and Allah, Yahweh also spoke directly to others - f.x. Samuel (1. Sam. 3/4-14) and Jesus. (Muhammad knew very little about the Jewish prophets, but any god had known.)

030 5/20a: Moses talked about Allah. Especially as it is clear Yahweh and Allah cannot be the same god, and as all the really old manuscripts mention Yahweh only, it is highly unlikely Moses mentioned Allah - not to say it stronger. Also a contradiction to the Bible, which tells he talked about Yahweh only.

031 5/109a: "One day will Allah gather the Messengers together, and ask: 'What was the response ye received (from men to your teaching)?' They will say: 'We have no knowledge: it is Thou who knowest in full all that is hidden". This is not from the Bible, and there also is nothing similar there. Another indication for that Yahweh is not the same god as Allah.

032 6/42: "Before thee (Muhammad*) We (Allah*) sent (messengers) to many nations - - -". Muhammad claimed there had been sent messengers to all groups of humans throughout the history - and prehistory. The number 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) prophets through the millenniums are mentioned in Hadiths. The problem, however, is that no traces of all these claimed prophets or of the teaching of a monotheistic religion like Islam has ever been found, neither in history, nor in legends, nor in architecture (temples, etc), art, archeology, or anywhere - not even in fairy tales. The only exception is Israel, where a "narrow string" - often only one prophet of any consequence at a time, scattered through many centuries - kept the one god religion alive and mainly dominant. There is nothing else. Well, there are episodes like Akn Aton and his sun god in Egypt, but those few do not count here, except to a small degree the Zoroastrians, especially as they clearly were pagan religions. Nothing. No traces. And when you compare to the results of a few dozen real prophets in Israel + the traces Muhammad - one single claimed prophet - and are told that 124ooo others did not leave a single trace, you simply do not believe there ever were all those prophets - you believe it all is fantasy simply. If not Islam proves anything, but they never do - only claims. And remember: "Claims without proofs can be dismissed without proofs" - and even more so if there are strong indicia or even proofs for that they are wrong. The number 124ooo is not true - like so much else within Islam. Most likely the correct number is nil - and this may include Muhammad's claim about being a prophet (he according to the Quran was unable to make prophesies - "see the unseen" - and a man unable to make prophesies is no prophet).

033 6/90a: "Those were the (prophets) who received Allah's guidance - - -". There is documented only one (self proclaimed) prophet who has (claimed he has) got anything from Allah. Muhammad. And he only (claimed he) got the Quran. The others got it from Yahweh according to the Bible - a piece of information never proved wrong by the Quran - claims yes, proofs no.

##034 6/91c: "Who then sent down the Book which Moses brought?" This is intended as a rhetoric question with only one possible answer: Allah.

One thing is that the Bible tells he got what he got not from Allah (neither Allah nor Muhammad is mentioned in the Bible). More essential just here is that Moses did not get any book(s) - both according to the Bible which says he got 2 stone tablets + vocal information which he himself wrote down afterwards, and according to science which tells that the Books of Moses were written long time after his death. This simply is a try to make up a "proof" for that Allah might have sent down the Quran, but as the god did not send down the Bible, this claim is a total miss. Any god had known this and not made such a flop. Then who made the Quran?

Actually surah 6 is a bit hard upon the wishful thinking of Muslims:

  1. In 6/50 Muhammad confirms he cannot see what is hidden - the future - killing all the claimed miracles claimed made by Muhammad concerning seeing what was hidden (making prophesies), and indirectly also documenting he was no prophet - not knowing the future = unable to make prophesies, and a person unable to make prophesies is no prophet. (f.x. 5. Mos. 18/21 - in the same speech of Moses where Islam claims Moses foresees Muhammad when talking about "a prophet like me" - quite an irony when 18/21 indirectly, but clearly tells Muhammad was not even a prophet - he only "borrowed that impressive and imposing title" to quote an unknown wise man. (And among many others 18/2 tells Moses was speaking about Jewish "brothers" - Islam has cherry-picked and twisted 18/15 and 18/18 and used them in an al-Taqiyya.)
  2. Also connected to 6/50;(A6/39): "This denial on the part of the Prophet (Muhammad*) of any claim to supernatural power - - -". This states that Islam admits Muhammad had no supernatural power at all = absolutely no prophet - and thus that he was unable both to make miracles, to make Allah make miracles, and unable to make prophesies.
  3. In connection to 6/108 "The Message of the Quran" (comment 6/93) explains "- - - it is in the nature of man to regard the beliefs which have been implanted in him from childhood, and which he now shares with his social environment, as the only true and possible ones" - which explains in details why Muslims believe in spite of all facts proving something is seriously wrong with the religion.
  4. In connection to 6/148 (comment 6/141 in the same book) Islam has to admit that the claim that Allah decides everything - predestination - is impossible to combine with the claimed free will for man (and without free will it is morally wrong to punish man for sins), and full predestination also makes prayers meaningless and without effect, and forgiving impossible, as everything already is predestined - but "it all the same must be true, because Allah says so (in the Quran*)" the ultimate defeat for brain against blind belief.
  5. And in 6/151 may be the most well-known of the mistakes in the Quran accepted by Islam to be a mistake: "You are prohibited from - - - being good to your parents" (well, may be "Mary, sister of Aaron" is even more well-known, but that one is frequently tried explained away).

035 7/6d: "- - - those by whom We sent it (the claimed messages*)". = The claimed prophets/messengers. Islam claims there have been 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) or more (according to Hadiths) prophets through the times preaching Islam. There is not a single trace of any of them except Muhammad. Believe the claim if you want - for us to believe it, we need some proofs. A few prophets have changed the world history thoroughly - whereas 124ooo have left not even a whisper of a trace. Proofs really are needed.

124ooo prophets each working 25 years means some 620 prophets working all over the world at any time if we believe Adam was created some 5ooo BC, and 12-15 any time if we reckon the time of Homo Sapiens according to science (160ooo - 200ooo years). Except for the few Jewish ones and Muhammad, not one of them left any trace anywhere - #####a strong proof for that the claim is a made up one. An extra point here is that just for some thousand years man has known how to read and write - earlier claimed messenger would be unable to understand what their claimed delivered "Qurans" were for or what they told.

036 7/35e Verse 7/35 is a little complicated written - the Quran often is not very clear. In plain words: When prophets for Allah come to your community, good Muslims will benefit. (Whether it is true or not is another question.)

037 7/43i: "- - - the Prophets of our (Muslims'*) Lord (Allah*) - - -". This of course intends to include also Muhammad, but: No god uses a messenger telling his audiences a lot of things which are wrong. Plus: According to the Quran Muhammad was unable to make prophesies = he was no prophet. Perhaps a messenger or an apostle for someone or something, but no prophet.

038 7/53c: "The Prophets of our (Muslims'*) Lord (Allah*) did indeed bring true (tidings)." See 7/43g above.

##039 7/65a: "To the 'Ad people, (we (Allah*) sent) Hud - - -". The stories about Ad and Hud you find different places in the Quran, are not from the Bible. As far as we have been able to find out, they are from no written sources. Of interest may be that the tribes they are claimed to have served, may have existed, but in case many centuries later than the Quran tells (it tells that Moses mentioned them = they lived 1200 years BC or before).

040 7/65e: (Hud said:) "You (the Ad tribe*) have no other god but Him (Allah*)." As mentioned; according to Muhammad Allah throughout all times have been the one and main god to all people. He only have been overwhelmed and his teachings falsified by humans believing in pagan gods. False gods are much stronger than Allah it seems - if he exists. Also see 6/106b above.

041 7/69a: "Do ye (people*) wonder that there hath come to you a message from the Lord (Allah*) through a man of your own people - - -?" Muhammad is making - in the broad lines - an exact copy of his own situation, to show that his own situation is normal for prophets. There are several/many such cases in the Quran, making the "explanation" too obvious.

042 7/75c: “’Know ye (believers*) indeed that Salih (a claimed prophet for the tribe or people Thamud - he according to the Quran lived sometime between Noah and Moses, but after the claimed prophet Hud (of the three special Arab claimed prophets, Shu'ayb was the last one, and he is claimed to have lived 4 generations after Lot/Lut according to the Quran = somewhere around 1700 BC. Salih and Hud (the first one of the 3) lived earlier. But the enigma is that science says the tribes they are claimed to have worked in, may have existed - - - but very roughly 1ooo years later, and thus once more something is wrong) – Moses is said to speak about him, though not in the Bible*) is a prophet from his Lord?’ They said:’ We do indeed believe in the revelation which has been sent through him.'” (We may add that according to history the Thamud tribe lived much later - from some time in 1. millennium BC till well after Christ. One more error in the Quran.)

Comment to 7/75 (A7/58 - 7/60 in the 2008 English edition): “The contents of this message (lit., ”that with which he has been sent”) appeared to them justification enough to accept it on its merits, without the need of any esoteric “proof” of Silah’s mission. In this subtle way this statement of faith has a meaning which goes far beyond the story of the Thamud. It is an invitation to the skeptic who is unable to believe in the divine origin of a religious message, to judge it on its intrinsic merits, and not make his acceptance dependant on extraneous, and objectively impossible, proofs of its origin: for only through the contents can its truth and validity be established”.

Well, proofs – or at least documentation – is not more “objectively impossible” than that the Christians have got documentation in NT, and partly confirmed in the Quran, for that something supernatural was involved with Jesus and with Yahweh (another question is whether one wants to believe in that documentation or not). It ALWAYS is possible for a god to prove his existence (but not for a human to prove a god). What to be aware of here, is that Islam has not one single proof for anything concerning the religion – not one single bit; only the word of a man with a very special mentality and morality – or amorality. Therefore they have to argue for blind belief and for that proofs are unnecessary, yes, that demands for proofs are intellectual stupidity and lack of intelligence. Which they do. And which is wrong - in all aspects of life the most sure way to be cheated now and then, is to believe blindly. Besides: If intelligence is given by a god, surely his meaning was that we should use it.

