1000+ Comments on the Quran: Surah 65 -- Al-Talaq (Divorce)
20 June 2012
Revelation: Medina, 626 - 628 AD.
(See general comments on Surahs here: Introduction)
The quotes and comments
001 "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful". Please read the surahs from Medina, the immoral parts of the Muslim moral code, the unjust/immoral parts of sharia, and the Quran's rules for lying, thieving/looting, enslaving, raids and wars, plus the rules for treatment of girls and women - free and captured - and see if you agree. Always when there is a distance between words and corresponding demands and deeds, we personally believe in the demands and deeds. Glorious words are cheap, demands and deeds are reliable. Glorifying words and claims are too cheap for anyone to use and disuse - when you read, judge from realities, not from propaganda.
002 65/1a: “O Prophet (Muhammad*)!” But Muhammad was no real prophet. The definition of a prophet was a person who could see at least parts of the unseen, and thus a person who:
Has the gift of and close enough connection to a god for making prophesies.
Makes prophesies which always or at least mostly come true.
Makes so frequent and/or essential prophesies, that it is a clear part of his mission.
A few things Muhammad said, came true – like it has to do for any person saying many things through many years – and most of what he said which did not come true, was forgotten (also this is what normally happens if it is nothing spectacular). But he did not guess the future correctly often - actually he statistically and according to the laws of probability should have "hit the mark" far more often by sheer chance than he did - there just are a few cases where Muslims will claim he foretold something correctly, and few if any of them are "perfect hits". But then the Quran makes it pretty clear that even though he was intelligent, he had little fantasy, and that he also was nearly unable to make innovative thinking (nearly all his tales and his ideas in reality were "borrowed" ones - though often twisted to fit his new religion).
The main things here are that Muhammad never indicated that anything of what he said was meant as prophesies, that he never indicated, not to mention claimed, that he had the gift of prophesying - of "seeing the unseen" - that it nowhere is documented that all/most of what he said about the future came true (point 2 above), and finally that both he and Islam said and says that Muhammad was unable to see the unseen (extra revealing here is that the old Biblical title for a prophet, was "a seer" - one who saw the unseen (f.x. 1. Sam. 9/9)) and also that Islam even today admits there were no miracles connected to Muhammad “except the Quran” (prophesying is a kind of miracle - seeing what has not yet happened). (This fact that Islam admits there were no miracles connected to Muhammad "except the revelation of the Quran" also is a solid proof for that all the miracles connected to Muhammad mentioned in the Hadiths, are made up stories - but all the same many a mullah and imam and scholar use these stories, which Islam admits are made up ones, as "proofs" for that Muhammad had supernatural powers and was a prophet. Honesty is not the strong side of Muslim religious leaders.) Also see 30/40a and 30/46a, and we also should add that his favorite wife (and infamous child wife) Aishah according to Hadiths (f.x. Al-Bukhari) stated that anyone saying Muhammad could foresee things, were wrong.
Verse 7/188b also is very relevant here: "If I (Muhammad*) had knowledge of the Unseen (= what is hidden or what has not happened yet*), I should have - - -". IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT MUHAMMAD DID NOT HAVE THE PROPHETS' ABILITY TO SEE "THE UNSEEN" - he was no real prophet. Similar in 6/50a, 7/188b, 10/20c+d, 10/49a+b, and 72/26.
As mentioned: Also relevant here is that the original title of the Jewish prophets as mentioned was not "prophet" but "seer" - one who saw at least parts of the unseen. (F.x. 1. Sam. 9/9#, 1. Sam. 9/11, 1. Sam. 9/18, 1. Sam. 9/19, 2. Kings. 17/13, 1. Chr. 9/22, 1. Chr. 26/28, 1. Chr. 29/29, 2. Chr. 9/29, 2. Chr. 16/7, 2. Chr.16/10, 2. Chr. 19/2, 2. Chr. 29/25, Amos 7/12, Mic. 3/7 - some places the two titles even are used side by side). Muhammad thus so definitely was no seer - prophet - even according to his own words; he had no "knowledge of the unseen". One more proof for that he was not in the same line - not to say league - as Jesus, if the Bible and/or the Quran tell the truth about Jesus on this point.
Many liked - and like - the title prophet, and there have been made other definitions for this title - the most common of these are "one who brings messages from a god", or "one who represents a god", or "one who acts/talks on behalf of a god". But the fact remains: Without being able to prophesy, he or she is no real prophet. A messenger for someone or something - ok. An apostle - ok. But not a real prophet.