One problem here is that it is logically and intellectually impossible to know something which is not proved. One maximally can believe strongly – sometimes so strongly that one believes one knows. But not proved beliefs never are more than beliefs – strong or not. But even strong beliefs ever so often have been – and are – wrong. People “knew” the Earth was flat – and it was wrong. Then people “knew” Earth was the centre of the geocentric universe (see 51/47c) – and it was wrong. Then people “knew” Sol or Helios (2 names for our sun) was the centre of heliocentric universe (see 51/47c) – wrong. And then they “knew” our galaxy (“The Milky Way”) was the entire universe (see 51/47c) – wrong once more. And in all religions – f.x. Islam - there are people who “know” they are right and that all others are wrong - - - and most of them have to be wrong (and Muslims with their somewhat special founder and everything built only on claims and with lots and lots and lots of mistakes, etc. in their holy book, in reality are in a most weak position for being among the ones – if any – who are right).

But because their total lack of proofs and even of real indicia, Islam claims and claims and strongly claims that the texts in a book with lots of mistakes and errors and wrongs, prove that a god has made it, that lack of ability to see this is your stupidity, not that the book is not perfect - and that blind belief is the ideal. Which is a main – if not the main – reason why Muslims and Islam cannot accept or see any mistake in the Quran, no matter how obvious: If there are mistakes in the Quran, it is not from a god - and then Islam is a false religion. That is a possibility too hard to face - strong belief in a made up pagan religion.

043 7/80a: "We (Allah*) also sent Lut (Lot*) - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which tells his god was Yahweh. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

044 7/80b: "We (Allah*) also sent Lut (Lot*) - - -". In the Quran Lot is a prophet. Not so in the Bible. (And in the Bible he as mentioned is connected to Yahweh, not to Il/al-Ilah/al-Lah (later also named Allah)).

045 7/89b: "- - - after Allah hath rescued us (Shu'yab*) from (polytheism*) - - -". It was a rescue only if Allah exists, is a god, and Islam a true religion. If not it just was a transfer from one superstition to another.

046 7/89f: "In Allah is our (Muslims'*) trust". But the only foundation for that trust is the Quran - or the copy of it Shu'ayb had received.

047 7/93b: "- - - the Message for which I (Shu'ayb*) was sent by my Lord (Allah*) - - -."If the message was like the one in the Quran, like the Quran indicates, it hardly was from any god - too many mistakes, etc.

048 7/94a: "Whenever We (Allah*) sent a prophet to a town - - -". Muhammad claimed all people, all over the world and all through history and pre-history had had prophets preaching about Allah. In Hadiths the number 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) prophets through the times is mentioned. Except for the Jewish prophets, neither science nor Islam has been able to find traces of even one or of their monotheistic teaching - no traces of an Islam before 610 AD has ever been found.

049 7/143b: "- - - Show (thyself (Yahweh, but here intended to mean Allah*) to me (Moses*) - - - (and the rest of the verse)". This is not in the Bible - actually the Bible tells exactly the opposite; that the god himself was the one who said he would show himself to the people - or at least let them hear him (2.Mos. 19/3-9).

050 7/143c: “- - - I (Moses) am the first to believe.” This one is similar to f.x. 6/14, except here it is Moses instead of Muhammad. But it contradicts the Quran's telling that f.x. Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, Joseph, Hud, Salih, Shu'ayb and others believed Muslims before him. And Moses and all the others were making a lie out of Muhammad’s saying that he – Muhammad – was the first. A number of contradictions. (2/127-133, 3/67, 6/14, 6/163, 26/51). Muslims tells that these contradictions are not contradictions, because it is meant the first of a group, a nation, or something – but that is not what the Quran says, and it also does not explain all cases.

051 9/70e: "- - - came their messengers - - -". The Quran claims all nations/groups/cultures all over the world and to all times have had messengers/prophets teaching Islam - Hadiths mention the number 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) prophets/messengers through the times (= 620 at any time. Except for the Jewish prophets - who did not teach about Allah, but about Yahweh - neither science nor Islam has found one single trace of even one of them. If not Islam brings solid proofs - but proofs, not lose claims - we judge that this just is a made up claim.

052 10/75a: "- - - after them We (Allah*) sent Moses and Aaron to Pharaoh and his chiefs - - -". Several time anomalies. And according to the Bible the god was Yahweh, not Allah. Also see 4/13d above.

053 10/81c: "- - - Allah - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which tells that Moses' god was Yahweh. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

054 10/103a: "- - - Our (Allah's*) messengers - - -". Muhammad claimed messengers/prophets had been sent from Allah to all times and to all places on Earth - Hadiths mention the number 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.). For the prophets he "borrowed" from the Bible this claim clearly is wrong, as the Bible and present-day reality (based on an unbroken tradition and old books) shows that their god was Yahweh, and as both science and Islam clearly has proved that the Bible is not falsified. And for all the rest with the single exception of Muhammad, not one single trace from them has been found in any aspect of life, history, religions, traditions, or even fairy tales. Wrong unless Islam proves the opposite.

#055 11/38: (A11/57 – in 2008 edition A11/61): Noah said to the surrounding people: “If you ridicule us now (for building the ark*), we (in our turn) can look down on you with ridicule likewise”. But according to Islam Noah was a prophet, and tells it is impossible for Islam to think that a prophet may be human enough to ridicule or scoffing anyone. #####Therefore the text must be wrong and in reality mean something else – yet another place where Islamic scholars say the text in the Quran must be wrong, though a small wrong this time. Noah must mean “ignorant” – “If you think us ignorant now, we think you ignorant who do not accept our story” to make a longer quotation short (Zamakhshari, Baghawi). Honestly it may be enough confusing to understand unclear text, but one also has to “mend” clear text Islam does not like. Allah really is clumsy when he is speaking.

Another point: Muhammad ridiculed lots of non-Muslims. ######These arguments then should be one more indication for that Muhammad was no real prophet.

056 11/54b: "I (Hud*) call Allah to witness - - -". No value unless Allah exists - and what the value is if he in case is from the dark forces, is uncertain. (Though he in that case may bear witness for the mistakes and even lies in the Quran).

057 11/56a: "I (Hud*) put my trust in Allah - - -". A bit risky as long as not even his existence is proved - not to mention if he exists, but belongs to the dark forces, something too many facts may point at, if he is not pure fiction.

058 11/56e: "Verily, it is my (Hud's*) Lord (Allah*) that is on the straight Path". Not if he follows the Quran - too much is wrong and crooked in that book. It definitely is no proved verity/truth.

059 11/57b: "For my (Hud's*) Lord (Allah*) - - - watch over all things". See 2/233h above.

060 11/59d: "- - - (the 'Ad people*) disobeyed His (Allah's*) Prophets - - -". When you are making up stories, it is difficult to remember all details and not stumble or make a slip here and there. According to Islam Hud was the first prophet in Arabia - he clearly was before Moses, because Moses is said to talk about him as an earlier prophet. But when Hud was the first and only (claimed) prophet the 'Ad people ever had, how come that they then disobeyed Allah's prophets (plural)? A small, but revealing mistake - revealing because it often is just this kind of small slips which uncovers the deceiver and the swindler.

Another question: If the 'Ad tribe ever existed, did they - and thus Hud - exist so early that Moses could talk about them = 2000+ years before Muhammad (really they must have lived around the time of Abraham - the youngest, Shu'ayb, lived some 4 generations after Lot/Lut). From where did Muhammad get information about him? As the Quran and all its mistakes are from no god - no god delivers that kind of quality - Islam's claim that he got it from a god, does not hold water, and there is no known source of information neither about Hud nor about the other claimed Arab prophets, Shu'yab and Salih.

061 11/61h: "- - - my (Salih*) Lord is (always) near, ready to answer". The ironic fact is that there nowhere and at no time is registered a proved answer from Allah - or any other proved contact. Lots of claims, but no proved case.

062 11/62d: "But we (the Thamuds*) are really in suspicious (disquietening) doubt as to that (Islam*) which you (Salih*) invitest us". May be they had good reason for that doubt: According to Islam the prophets - included Salih - had a book similar to the Quran, likely with as many mistakes, etc. Besides: Neither science nor Islam has been able to find proofs for a religion like Islam, a book similar to the Quran, or a god like Allah from before 610 AD (when Muhammad started his mission and proselyting), and if the Thamud ever existed, it according to the Quran was at least 1ooo and likely 2oooyears earlier - at least.

063 11/63c: "- - - who then can help me (Salih*) against Allah - - -". Everybody if he does not exist - and nothing at all is ever proved about his existence.

064 11/84e: "- - - ye (the Madyan people*) have no other god but Him (Allah*)". See 2/55a and 2/272b above.

065 11/88a: "- - - a Clear (sign) from my (Shu'ayb's*) Lord (Allah*) - - -". There nowhere in the Quran or other places is one single sign clearly from Allah - and with the possible exception of the "signs" borrowed from the Bible no unmistakable signs for a monotheistic god at all (but the Bible in case indicates Yahweh, not Allah - the teachings are too different to be from the same god, in spite of the Quran's never documented claims).

066 11/88b: "- - - my (Shu'ayb's*) success - - - can only come from Allah". Shu'ayb did not succeed. Does this indicate that Allah was not powerful or did not exist?

067 11/88c: "In Him (Allah*) I (Shu'ayb*) trust - - -". Risky as long as the trustworthiness is not proved. In all other aspects of life blind belief or relying on glossy words is the most sure way to be cheated - a fact which should be remembered when it comes to so serious questions as Hell contra Heaven. If you just accepts your father's or neighbor’s words for something they never have checked, is reality or truth, then good luck - you deserve what future you get, in this and in a possible next life.

068 11/92a: "But, verily, my (Shu'ayb's*) Lord (Allah*) encompasseth on all sides all that ye do!" We are back to the old fact: This only can be true if Allah exists (but in this case it may be true even if Allah belongs to the dark forces). It definitely is no proved verity/truth.

069 11/120a: "All that We (Allah*) relate to thee (Muhammad/Muslims*) of stories about the prophets - - -". Are the stories from Allah? - or from legends, etc.? May be added some to make them fit Muhammad's situation and teachings? No god would need to use made up stories, legends and fairy tales pretended to be the truth as basis for his holy book.

070 11/120b: "All that We (Allah*) relate to thee (Muhammad/Muslims*) of stories about the prophets - with it We make firm thy heart - - -". Nearly all the prophets the Quran tells about, met the same problems like Muhammad up to the time when the surah was published (this surah is from 621 AD) - reassuring to know for his followers: Muhammad was a normal prophet with normal difficulties, and his opponents would be punished.

071 12/7b: "Verily, in Joseph and his brethren are Signs (or Symbols) for Seekers (after Truth)". But what does it symbolize if the god was Yahweh like the Bible says, and not Allah?

072 12/67e: "- - - in Him (here intended to be Allah*) I (Jacob*) put my trust - - -". Risky if he does not exist, or if he belongs to the dark forces and just have cheated people into a false religion.

073 12/109a: “Nor did We (Allah*) send before thee (Muhammad*) (as Messengers) any but men - - -.” But this is clearly contradicted by:

  1. 3/42: “Behold the angels (plural*) said (when they came to tell Mary she was going to have the baby Jesus*)”.
  2. 6/130: “O ye assembly of Jinns and men! Came there not unto you messengers (from Us, Allah*) from amongst you - - -.” A rhetoric question demanding the answer “yes” – yes, there came Jinn messengers from Allah to the Jinns, and human messenger from Allah to the humans according to the Quran.
  3. 11/69: “There came Our (Allah’s*) Messengers to Abraham - - -“. It is clear from the following verses that these messengers were angels.
  4. 11/77: “When Our (Allah’s*) Messengers (it is clear from the text they were angles – they f. ex ate no food*) came to Lut (Lot*) - - -.”
  5. 11/81: “(The Messengers (angels from Allah*)) said: O Lut (Lot*)! We are Messengers from thy Lord!”
  6. 19/17b: “- - - We (Allah*) sent to her our angel (singular – to tell Mary she was going to have the baby Jesus*), and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.”
  7. 19/19: “He (the angel*) said: ‘Nay, I am only a messenger from thy (Mary’s*) Lord - - -“.
  8. 22//75: “Allah chooses Messengers from both angels and from men - - -“.

Well, 3/42 - 6/130 - 11/69 – 11/77 – 11/81– 19/17b – 19/19 – 22/75 all say that not all were men. A nice little contradiction to 12/109 – 16/43 – 21/7 – 25/20 which all says all messengers were men.

(8 contradictions).

074 13/32a: “Mocked were (many) Prophets before thee (Muhammad*): but I granted respite to the Unbelievers, and finally I punished them - - -”. Know, O Muslims, that Muhammad is mighty, even if he is mocked and opposed. The only reason why Allah does not punish them, is that for some reason in his unfathomable Plan he wants to wait for some time – but then they will be seriously punished!! And also earlier prophets were mocked, so Muhammad is a normal prophet!

No further comments.

075 13/38a: "We (Allah*) did send Messengers before thee (Muhammad*) - - -". According to Hadiths there have been 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) (and perhaps more) prophets before Muhammad - - - but with the exception of a few in Israel (from Yahweh) not one single has left one single trace of any kind anywhere in the world. Believe it if you want.

##076 13/39b: “- - - with Him (Allah*) is the Mother of the Book (the presumed original book from which the Quran - AND THE CLAIMED BOOKS OF ALL THE EARLIER PROPHETS/MESSENGERS (INCLUDED CLAIMED PROPHETS AND MESSENGERS FROM BEFORE MAN LEARNT HOW TO READ) - is said to be an exact copy*)“. Mere humans like us think it is unlikely in the extreme that an omnipotent and omniscient god has a book awash with lots of mistakes, contradictions, logically invalid claims, etc. as a revered Mother Book in his Heaven. There also are a lot of problems to explain, if it was made by the god a long time ago - not to mention if it is an unmade book that has existed forever, like many Muslims insists:

  1. If the book is that old and existed before man, why did the god have to send down claimed imperfect books - Torah, OT, NT? NB: Science and Islam both have shown they are not falsified like Muslims claim (like normal for Islam without documentation), and this shows that they in case was sent down like they are now.
  2. How to explain that in some verses it is Muhammad that is speaking?
  3. How to explain that in one verse angels are speaking, if the book is from before they were created?
  4. How to explain that the god sometimes has to change his message – erase it in the Mother Book and write something new? - and did he really get everything right in the book this time? Especially if he is copying the Mother Book he ought to get it right at once?
  5. How could he change the messages, if it was all written a long time ago - or always existed - in a Mother Book he copied? Erasing something there and writing over?
  6. How come that so many verses are answers or comments to things which happened in Mecca and Medina to Muhammad and during the life of Muhammad? - Muhammad f.x. quarreled with his wives, and Allah sent down surahs to explain that Muhammad as always was right - and like always a little bit too late to avert problem, but relevant to his needs just then? (Remember that if man has freedom of choice, full omniscience and thus also full clairvoyance is impossible - admitted even by Islam, except that they say it must be true all the same because Allah says so in the Quran (!!))
  7. How to explain that it (the Quran) could have been written eons ago, if Allah has given the humans a certain amount of free will? - human acts will upset the texts in chaotic ways. (Predestination and human free will are 100% incompatible and 100% impossible to combine - as man always can change his mind once more, making it impossible for the god to know for sure what really will happen, until it happens).
  8. Islam says texts had to be changed a little over time, because times changes - therefore new holy books. But the 300 last year’s time has changed more than from Adam till 1700 AD. Why are no prophets and no holy book necessary? (Also see 13/38d above). And how was the text in the Mother Book changed to fit new times.
  9. If the “mother book” is eons old, why then is nearly the all talk to Muhammad, a little to a few others, and nothing to the other 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) (the number according to Hadiths) prophets? The first prophets - when everything was new – after all needed most information and help.
  10. If "the Mother of the Book" is for all the world, why then are all background stuff from Arabia or its nearest neighbors? - some of it even difficult to fully understand if one does not know some about Arabia.

077 14/1g: "- - - by the leave of their (Muslims'*) Lord (Allah*) - - -". We quote YA1870: "It is insisted that every Prophet speaks not from himself but from Allah". Except for that the Bible tells it was Yahweh, this may be correct - but only for real prophets. For false prophets this perhaps rule is not valid. Muhammad was no real prophet - he had not the gift of being able to make prophesies, not to mention the fact that there was no god behind his claimed holy book and all its mistakes - and might have been a false one (all the errors, etc. in the Quran indicates this - in addition to his inability to "see the unseen" which indicates the same. Actually "proves" is the correct word.)

078 14/11e: "It is not for us (claimed earlier prophets*) to bring an authority except as Allah permits". Muhammad never was able to prove one atom of his central claims. Here in his tale the situation was the same for claimed former prophets = Muhammad's inability to prove anything was normal for prophets - at least this is Muhammad's not proved claim. Also see 9/98b above. But here he keeps an opening open: If Allah will. Which explains why some Jewish prophets included Jesus and even f.x. Paul made miracles - Allah did it.

079 14/37a: "- - - I (Abraham*) have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley without cultivation - - -". It here is referred to Muhammad’s never documented claim that Ishmael - Abraham's son out of wedlock with the slave girl Hagar - settled in Mecca (which did not exist then, but is situated in a dry, quite narrow desert valley)". This is directly contradicted by the Bible, which clearly states that Ishmael and his descendants settled near the border of Egypt some place north of the Red Sea (1. Mos.25/18: "His (Ishmaels*) descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt - - -"). And NB: This was written down at least 1ooo years before there was any reason for the writers not to give correct information. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words, like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

Another fact is that there lived tens of thousands of people in Arabia at the time of Abraham. Even if Abraham and Ishmael had settled in Arabia, they had made up less than one ten-thousandths of the "Arab forefather" - and in addition this less than 0.01% was much diluted by f.x. a large import of slave women from f.x. Africa (2/3 of the slaves imported to Muslim areas were women and children for the harems, and only 1/3 men. Slaves imported to the Americas were 2/3 men for work and only 1/3 women and children - also this 1/3 mainly for work, though plenty of exceptions happened.)

But to claim to descend from Abraham gave both Muhammad and his new religion weight. Such things have been done many a time through history.

Here we include a small, but essential piece of information. The dromedary was domesticated sometime between around 2ooo BC and 3500 BC one believe - the exact time is not known (the very first proved case of domesticated dromedary/camel in the Middle East is from Qasr Ibrim in Lower Nubia (east Africa) around 740 BC) - and likely in the coastal area of South Arabia - perhaps in Oman. Abraham according to science lived - if he was a real person - around 2ooo-1800 BC (and far from South Arabia).

But today - 27. Dec. 2012 - we discovered a small fact we have not been aware of - small, but essential and revealing in this case: THE DROMEARY - THE ARAB CAMEL - DID NOT COME INTO WIDE USE UNTIL AROUND 1OOO-900 BC (around the time of King Solomon)! And it was not used in the north until the Assyrians started trade south to Arabia around 800 BC. This also may explain why one has found no sure indication for domesticated camels older than ca. 740 BC. And f.x. the first time camels are known to be used in battle, was between Cyrus the Great who used camels against king Kroisos (Croesus) of Lydia in 547 BC, AND THEN TRANSPORT DROMEDARIES, NOT RIDING ONES WERE USED. (Horses not used to camels were frightened by them, and this made problems for the cavalry of Croesus.) This means that as late as in 547 BC - some 1300 years after Abraham - riding camels were not widely enough used to be a factor in daily life (if they had been, riding dromedaries had been used by Cyrus instead). Camels are mentioned in the Books of Moses, too, but this is reckoned by science to be one of the proofs for that those books are written long after Moses.

This means that Abraham did not have camels, and definitely not riding camels. Which makes his claimed trip with his animals to the lonesome, waterless and empty desert valley where Mecca later grew up, physically impossible, his claimed building of the big Kabah hundreds of miles and more in kilometers from home, even more meaningless as he could not go back and forth between his home and his temple, and his claimed visits there later as hopeless a Muslim claim as his first claimed trip.