***This is a fact no Muslim will admit: Muhammad in reality simply was no real prophet or seer. Perhaps a messenger for someone or something or for himself – or perhaps an apostle – but not a real prophet. He only “borrowed” that impressive and imposing title. It is up to anyone to guess why.
It also is remarkable that Muhammad relatively seldom used the title "prophet" about himself in the Quran. He mostly used the title "Messenger", even though messenger in reality means an errand-boy (Muslims try to make this title something big and imposing, but this is the meaning of it). "Prophet" on the other hand is a heavy and impressive title telling a lot about the person. May the reason for why he did not use it so often, be that he knew he did not have what it took to merit that title, and was a little careful using it, so as not to provoke questions or comments? (And is this also the reason why Muslims try to pretend that "messenger" is something more impressive and heavy than "prophet"?)
If the Quran simply belongs among the apocryphal books, many things are easy to understand, and it at least belongs in that line and tradition, even if it is further "out" than most of the others. Muhammad also fits the picture of the leader of an apocryphal sect, admittedly more immoral and bloody than most of the others.
Also see 30/40h and 30/47b above.
003 65/1b: “O Prophet! When ye (also all other Muslims*) divorce women - - -". What Muslims never mention, is that Muhammad had at least 16 short-time wives (see the chapter about Muhammad and his women - at least 36 - in www.1000mistakes.com ). NT on the other hand does not really accept divorce (f.x. Matt. 5/32) - and polygamy not at all. One more proof for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god, and for that Jesus and Muhammad is not in the same line of anything religiously essential.
004 65/1c: “O Prophet! When ye (also all other Muslims*) divorce women, divorce them in their prescribed period, and count (accurately) their prescribed periods - - -.” Not on account of the welfare of the woman, but to make sure who is the father if there is a child afterwards.
005 65/1d: "- - - fear Allah your (Muslims'/humans'*) Lord - - -". No reason for that, unless he exists and is something supernatural.
006 65/1e: "- - - Allah your (Muslims'/humans'*) Lord - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which says Yahweh is the lord, not Allah. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.
007 65/1f: "- - - any who transgress the limits of Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul". As the Quran is not from a god, the relevant question is: Are the limits from Allah? - from dark forces pretending to be a god? - or from humans, f.x. Muhammad?
008 65/1g: "- - - transgresses the limits of Allah - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses expressions like this, it means anyone not living according to the Quran's partly immoral moral rules, partly unethical ethical rules, and partly unjust judicial rules.
009 65/1h: "Verily - - -". See 2/2b above.
010 65/1i: "- - - wrong - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral cod.
011 65/2a: “Thus when they fulfill their term appointed (connected to a revocable divorce*), either take them back on equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms - - -.” The law is clear, and often it functions. But especially when it comes to contact with their children – and especially boys – the woman is in a weak position.
012 65/2b: "- - - either take them (your former wife*) back - - -". A Muslim can divorce his wife two times and take her back. Only if he divorces her 3 times he cannot take her back - not until she has married another man, had sex with him (an absolute demand) and divorced him.
013 65/2c: "- - - justice - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code, partly unethical ethical code, partly unjust judicial cod, etc.
014 65/2d: "Such is the admonition given to him who believes in Allah and the Last Day - - -". As the Quran is not from a god: The admonition given by whom?
015 65/2e: "- - - him who believes in Allah and the Last Day - - -". Muslims.
016 65/2f: "- - - the Last Day - - -". The Day of Doom.
017 65/2g: "- - - those who fear Allah - - -". Muslims.
018 65/2h: "- - - (for Muslims*) He (Allah*) (ever) prepares a way out". If he exists and is something supernatural - - - and at all cares about lowly humans.
019 65/3a "- - - if anyone puts his trust in Allah - - -". A bit risky, as long as it is highly unlikely in the extreme that he exists.
020 65/3b: "- - - sufficient is Allah for him (the Muslim*)". He may be right if Allah exists and is a god. He is wrong if Allah exists, but represents dark forces pretending to be a god - Muhammad would have no chance to see the difference (many harsh parts of the Quran may indicate this). He also is wrong if Allah does not exist.
021 65/3c: "For Allah will surely accomplish His purpose - - -". Only if he exists and is powerful, none of which was ever proved.