THIS MEANS HE NEVER LEFT HAGAR AND ISHMAEL IN THAT VALLEY, THAT HE NEVER BUILT THE KABAH, AND THAT HE NEVER VISITED THE PLACE LATER,TOO. We have said the same before, but without the camel/dromedary Muhammad's claims about Abraham going to that dry desert valley to leave Hagar and Ishmael, and later to build the Kabah and then go back and forth several times, move from extremely improbable to physically impossible.

But to claim to descend from Abraham gave both Muhammad and his new religion weight. Such things have been done many a time through history.

080 14/47a: "Never think that Allah would fail His messengers in His promise - - -". That will highly depend on if Allah exists, if he is behind the Quran, and if the Quran on top of this tells the full truth and only the truth. (For some reason or other Islam and its Muslims seldom claim that Islam is the religion of honesty.) But good propaganda for stiffening up the power of Muhammad.

081 15/10a: "We (Allah*) did send Messengers before thee (Muhammad*) - - -". The Quran claims all people to all times have been sent prophets teaching Islam - the number 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) is mentioned (not in the Quran). Neither science nor Islam has found one single trace from them, except the old ones from the Bible - and they spoke about Yahweh, and about a religion too different from Islam to be from the same god.

082 16/36a: “For We (Allah*) assuredly sent amongst every people a Messenger.” Contradictions:

  1. 28/46: “Yet (art thou (Muhammad*) sent) as a Mercy from thy Lord (according to the Quran = Allah*) to give warning to a people to whom no warner (= prophet, messenger*) had come before - - -.” No messenger had they had, even though “every people” had had. A contradiction.
  2. 32/3: “Nay, it is the Truth from thy (Muhammad’s*) Lord (Allah*), that thou mayest admonish to a people to whom no warner has come before thee - - -.”
  3. 34/44: “But We (Allah*) had not given them (Arabs”*) Books which they could study, nor sent messengers to them before thee (Muhammad*) - - -.”
  4. 36/6: “In order that thou (Muhammad*) mayest admonish a people (the Arabs*) whose fathers had received no admonition - - -.”

Muhammad's claim here also is contradicted by reality: Neither science nor Islam has been able to find one single trace of a prophet or messenger preaching Islam before 610 AD (Muhammad and Islam claim the old Jewish prophets, included Jesus, did so, but this they will have to prove - not claim, but prove - to be believed).

Which verse(s) is/are wrong? (Also remember that the Quran many places mention at least 3 prophets (Hud, Shu'ayb and Salih + perhaps - perhaps - Moses) who worked in Arabia long before Muhammad. Well, Moses may have been in Sudan and not in Arabia - one does not know where his Midian lay (though as Mt. Hebron and Mt. Sinai are mentioned, it extremely likely lay in Sinai, and not in Arabia).)

(4 contradictions or more).

##083 16/36c: “For We (Allah*) assuredly sent amongst every people a Messenger, (with the command), 'Serve Allah, and eschew Evil’: - - -”. The Quran insists that every people everywhere and every time throughout the history of man has been sent prophets for Allah. The Hadiths mention that through the times there have been 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) prophets or more, and even that number may be just an expression for innumerably many. But nowhere in the world - except among the Jews (and in a way in Egypt under pharaoh Akn-Aton, who only accepted the sun as god - not Allah - and the Zoroastrians in Persia) - at any time and under no circumstances, nowhere there are traces of prophets preaching monotheism before year one AD (Jesus). Not in history, not in folklore, not in traditions, not in history, not in art, not in literature, not in archaeology, not any place - not even in fairy tales or legends. Especially when you compare this to the results of just two prophets: Jesus and Muhammad, it is not possible that 124ooo or more prophets through the times have left not a single trace. Nothing found by science, and nothing found even by Islam. This statement about all the prophets for Allah simply is not true. Actually the sum of facts around this claim about 124ooo prophets represents a 100% proof of mathematical strength for that the claim is wrong.

#####084 16/43a: “And before thee (Muhammad*) also the Messengers We (Allah*) sent - - -". There is an interesting, even if well known comment to this in A: "The Message of the Quran" (A16/44 - no. 16/45 in the 2008 English edition): "- - - it connects with the statement enunciated in verse 38 (see 16/36b and its comment*) to the effect that Allah's apostles have appeared, at one time or another, within every community (the Arab word used here "ummah", in reality means "community", but may also mean "civilization" or "people" or "times" - Asad himself used "community", the same in his Swedish comments, but in the later English one they have "corrected" it to the wider "civilization". (There are some "corrections" in the 2008 English edition - all we have found are in conservative direction or to be more correct compared to science. They have dropped the main meaning of the word "ummah" (community) entirely - perhaps because such a claim too obviously is wrong*)), and that, consequently, no substantial human group has ever been left without divine guidance - - -". And YA in his "The Meaning of the Holy Quran" (YA2090): "In all ages and among all Peoples ("ummah") Allah sent His Messengers to teach the Truth (the Quran*) - - -". Believe it if you want. But no-one, included Islam, has ever found one single reliable trace from any of all those claimed prophets (except the Jewish), who according to Islam have worked everywhere and throughout all times. No further comments - and none necessary. The claims are wrong unless Islam proves the opposite.

085 16/43b: “And before thee (Muhammad*) also the Messengers We (Allah*) sent were but men - - -“. This is contradicted by verses in the Quran telling that angels were sent as messengers (beware: the Quran here says Messengers, not Prophets) to at least Abraham, Lot, and Mary, and that Jinns were sent as messengers to Jinns, (only men 12/109 - 21/7 - 25/20).

  1. 3/42: “Behold the angels (plural*) said (when they came to tell Mary she was going to have the baby Jesus*)”.
  2. 6/130: “O ye assembly of Jinns and men! Came there not unto you messengers (from Us, Allah*) from amongst you - - -.” A rhetoric question demanding the answer “yes” – yes, there came Jinn messengers from Allah to the Jinns, and human messenger from Allah to the humans.
  3. 11/69: “There came Our (Allah’s*) Messengers to Abraham - - -“. It is clear from the following verses that these messengers were angels.
  4. 11/77: When Our (Allah's*) messengers came to Lut (Lot*) - - -". The same angels who visited Abraham".
  5. Also the messengers to Mary were angels, according to both the Bible and the Quran.

At least 4 contradictions.

In addition there are the contradictions to the Bible if Islam claims Yahweh = Allah. Also there are angels and there is the Holy Spirit all bringing messages + at least 6 female prophets. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

086 16/63b: "- - - We (Allah*) (also) sent (Our Messengers) to Peoples before thee (Muhammad*) - - -". The Quran claims that all people everywhere and to all times have got prophets from Allah teaching Islam - the number 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years). No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) prophets through the times is often mentioned. Neither science nor Islam has ever found the slightest trace from them older than 610 AD (when Muhammad started his teachings), except among the Jews and Christians, and that was about Yahweh, not Allah.(And the Zoroastrians, but also there nothing about Allah).

087 17/1d: “- - - the Sacred Mosque - - -". Kabah in Mecca. But even how sacred it is, neither Kabah nor Mecca is mentioned anywhere in the Bible. AND NOT ONE OF THE Biblical PROPHETS, INCLUDED JESUS, EVER MENTIONED EVEN A WISH FOR VISITIONG THIS CLAIMED MOST HOLY PLACE ON EARTH - NOT EVEN A WISH FOR A HAJJ.

088 17/3e: "Verily he (Noah*) was a devotee most grateful". He had to be - he lost one of his 3 sons and did not blame Allah. (Not so in the Bible - contradiction. And as it is not from the Bible, and as the Quran is not from a god - too much is wrong - from where did Muhammad get this piece of information?)

But the Quran's stories about Noah definitely are no proved verity/truth.

089 17/77a: “(This was Our (Allah’s*)) way with the messengers We sent before thee (Muhammad*) - - -". Wrong. None of the known prophets had an incident leading up to a possible punishment like the "satanic Verses" had merited if Allah had been real - not even the claimed prophets known only from the Quran.

090 17/77b: “(This was Our (Allah’s*)) way with the messengers We sent before thee (Muhammad*), thou wilt find no change in Our ways.” Wrong. There is so much difference between especially NT and the Quran, that it is not the same religion at all. F.x. Jesus was for peace, Muhammad for war. And science has clearly showed that the Bible is not falsified – Islam in case will have to prove it, and after 1400 years of thorough searching they have found not one single proof, only lose claims. (Guess if they had told the world about it if they really had found a proof!! The lack of such a proof, is an even better proof than science has produced for that the Bible is not falsified.)

091 18/98d: "- - - the promise of my (Alexander's*) Lord (here wrongly indicated Allah*) is true". Never since long before Alexander the Great and till today there has been one single proved case of a promise from Allah which has come true. Islam will have to prove this claim to be believed.

092 19/58b: "- - - those (Jewish prophets*) whom We (Allah*) guided - - -". As Allah and Yahweh is not the same god - too much is different of the fundamental elements of the teachings - Allah was not involved with the Jewish prophets according to the Bible.

093 19/58f: "- - - they (the old Jewish prophets*) would fall down in prostration (indicated to Allah*) and tears". As Allah had no connections to the Jewish prophets, also this part of the claim is untrue according to the Bible.

094 21/7a: “Before thee (Muhammad*), also, the messengers We (Allah*) sent were but men - - -. Well: In that case these are wrong – or contradictions:

  1. 3/42: “Behold the angels (plural*) said (when they came to tell her she was going to have the baby Jesus*)”.
  2. 6/130: “O ye assembly of Jinns and men! Came there not unto you messengers (from Us, Allah*) from amongst you - - -.” A rhetoric question demanding the answer “yes” – yes, there came Jinn messengers from Allah to the Jinns, and human messenger from Allah to the humans.
  3. 11/69: “There came Our (Allah’s*) Messengers to Abraham - - -“. It is clear from the following verses that these messengers were angels.
  4. 11/77: “When Our (Allah’s*) Messengers (it is clear from the text they were angles – they f.x. ate no food*) came to Lut (Lot*) - - -.”
  5. 11/81: “(The Messengers (angels from Allah*)) said: O Lut (Lot*)! We are Messengers from thy Lord!”
  6. 19/17b: “- - - We (Allah*) sent to her our angel (singular – to tell her she was going to have the baby Jesus*), and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.”
  7. 19/19: “He (the angel*) said: ‘Nay, I am only a messenger from thy (Mary’s*) Lord - - -“.
  8. 22//75: “Allah chooses Messengers from both angels and from men - - -“.
  9. As Muhammad claimed Yahweh and Allah were the same god, we also add that according to the Bible, Yahweh sent at least 6 female prophets - see just below.

Well, 3/42 - 6/130 - 11/69 – 11/77 – 11/81– 19/17b – 19/19 – 22/75 all say that not all were men. Some nice little contradictions to 12/109 – 16/43 – 21/7 – 25/20 which all say all messengers were men.

(8 contradictions).

Contradicted also by the Bible which tells there also were female prophets (the Bible do not use "messenger" as a title - every one of them were "prophets" or in the old time "seers" (1. Sam. 9/9)), like Miriam (the sister of Moses), Huldah (2. Chr. 34/22), Deborah (Judges 4/4), Noadiah (Neh. 6/14), unnamed one (Is. 8/3), and Anna (Luke2/36). One more difference between Yahweh and Allah. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

095 21/9c: “- - - We (Allah*) destroyed those who transgressed bounds (did not obey the teachings of his prophets*)”. Remember that according to Hadith there had been at least 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) prophets before Muhammad, and hardly a trace of monotheism from old times except the Jews and later the Christians. Allah must have “destroyed” an uncountable number of people. Poor Yahweh - he is in kindergarten in this competition of killing and blood.

096 21/25a: "Not one messenger did We (Allah*) send before thee (Muhammad*) without the inspiration - - -". As the Quran (wrongly) claims also the Biblical prophets were sent by Allah, this is wrong, as the Bible clearly says they got their messages by direct contact, visions, or dreams (4. Mos. 12/6-8). Inspiration is nowhere in the Bible mentioned as a means for this. But Muhammad often claimed also the old prophets got information by inspiration, in order to legitimize his own claim that he got his information that way, and thus legitimize his claim that he was a normal prophet.

097 21/73g: "- - - and they (the prophets of the old*) constantly served us (Allah*) (and Us only)". At least the prophets of the Bible - the real ones - served Yahweh, not Allah - and at least for the youngest ones this is likely to be documented facts, as we now are approaching the times of written history, not only something which is said in the Bible (but in the Bible false prophets are mentioned several times - some of them may have served other gods).

098 22/26aa: “Behold, We (Allah) gave the site, to Abraham, of the (sacred) House - - -”. Abraham never visited Mecca. See 2/127a. It is a story made up to give Muhammad’s teaching more credence, and make it more interesting among Arabs, though perhaps partly on basis old folk tales. (Islam claims Abraham from long before Muhammad was reckoned to be the forefather of the Arabs via his son Ishmael. But we have seen claims that even this is made up by Muhammad. We have not been able to find out what is the truth here (that Ishmael is one of very many forefathers of the Arabs, is very unlikely as his descendants according to the only perhaps reliable source about this - the Bible - tells his descendants settled down in the area to the east of where the Suez Canal now runs, but not totally impossible), but if Muhammad made up also this, it is one more nail in the casket.

May be as essential: Abraham lived around the time when the first Arabian camel - dromedary - was domesticated, but that happened in south-east Arabia (perhaps where you today find Yemen) and perhaps 1200 miles/2ooo km of forbidding terrain away. It took until around 800-700 AD before the camel became known in Abraham's part of Asia at least 1ooo years later (science says some 1200 years). Without camels wit also was physically impossible for Abraham and his family to go back and forth between south Israel and Mecca when they wanted to visit their temple/mosque. This in addition to the stupidity of building his temple that far off - - - and in addition to that no nomad had the know-how of building a big stone temple.

We may add that science with their careful words say: "It is practically sure Abraham never visited Mecca".

099 22/26b: “Behold, We (Allah) gave the site, to Abraham, of the (sacred) House - - -”. Mecca lies some 750 miles (some 1200 km) from where Abraham normally lived - much of the distance hot, forbidding and rough Arab Desert. The Quran tells he built a big mosque in an empty, dry narrow desert valley, for himself and his family - in the valley where Mecca grew up many centuries later. The Quran also claims Abraham was a good Muslim - and Muslims shall visit their mosques at least every Friday. 750 miles/1200 km and back through forbidding terrain every Friday? - even just now and then?

Here we include a small, but essential piece of information. The dromedary was domesticated sometime between around 2ooo BC and 3500 BC - the exact time is not known (the very first proved case of domesticated dromedary/camel in the Middle East is from Qasr Ibrim in Lower Nubia (east Africa) around 740 BC) - and likely in the coastal area of South Arabia (Oman?). Abraham according to science lived - if he was a real person - around 2ooo-1800 BC (and far from South Arabia). But today - 27. Dec. 2012 - we discovered a small fact we have not been aware of - small, but essential and revealing in this case: THE DROMEARY - THE ARAB CAMEL - DID NOT COME INTO WIDE USE UNTIL AROUND 1OOO-900 BC (around the time of King Solomon)! A piece of information also backed up by the fact that the oldest know sure trace from a domesticated camel is from around 740 BC. And f.x. the first time camels are known to be used in battle, was between Cyrus the Great, who used camels against king Kroisos (Croesus) of Lydia in 547 BC, AND THEN TRANSPORT DROMEDARIES, NOT RIDING ONES WERE USED. (Horses not used to camels were frightened by them, and this made problems for the cavalry of Croesus.) This means that as late as in 547 BC - some 1300 years after Abraham - riding camels were not widely enough used to be a factor in daily life (if they had been, riding dromedaries had been used by Cyrus instead). Camels are mentioned in the Books of Moses, too, but this is reckoned by science to be one of the proofs for that those books are written long after Moses.

This means that Abraham did not have camels, and definitely not riding camels. Which makes his claimed trip with his animals to the lonesome, waterless and empty desert valley where Mecca later grew up, physically impossible, his claimed building of the big Kabah hundreds of miles and more in kilometers from home, even more meaningless as he could not go back and forth between his home and his temple, and his claimed visits there later as hopeless a Muslim claim, as his first claimed trip.

THIS MEANS HE NEVER LEFT HAGAR AND ISHMAEL IN THAT VALLEY, THAT HE NEVER BUILT THE KABAH, AND THAT HE NEVER VISITED THE PLACE LATER,TOO. We have said the same before, but without the camel/dromedary Muhammad's claims about Abraham going to that dry desert valley to leave Hagar and Ishmael, and later to build the Kabah, move from extremely improbable to physically impossible.

Well, believe the tale if you are able to.

100 22/75a: “Allah chooses Messengers from angles and from men - - -.” But not from Jinns? Contradicted by:

  1. 6/130: “O ye assembly of Jinns and men! Came there not unto you messengers from amongst you - - -?” A rhetoric question shoving there came messengers from men to men, and from Jinns to Jinns. Not only from angels and men.

101 23/23a: "(Further We (Allah*) sent a long line of prophets for your (Muhammad’s*) instruction)". The problem is that Muhammad does not fit in the long line of Jewish prophets. To do that, his teachings, etc. would have had to build on the earlier prophets' teachings and messages from Yahweh, which it to a far too large degree does not do - and Muhammad's claim that the reason is that the Bible is falsified, is proved wrong both by science and by Islam. Besides many of the divergences are so fundamental that they could not have been explained with some falsifications anyhow. Muhammad and his teaching simply differ too much from the old Jewish prophets - he does not fit into that line. To compare f.x. him and Jesus (the last one before Muhammad) hardly is possible.

102 23/44b: "- - - every time there came to a people their messenger, they accused him of falsehood - - -". Not correct according to the Bible - some were accepted. But a convenient way for Muhammad to "explain" away all the disbelievers and all the problems to his followers - he claimed his problems were normal for all prophets. (Even the Quran contradicts this - f.x. Solomon was not accused of falsehood, and in the Quran Solomon is a prophet).

103 23/52b: "- - - verily, this Brotherhood of yours (prophets'*) is a single Brotherhood - - -". Wrong. One may say that the prophets from the Bible, included Jesus and perhaps his disciples and Paul belonged to a brotherhood - clearly the same god, clearly the same teaching - except that "the New Covenant" represented more mildness from Yahweh - the words and teachings and foretelling corresponded to each other, etc., all in the same line of traditions. Muhammad was totally outside that line on every essential point - different god, different teaching, fundamentally different religion, different traditions, outside the foretelling of the older prophets (not only himself, but also what he said and told), very different code of moral, no empathy - even a very different paradise.

In spite of Muhammad's repeated claims: He did not belong in the same line of prophets as the Biblical ones. No matter whether he is claimed to be a real or a false prophet, his teachings and his god are too different from that of the Biblical prophets - he is not in that line of prophets. It is not a single brotherhood.

104 23/110b: In this verse Muhammad is "proving" that the reception he - a parallel to the claimed treatment to other prophets (to make Muhammad look just like normal prophets) got from opponents, will be strongly revenged by Allah in the next life - and that he himself was right.

105 25/20a: “And the messengers whom We (Allah*) sent before thee, were all (men) - - -.”

Well: In that case these are wrong – or contradictions:

  1. 3/42: “Behold the angels (plural*) said (when they came to tell Mary she was going to have the baby Jesus*)”.
  2. 6/130: “O ye assembly of Jinns and men! Came there not unto you messengers (from Us, Allah*) from amongst you - - -.” A rhetoric question demanding the answer “yes” – yes, there came Jinn messengers from Allah to the Jinns, and human messenger from Allah to the humans.
  3. 11/69: “There came Our (Allah’s*) Messengers to Abraham - - -“. It is clear from the following verses that these messengers were angels.
  4. 11/77: “When Our (Allah’s*) Messengers (it is clear from the text they were angles – they f. ex ate no food*) came to Lut (Lot*) - - -.”
  5. 11/81: “(The Messengers (angels from Allah*)) said: O Lut (Lot*)! We are Messengers from thy Lord!”
  6. 19/17b: “- - - We (Allah*) sent to her our angel (singular – to tell Mary she was going to have the baby Jesus*), and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.”
  7. 19/19: “He (the angel*) said: ‘Nay, I am only a messenger from thy (Mary’s*) Lord - - -“.
  8. 22//75: “Allah chooses Messengers from both angels and from men - - -“.
  9. There also is the fact that some of the prophets in the Bible (the Bible does not use the title messenger - all are named prophets or seers) were not men but women, f.x. Miriam (sister of Moses - 2.Mos. 15/20), and Huldah (2. Chr. 34/22). One more difference between the Bible and the Quran.