022 65/3d; "- - - surely - - -". See 2/2b above.
023 65/3e: "- - - for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion". Similar often claimed, never proved.
024 65/3f: " - - - verily - - -". See f.x. 2/2b and 61/4a+b above.
025 65/4a: “Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses (when divorcing them*), for them the prescribed period (of waiting*) is 3 months if ye have any doubt, and for those who have no courses (it is the same).” A clear law – and should there have happened something in spite of all – pregnancy – one will know the father.
026 65/4b: “- - - for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period (in divorce*) is until they deliver their burdens (till the baby is born*) - - -.” Also a clear law.
027 65/5a: "That is the Command of Allah - - -". But as the Quran is not from a god, the pertinent question is: Is the command really from Allah? - or from some dark forces pretending to be Allah? - or from one or more humans, f. x. Muhammad? - or simply from a sick brain like modern medical science suspects, like TLE (Temporal Lobe Epilepsy)? Rules similar to the ones in 65/1-4 which this refers to, you do not find in NT at all.
028 65/5b: "That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down - - -". No god ever sent down the texts of the Quran - too much is wrong in them.
029 65/5c: "That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down to you (Muhammad*) - - -". As no god sent down the Quran, also no god sent it down to Muhammad.
030 65/5d: "- - - if anyone fears Allah - - -". Little reason for that unless he exists and is something supernatural.
031 65/5e: "- - - if anyone fears Allah, He will remove his (not her - Islam is a man's religion*) ills from him, and will enlarge his reward". Only possible - possible - is Allah exists and is a god. (Allah may exist and even be a god and not do this all the same, if not the Quran has told the full truth and only the truth about him.)
032 65/6a: “Let the women live (in ‘iddah' (the waiting period around divorce*)) in the same style as ye live.” Also formally a clear law.
033 65/6b: “- - - if they carry (life in their wombs) (at divorce*), then spend (your substance) on them until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle your (offspring), give them recompense - - -.” Another formally ok law. But all these laws are told to the man – his decides mostly. Not to the woman. Or to both.
034 65/6c: "- - - on the (father's) behalf". No comment - and none necessary.
035 65/6d: "- - - just - - -". There is not too much justice in the sharia laws when it comes to handling children in cases of divorce - it is the interests of the father which counts. When you like we have met a quite young, divorced mother who hides herself behind a hedge to be able sometimes to see her primary school child, you see how much "justice" there are in those laws. Worse: Such laws are bad for the children - it is elementary psychology that children normally need and benefit from contact with both parents.
036 65/6e: "- - - on the (father's) behalf". See 65/6d just above.
037 65/7a: "- - - according to what Allah has given him (a man*)". It is not your toil which makes you rich or poor, but what gifts Allah gives you.
038 65/7b: “Allah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him.” Well, there are people in Muslim countries, too, who cannot bear the burdens and flee – to other places or even from this life.
039 65/8a: "How many populations that insolently opposed the Command of their Lord (Allah*) and of His Messengers, did We (Allah*) not call to account (destroy*) - - -". In and around Arabia there were scattered ruins, and also in old Arab folklore there were tales about former people and tribes. Muhammad claimed that all these were destroyed by Allah because they sinned against him. Science points to a number of other possible reasons in a harsh country with warlike people.
040 65/8b: "- - - His (Allah's*) Messengers - - -". The Quran claims that all people to all times off and on have been sent prophets/messengers teaching Islam - Hadiths mentions the number 124ooo through the times. Neither science nor Islam has ever fond one single trace from them, so believe the claim if you are able to. It also is mathematical and psychological illogical that a relatively few prophets should establish Jewism, one Christianity, and one self proclaimed one Islam - - - and all the others not leave a trace, even though they preached a similar religion according to Islam.
041 65/8c: "And We (Allah*) imposed on them (some non-Muslims*) an exemplary Punishment". In and around Arabia there were ruins or deserted houses, villages, etc., and also in the local folklore there were tales about disappeared tribes, etc. Muhammad claimed they had all been killed by Allah because of sins against him. Modern science laugh from those claims - there are much more likely reasons in a harsh and warlike area.
042 65/8d: "- - - an exemplary Punishment". See 3/77b above.
043 65/9: "Then did they (bad non-Muslims*) taste the evil result of their conduct - - -". See 65/8a above.
044 65:10a: "Allah has prepared - - -". This only is possible if he exists and in addition is powerful.