Well, 3/42 - 6/130 - 11/69 – 11/77 – 11/81– 19/17b – 19/19 – 22/75 all say that not all were men. A nice little contradiction to 12/109 – 16/43 – 21/7 – 25/20 which all says all messengers were men.

(8 - 9 contradictions).

Some more details about female prophets (the Bible do not use "messenger" as a title - every one of them were "prophets" or in the old time "seers" (1. Sam. 9/9)), like Miriam (the sister of Moses), Huldah (2. Chr. 34/22), Deborah (Judges 4/4), Noadiah (Neh. 6/14), unnamed one (Is. 8/3), and Anna (Luke2/36). One more difference between Yahweh and Allah. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

106 25/35a: “- - - We sent Moses the Book - - -”. Wrong. The Torah (containing those books) was written some hundreds years later according to science - may be as much as 400 - 800 years later. (Moses got the 10 commandments in writing + the law verbally and wrote it down himself later, according to the Bible - this sometimes was called "The Book of Covenance". The law later became part of the Books of Moses.) Besides according to the Bible Moses' god was Yahweh, not Allah.

107 29/14a: "We (Allah*) (once) sent Noah - - -". According to the Bible, the god of Noah was Yahweh. We may add that the story in the Quran about Noah, roughly is similar to the one in the Bible. But many details are different or added. As the Quran with all its errors and weaknesses is from no god, so that he cannot have got those details that way (in spite of strong claims), it is an open question from where Muhammad got them.

*108 28/3a: “We (Allah*) rehearse to thee (Muhammad/Muslims*) some of the story of Moses and Pharaoh in Truth - - -”. The story about Moses contradicts and differs not a little from the one told in the Bible - which for this part is more than 1000 years nearer in time to what (may be) happened - and with stronger traditions concerning Moses. It is a question, which one is most reliable. In any case: Both have the death of Pharaoh Ramses II wrong (but when it comes to the Bible it is possible to explain this - not so with the Quran, which is told by Allah (or even has existed since eternity and is never made), as Allah is omniscient and omniscient gods makes no mistakes (the human narrator of the Bible may have mixed Ramses II with one of his 67(?) sons or one of his generals - for Allah such a mistake is impossible)).

Moses and his brother Aaron came to Pharaoh Ramses II (one of the really strong and mighty pharaohs in the history of Egypt - may be the mightiest ever). A lot is known about Ramses II, among other things that he did not drown. Because of this you often meet Muslims claiming this happened earlier and under more unknown pharaohs which we do not know from what they died, but science is not in real doubt, except that a few historians believe it perhaps happened a few years later. Also the years and other information does not add up if it happened much earlier.

##There is at least one more historical fact connected to this story which is wrong in the Quran: The Quran tells that Allah destroyed all the large, magnificent buildings in Egypt (7/137). There is no kind of scientific indication for that this can be correct - no trace from such a catastrophe at that time neither in archeology nor in literature nor even in folklore. And remember: No omniscient god makes mistakes - then who made the Quran?

Another point: As no god ever was involved in a book of a quality like the Quran, also no god rehearsed it to Muhammad.

*109 28/59a: “Nor was thy Lord (Allah*) one to destroy a population until he had sent to its Centre a messenger - - -”. The Quran speaks about lots of prophets - in the Hadith it is mentioned 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) through the times and throughout the world. (And one impolite, but pertinent reminder: Muhammad was unable to make real prophesies – he in reality was no prophet, he only “borrowed” that big title). But with the exception of Israel and to a degree in Persia (and some rulers who did so on their own accord for political reasons + a small sect in Arabia, most likely inspired by Jews and Christians) there are no traces anywhere, any time after prophets for monotheistic religions - not in history, not in archaeology, not in literature, not in art, not in architecture - not even in folklore or fairy tales.

*Besides: MANY places were destroyed by war, famine or other catastrophes through the time without being visited by prophets for a monotheistic religion warning them first (f.x. Ache in Indonesia before the tsunami in 2004) - in spite of the Quran’s saying all such things only happen in accordance with the Plan of Allah.

The verse is wrong. And we are also not sure that such a vengeful and hard god is a good or benevolent god – when someone says or declares one thing, but demands or does something else, we always believe that the demands and the deeds are more reliable than cheap words. Similar claims in 17/15 - 17/16.

110 29/33a: "When Our (Allah's*) Messengers (angels*) came to Lut (Lot*) - - -". See 29/31a-c above.

*111 30/47b: “We (Allah*) did indeed send, before thee (Muhammad*), messengers to the (respective) peoples - - -”. The Quran tells there were sent prophets by Allah too all peoples throughout the times - the Hadith (the second main “pillar” of “knowledge” about Islam) mention 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.), and even that may even be only a symbolic number. But neither in archaeology, nor in architecture (temples or stones reused for buildings f.x.), nor in literature, nor history, nor folklore, nor even in fairy tales are there the slightest traces from those prophets. That so many prophets should leave not even a whisper of a trace - flatly no. And especially so when you see what only 2 (claimed?) prophets - Jesus and Muhammad - resulted in. It is not possible that not at least some out of 124ooo left traces.

112 33/7a: "- - - We (Allah*) took from the Prophets their Covenant - - -". Even if we omit the fact that the Bible talks about Yahweh and the Quran about Allah - 2 obviously very different gods - there still remains the fact that Yahweh did not make that kind of a covenant with his prophets like said in verses 7 and 8, for the very obvious reason that he did not need that kind of information - according to the Bible Yahweh is really omniscient for things which happens, and then why should he ask for what he already knew? One more clear difference between Yahweh and Allah. Not the same god. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

113 33/7b: "- - - We (Allah*) took from the Prophets their Covenant: as (We did) from thee (Muhammad*) - - -". There is no proof for a covenant between Allah and Muhammad - or the Muslims. A number of claims, but not one proof. Worse: The only "documentation" for his very existence is a made up - or at least from no god - book based only on the words of a man with highly dubious moral and reliability, liking power and women (not uncommon for self proclaimed "prophets".

And the covenants with the Biblical prophets were with Yahweh, not with Allah according to the Bible, and - where information about their real religion exists - also in accordance with science.

114 33/38e: "It was the practice (approved) of by Allah amongst (earlier prophets*) - - -" - - - to obey Allah". The same comment as to 33/38d just above.

Another fact: None of the Biblical prophets had a big harem. Most had just one wife, if any at all. (Remember here that in the Bible f.x. David and Solomon are not reckoned to be prophets, only kings.) ####Also none of the Biblical prophets raped women like Muhammad did.)

115 33/62b: “Such (to kill non-Muslims not living according to Islam’s laws of suppression of non-Muslims*) was the practice (approved) of Allah among the ones that lived aforetime: no change wilt thou find in the practice (approved) of Allah (now or in the future*)”. If Islam/Muslims grow strong enough some time, this is what to expect, according to their holy book. How had the world looked today, if the industrial revolution with its superior weapons, ships and economic and military superiority had happened in the Muslim area? - Islam has no moral, ethical, empathetically, ideological, or philosophical ideas against suppressing other people - on the contrary it is a religious duty. Actually Islam has no moral or ethical philosophy at all - that was decided once and for all by Muhammad, and with al Ghazali - "the greatest Muslim after Muhammad" - as the grave digger for philosophy in Islam with his book "The Incoherence of the Philosophers" in 1095 AD. (There were a few thinkers for some more time - about 100 more years - in Spain, but they got little influence on the mainstream Islam).

116 34/12a: “And to Solomon (We (Allah*) made) - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which tells Yahweh was Solomon's god, not Allah. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

117 34/34a: "Never did We (Allah*) send a warner to a population, but the wealthy ones among them said: 'We believe not in the (Message) - - -". For one thing this is wrong, there were prophets in the Bible who were believed (f.x. Samuel). But the other thing is that this hardly is information, but psychology: Mainly only poor and uneducated people accepted Muhammad the first 12-14 years (until Muhammad started to gain wealth and power), and then it was soothing for his followers to "know" this was normal for prophets (this surah is believed to be from 620 AD).

118 34/45b: "- - - My (Allah's*) messengers - - -". But f.x. Muhammad was not the messenger of a god - too much was wrong in his claimed message. If he was a messenger, then for whom?

###119 35/24j: “- - - and there never was a people, without a warner (a prophet for Allah*) having lived among them (in the past) - - -”. As said before: Neither in archaeology, nor in anthropology, nor in architecture, nor in art, nor in history, nor in literature, nor in folklore, nor in folk tales - not even in fairy tales - do we find a single trace of any teaching of monotheism before 610 AD, with two well known exceptions (Jews and Christians) and two or three less known exceptions (Pharaoh Akn-Aton, praying to the sun, a semi-Christian sect in Persia, an Arab sect around 600 AD - likely inspired by the two monotheistic religions in the area – plus the Zoroastrians after a fashion). Some places one or a few gods dominated, but no monotheism.

  1. In the Americas - absolutely nothing.
  2. In Australia - absolutely nothing.
  3. In the Pacific - absolutely nothing.
  4. In Europe - absolutely nothing except Christians and some Jews.
  5. In Africa - absolutely nothing with the exception of one single man: Pharaoh Akn-Aton - but he so definitely was not speaking about Allah. He wanted the sun for the only god. (+ Jews and Christians).
  6. In Asia - absolutely nothing, except in what we now call the Middle East: The Christians, the well known Jews and as already mentioned the Zoroastrians mainly in Persia (after a fashion) and a couple of monotheistic old sects. Of course there was Buddha, but he was/is no god, and besides he accepted that gods existed, but told they were on wrong ways not leading to nirvana - no monotheism.

124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) or more - the number is said to be symbolic, as there may have been more - prophets had to have left some traces somewhere, if the tale was true.

This statement simply is not true. If Islam still insists, they will have to produce strong proofs. “Strong statements demands strong evidence”, to quote science. And not just lose claims, invalid “signs” and “proofs”, and more lose statements like Islam normally produces - real proofs are needed.

120 36/16: "Our Lord (Allah*) doth know that we (3 claimed prophets*) have been sent on a mission to you (a city*)". Allah may know this if he exists and if he in case is a god - or even if he belongs to the dark forces.

121 37/72a: "But We (Allah*) sent aforetime, among them (earlier people*) (messengers) to admonish them - - -". Science has found not one single trace from an Islam-like religion before 610 AD. Worse: Neither has Islam - if they had found something reliable, every soul on Earth and more had been told about it. There may be some exceptions for information "borrowed" from the Bible, but that in case tells about Yahweh, not about Allah - quite another god with a fundamentally very different religion, and with a holy book which according to science is not falsified, even though this never proved claim from Muhammad, was his only possibility to save his own religion and platform of power. Even Islam has never been able to prove fraud here, even though there is used a lot of al-Taqiyya (lawful lie) in this connection (it is rather strange: Muslims know about al-Taqiyya, Kitman, etc., and that it not only can, but ought to be used to defend or forward Islam. All the same they accept nearly any claim from fellow Muslims without checking if it is true or not. To be honest: In such cases we feel that the naive ones - and one has to be very naive not to check in such cases, Muslims or not - deserved the next life they get (if there is a next life) if the Quran is a made up book (and at least it is from no god with all those mistakes, etc.), this especially if there is a benevolent, merciful one on the "other side"). No really benevolent and merciful god will accept humans who have lived according to the harsh war religion of Islam, to his Paradise. Exceptions perhaps may be done for the ones who have lived according to the surahs from Mecca only - but there hardly is anyone who has done that.

##122 37/72b: "But We (Allah*) sent aforetime, among them (earlier people*) (messengers) to admonish them - - -". We may add that Muhammad claimed that among others the old Jewish prophets preached Islam, but that later generations falsified the religion away from Islam and over to the Jewish (Mosaic) religion of his (and later) time. Like always Muhammad had no proofs for his claims. But no modern scientist within relevant sciences believes him (except some of the Muslims).

123 37/76a: “And We (Allah*) delivered him (Noah*) and his people from the Great Calamity”. Wrong – according to the Quran one of his (according to the Bible) only 3 sons drowned (not so in the Bible). Similar claim in 21/76.

124 37/76b: “And We (Allah*) delivered him (Noah*) and his people from the Great Calamity”. According to the Bible, the involved god was Yahweh, not Allah.

125 37/111: "For he (Abram/Abraham*) was one of Our (Allah's*) believing servants". It here is told Abram/Abraham was a good Muslim. The Bible disagrees. You are free to believe whatever you want. But there are no traces from Muslims until some 2500 years later.

126 37/112a: "- - - We (Allah*) gave him (Abraham*) the good news of Isaac - - -". Contradicted by the Bible which clearly states he got this message from Yahweh, not from Allah. (Isaac was Abraham's son with his wife Sarah. According to the Bible he was some 13 years younger than Ishmael (1. Mos. 16/15 - 17/1). Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

127 37/115b: "- - - We (Allah*) delivered him (Moses*) and his people from (their) Great Calamity - - -". According to the Bible, the god involved was Yahweh, not Allah.

128 37/122: "- - - they (Moses and Aaron*) were Our (Allah's*) believing Servants (= good Muslims*)". We do not think anyone knowing the Bible needs a comment here.

129 37/123-124: "So also was Elias among those sent by Us (Allah*). Behold, he said to his people, 'Will ye not fear Allah?". Many places where the Quran mistakes Yahweh for Allah, we do not bother to comment on it, as it is so obvious. But the teachings of these two claimed gods are so fundamentally different, that they are not the same - the Quran's claims here simply are not correct. As for Elias, this like said has to be Elijah in the Bible, as Baal is a central theme.

130 37/132: "For he (Elijah*) was one of Our (Allah's*) believing Servants". Contradicting the Bible to say the least of it! In the Bible Yahweh is the god of Elijah - and scientists believe that if Elijah ever lived, the Bible is right. (We are now slowly approaching times where science gets other sources of information than the Bible.)

131 37/139a: "So also was Jonah among those sent (by Us (Allah*))". According to the Bible he was sent by Yahweh, not by Allah - there is no traces of neither Allah, Islam or anything like the Quran some 700+ years BC. Neither science nor Islam has found any such traces older than 619 AD when Muhammad started his preaching.

#####132 38/23b: "This man is my brother: he has 99 ewes, and I have (but) one: yet he says, 'Commit her to my care', and is (moreover) harsh to me in speech". This is the story in the Quran. One thing is that both the judicial and the moral questions are so simple that this has nothing to do in a kings parlors for decision - not to mention risking their lives by climbing the wall around the king's palace and risking being killed by the guards. More essential here is that the story told like this, gives no reason for David to see he had been tried or for Allah to forgive anything.

A hopeless intrigue like this had not even made it into a short-story in a modern colored magazine for teen-age girls.

The quality of the Quran a proof for that it is made by a god? That claim is not even naive.

133 38/48b: "- - - Ishmael - - -". There is no indication in the Bible for that Ishmael was a prophet. He became the father of 12 tribal rulers (1. Mos. 25/16) "near the border of Egypt" (1. Mos. 25/18), but not a single indication anywhere of being a prophet. On the contrary he was outside the covenance with the god, according to the Bible.

134 40/23a: "Of old We (Allah*) sent Moses - - -". It is most likely - an understatement - it was Yahweh who sent Moses. The two gods are not the same in spite of Muhammad's claims, as the teachings fundamentally are far too different (and we remind you: Science has proved the Bible is not falsified - and Islam has proved it even stronger by never being able to document one single falsification of the tens or hundreds of thousands of falsifications which had had to be made to cover up tricking with the Bible.)

135 40/25a: "Now, when he (Moses) came to them in Truth, from Us (Allah)". (For some reason or other Islam and its Muslims seldom claim that Islam is the religion of honesty.) See 40/23a above.

136 40/28e: "My (Moses'*) Lord is Allah". Believe this if you want - most likely only Muslims are able to. But see 40/28d just above.

#138 40/78d: "It was not (possible) for any messenger to bring a Sign except by leave of Allah - - -". Is this why Muhammad never brought a sign, not to mention a proof, for Allah or for his own connection to a god? Muhammad never brought even a tiny wee bit of a corner of such a sign or proof. (Hadiths claims he did, but the Quran indirectly, but totally unmistakably proves that all those stories about miracles are made up ones - a fact Islam admits by stating that there are no miracles connected to Muhammad "except the making of the Quran".

It is no problem for f.x. a false prophet/messenger to claim he was/is bringing signs - and claim was all that Muhammad did here, as he never proved the origin of signs.

###139 41/43a: “Nothing is said to thee (Muhammad*) that was not said to the messengers before thee (Muhammad*) (f.x. to Jesus and the old Jewish prophets*) - - -.” Wrong. As both science and Islam thoroughly have proved that the Bible is not falsified – and especially strong proofs for NT (though the combination Jesus/the Qumran scrolls is an as 100% proof for OT) – it is very clear that what Muhammad claimed to have been told, often is far from what the real prophets and patriarchs had been told. And this is strengthened by the fact that it very often is very clear that Muhammad took his “Biblical” stories not from the Bible, but from religious legends (often even based on apocryphal scriptures and stories, not the Bible) which circulated in the area, and which Muhammad believed was from the Bible - - - and then later he had only one way out how to explain the errors compared to the real Bible: To claim he was right and the Bible falsified!!!. For him his religion - and platform of power - was more essential than to find out what was really the truth. As for the quotation above, it is not true that nothing was said to Muhammad that was not said to earlier (real) prophets – a fact which Islam even confirms sometimes – f.x. in the statement from Muhammad that he was the first “messenger/prophet” who had got permission from the god to steal and rob and rape, which the god according to the Quran even confirms is “god and lawful”.

To be impolite, but truthful: The Quran's claim here is rubbish.

140 42/3c: “Thus doth (He (Allah*)) send inspiration to thee (Muhammad*) as He did to those (prophets*) before thee - - -.” This is directly wrong and contradicted by the Bible - but in this case we do not accuse Muhammad of lying - he did not know the Bible and most likely just said what he wanted his audience to hear, not knowing whether it was right or wrong. For Muhammad it was essential to impress on his audience and followers that he was a normal prophet just like the old ones in the Bible. Because of that you find that a large part of the stories are told like parallels to Muhammad's life and activity - so also here; Muhammad claimed he got most of his claimed information from Allah via inspiration, and then the old prophets had to have received it in the same way, for Muhammad to be similar to them. Unluckily the Bible tells that Yahweh only used direct contact (Abraham, Moses, Samuel, Jesus, and a few more), visions, and dreams (4. Mos. 12/6-7). Sending messages to prophets by means of inspiration is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

##141 42/13d: “The same religion (Islam*) has He (Allah*) established for - - - Abraham, Moses, and Jesus”. Neither the Quran, nor Hadith, nor Islam has brought the slightest valid proof for this - only words and claims. And at least when it comes to Jesus, it is wrong. The teachings of Jesus and the ones of Muhammad are fundamentally too different. Of course Muslims say that the Bible is falsified and that scriptures have disappeared – that is the only way out they have. But they have yet to prove the first and to prove that scriptures documenting all the points Islam says now are wrong in other religions, have disappeared. And that only false ones and none reliable and impossible to misunderstand ones have reappeared among the relevant 13ooo - 13ooo scriptures + the some 32ooo with references to the Bible which exists. “Strong claims need strong proofs.” This even more so as science by means of all the old scriptures has proved that the Bible is not falsified – a fact that is extra clear for NT. (Though Jesus + the Qumran scrolls are an as 100% proof for OT.) And as central: Islam has proved the same even stronger by being unable to find one single proved falsification among all those scriptures. You bet they had told about it if they had found even one. As for Abraham and Moses being good Muslims, for one thing that is strongly contradicted by the Bible, which tells their god was Yahweh, and for another thing: As mentioned no traces from Islam older than 610 AD has ever or anywhere been found - not even by Islam - - - and Moses lived some 2000 years before, and Abraham some 2500 years before Muhammad.

142 43/6-8: “But how many were the prophets We (Allah*) sent (a rhetoric question as Hadith tells there were at least 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.)*) amongst the peoples of the old? But never came there a prophet to them but they mocked him. So we destroyed them (the mocking people*) - - -”. With this many prophets, Allah must have destroyed millions. The expression “wholesale slaughter” is insignificant in the extreme here. Yahweh in OT is hardly a baby in this competition.

Another point is that the claim is not true. Most of the old Jewish prophets were respected, not mocked. (There were many more prophets than the ones named in the Bible, and the ones mentioned there, tended to be the ones who happened to come in opposition to powers, and thus part of - often moral - strife.)

###143 43/23a: "- - - whenever We (Allah*) sent a Warner - - -". If Allah sent warners, not one of them has left any trace on earth. The only possible exception is Muhammad, but all the errors, contradictions, etc. prove that the Quran was from no god, and thus that Muhammad did not represent a god.

144 43/27a: "- - - Him (Allah*) who made me (Abraham*) - - -". This interesting claim that Allah created the humans, you meet many places in the Quran. The reason why it is interesting, is that neither Muhammad nor Allah ever was able to prove anything about creation, whereas Yahweh proved his power on that point many times - if either the Quran or the Bible tells the truth about just this (f.x. 1. Kings 17/22, 2. Kings 4/34-35, Matt. 27/52, Mark 5/41, Luke 7/15, John 11/44, Acts 9/40, Acts 20/10, and the Quran 3/39b, 5/110i).

145 43/45a: “And question thou Our (Allah’s*) messengers whom We sent before thee (Muhammad*); did We appoint any deity other than (Allah) Most Gracious, to be worshipped?” Allah or Yahweh for the Biblical ones? (In spite of what the Quran says, it is not the same god unless the god is schizophrenic – the teachings are fundamentally too different. Islam tries to explain away – without documentation like normal for Islam – the differences by means of claims that the Bible is falsified, but science has long since proved that it is not true - and Islam has proved it even stronger. There may be a limited number of mistakes in that book, too – though much less than in the Quran - but no falsifications.

In plain words: Allah did not appoint any deity - he never even has documented power to do so. But according to the old books there at least was Yahweh, though instead of, not in addition to Allah (Allah as mentioned has never reliably proved his very existence even).

146 43/49c: "- - - for we (Pharaoh Ramses II*) shall truly accept guidance - - -". One thing is that nothing like this is in the Bible. Another thing is: How likely is it that Ramses II - probably the mightiest Pharaoh ever - said things like this about the god of a bunch of slaves?

And how likely is it that Ramses II had even heard about Allah nearly 2ooo years before Muhammad?

147 43/49d: "- - - for we (Pharaoh Ramses II*) shall truly (definitely not a proved truth - only a not proved claim*) accept guidance (= accept Islam*)". In the Bible he only promised to let the Jews go, not to mention that there was no religious quarrel. As the Quran is not from any god - too many mistakes, etc. - from where did Muhammad get this version? And have Muslims found a single trace of Islam in Egypt or anywhere else older than 610 AD? - some 2ooo years after this is said to have happened. Also see 43/52s below.

148 48/23b: "(Such has been) the practice (approved) of Allah in the past - - -". Even if Muhammad had been right and Yahweh and Allah had been the same god (see f.x. 29/46ec and 48/23a above), this claim had been wrong. For a period - mainly from Moses and for some centuries afterwards Yahweh according to the Bible was a bit aggressive in order to establish and secure a national country for the Jews. That finished - and perhaps because of the Pax Romana (27 BC to 180 AD) making it possible for a peaceful religion to take hold - he sent (according to the Bible) Jesus and his mild new covenant of love and peace.

149 48/23c: "- - - no change wilt thou (a person*) find in the practice (approved) of Allah." Similar to 48/23a above.

150 57/25a: "We (Allah*) sent aforetime Our messengers - - -". The Quran claims that Allah has sent prophets to all people through all times preaching Islam - included the old Jewish prophets(!) - but that the teaching has been falsified or superseded by false religions. The Hadiths mentions the number 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) prophets/messengers, and the "real" number must be even higher. Except for the old Jewish ones and Muhammad, neither science nor Islam has been able to find the slightest traces from any of them.

###151 57/25c: "- - - (Allah*) sent with them (the 124ooo claimed earlier prophets/messengers) the Book (a claimed copy of the claimed "Mother of the Book" in Heaven - the same one the Quran is a claimed exact copy of*) - - -". ####This is one of the places where the Quran makes it clear that the claimed earlier prophets/messengers also got their book similar to the Quran - a copy of the claimed timeless "Mother of Books" revered by Allah and his angels in his Heaven. And copies of the same book has to be identical - if not Islam has got another problem to explain.

Neither science nor Islam has found the slightest traces from or references to such a book older than 610 AD when Muhammad started his mission. From the Bible and relevant references to the Bible science has found altogether some 45ooo manuscripts and fragments. This discrepancy exists even though according to the Quran copies similar to the Quran has existed on Earth as long as man has existed - even though for most of that time man did not know how to read - and even though Allah sent down at least one copy to each of his messengers and prophets (at least 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years. No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) according to Hadiths) + all the copies which naturally were written from those copies, just like from the Bible.

Are the age and the quantities of the Quran bluffs?

152 57/26a: "We (Allah*) sent Noah and Abraham - - -". According to the Bible their god was Yahweh, not Allah - a very different god, especially like you meet him in NT and the new covenant (Luke 22/20) never mentioned by Islam.

p>153 59/6b: "- - - Allah gives power to His Messengers over any He pleases". But strangely enough normally not without fighting and normally not unless the Muslims turned out to be the strongest. Strange for a claimed omnipotent god. Napoleon said: "God is with the strongest armies". It may seem that Allah needed strong armies to win.

154 65/8b: "- - - His (Allah's*) Messengers - - -". The Quran claims that all people to all times off and on have been sent prophets/messengers teaching Islam - Hadiths mentions the number 124ooo (= 620 at any time for 5ooo years (roughly the religious time aspect since Adam to Muhammad) or 12-15 for 160-200ooo years (the existence of Homo Sapiens - modern man). No traces from them found. Believe it if you can.) through the times. Neither science nor Islam has ever found one single trace from them, so believe the claim if you are able to. It also is mathematical and psychological illogical that a relatively few prophets should establish Jewism, one Christianity, and one self proclaimed one Islam - - - and all the others not leave a trace, even though they preached a similar religion according to Islam.

155 66/10c: "- - - the wife of Noah and the wife of Lut (Lot*) - - - were false to their (husbands) - - -". This contradicts the Bible. There is mentioned nothing like this about the wife of Noah, and as for the death of the wife of Lot it had nothing to do with being false to her husband - she just turned to look at what happened, something the angels had warned against, but it is not indicated it was because of disobedience (when dramatic things happen, it is normal and human to react to them). Simply contradicted by the Bible by not mentioning anything like the Quran claims. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

##156 66/12a: “And Mary the daughter of ‘Imran - - -”. Once more this famous mistake. Imran was the father of Moses and Aaron - - - but they lived (if they are not fiction) some 1200 years before Mary, mother of Jesus. The pharaoh of Moses f.x. was Ramses II according to science, and we know when he lived. Muslims try to explain this with that it was another Imran, but science agrees on that it is the same one, and that Muhammad here made a genuine mistake. This even more so as Hadith shows that Muhammad later was told about his mistake, and tried to “explain” it away, but without success.

By the way: The name of Mary's father in the traditions was Jojakim or Jocim.

157 66/12e: "- - - he (Mary's*) Lord (god*) - - -". The Quran claims that Mary believed in Allah. If you know nothing about Israel at that time, you of course are free to believe it. But it is strongly contradicted by the Bible and by historical facts (Yahweh was the Jews' single god at that time), which say her god was Yahweh, not Allah. We also now are far enough into the twilight of history to know that it is highly unlikely that any Jews believed in al-Lah/Allah or in a religion like Islam around year 1 BC (or really around ca. 6 BC, as the year numbers are not 100% correct - they made a mistake when they calculated the year of the birth of Jesus, when they started to recon time from his birth). No Allah involved in Israel at the time of Jesus according to historical science. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

####It is a scientific and undisputable fact that neither science nor Islam has found any traces from a religion like Islam or a god like al-Lah/Allah in Israel - or any other place - around year 1. (Except the polytheistic version in Arabia of course.)

158 72/26-27: "- - - nor does He (Allah*) make anyone acquainted with his Mysteries - Except a Messenger (can only be Muhammad in this case*) He (Allah) has chosen - - -". Muhammad is not a prophet, but he really is a close friend to Allah it seems - or perhaps made to seem so?.

159 73/15e: "- - - even as we (Allah*) sent a Messenger (Moses*) to Pharaoh." For one thing it is likely it was Yahweh who sent Moses, but that aside: Is the comparison to Moses correct? - if either the Bible or the Quran or both tell the truth on this point, Moses strongly proved he had connection to something supernatural. Muhammad never proved even an atom of his central claims - there only were strong, but lose claims and as cheap words and even at least a few lies, plus demands for and glorification of blind belief - all of which are hallmarks of cheats, swindlers and deceivers.

160 73/15f: "- - - even as we (Allah*) sent a Messenger (Moses*) to Pharaoh." Contradicted by the Bible, which says it was Yahweh who sent Moses, not Allah. Also see 67/9c above - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

160 comments. Sub-total = 9068 + 160 = 9228.


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This work was upload with assistance of M. A. Khan, editor of islam-watch.org and the author of "Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism, and Slavery".