045 65/10b: "- - - a severe punishment - - -". Here Hell. But also see 3/77b above.
046 65/10c: "- - - fear Allah - - -". There is no reason for that unless he exists and is something supernatural.
047 65/10d: "- - - O ye men of understanding - - -". See 13/3j above.
048 65/10e: "- - - O ye men of understanding - who have believed - - -". - who have become Muslims.
049 65/10f: "Allah hath indeed sent down to you (Muhammad/Muslims*) a Message - - -". Wrong. No omniscient god ever sent down a book with that many mistaken facts and other errors.
050 65/10g: "- - - Allah hath indeed sent down to you a Message (the Quran*) - - -". No omniscient god was ever involved in a book of a quality like the Quran.
051 65/10h: "- - - indeed - - -". See 2/2b above.
052 65/11a: "A Messenger - - -". Muhammad.
053 65/11b: "A Messenger - - -". Muhammad. But see 63/5a above.
054 65/11c: "A Messenger - - -". Muhammad. A historical anomaly.
055 65/11d: "A Messenger - - - (who*) may lead forth those who believe - - - from the depths of Darkness into light." Wrong. No teaching as full of mistakes. etc, not from a god, and with a partly immoral moral code and a partly unjust law, etc. can lead anyone to religious light."
056 65/11e: "- - - the Signs of Allah - - -". There never was one single unmistakable sign for Allah. The best proof for this is how quiet the leading Muslim scholars are about proved claims.
**057 65/11f: “- - - the Signs of Allah (are*) containing clear explanations - - -”. Wrong. There is not one single of the “Signs” referred in the Quran, which has any value, neither as proof nor as explanation (with the possible explanation of some taken from the Bible, but they talk about another god, Yahweh). The reasons are that they without exception just are loose statements or are building on other invalid statements, “signs“ or “proofs” - totally invalid. If a person consciously uses such invalid arguments, they are the hallmarks of a cheat and a deceiver. No god would use them. Also see 2/39b, 2/299a, 2/299b, 30/9 and 30/30 above.
058 65/11g: "- - - those who believe - - -". Muslims.
069 65/11h: "- - - righteous deeds - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code.
060 65/11i: "- - - the depths of Darkness - - -". Anything outside Islam. Believe it if you want. To be true Islam has to be a real religion with an existing, benevolent god. If there are other existing gods - f. x. Yahweh - the claim suddenly becomes only partly correct. And if Allah does not exist or is from the dark forces, but pretending to be a god, they are totally wrong.
061 65/11j: "- - - (leading') into Light (Islam*)". Comment similar to the last 3/4 of the one in 65/11f just above.
062 65/11k: "- - - work righteousness - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code.
063 65/11l: "- - - He (Allah*) will admit them (Muslims*) to Gardens beneath which rivers flow - - -". This Allah only can do if he exists and is a benevolent god. (If he in reality is something from dark forces, which parts of the Quran and parts of its moral code may indicate, it is likely he will invite them somewhere else).
064 65/11m: "- - - Gardens beneath which rivers flow - - -". The Quran's and Islam's Paradise - see 10/9f above.
065 65/11n: "- - - beneath which rivers flow - - -". The most frequently used Arabism in the Quran.
066 65/11o: "- - - to dwell therein (Paradise*) for ever - - -". Verse 11/108c indicates that Paradise may be is not quite forever. Islam is a little at a loss how to explain that verse. The favorite explanation is that the good Muslims in Paradise then will be moved to an even better place, but this is not said in the Quran - it is based on wishful thinking.
067 65/11p: "Allah hath indeed granted - - -". This he only can do if he exists.
068 65/11q: "Allah hath indeed granted for them a most excellent Provision". If he exists, if he is a benevolent god - and if the Quran tells the truth on this point.
069 65/11r: "- - - a most excellent Provision". Here: Paradise.
070 65/11s: "- - - indeed - - -".
**071 65/12a: “Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments - - -”. Firmament is another name for the heaven as we see it - mostly used about the night sky. The Quran so many places states there are 7 heavens or firmaments or tracts or just heavens in plural referring to the 7 heavens, that there is no doubt about what it means. It is totally wrong, though. (Even if Muslims try to explain it away with 7 layers in the atmosphere or diffuse arguments about the space as we know it today or statements about it being an allegory - the standard last resort for Muslims for explaining or "explaining" things that are impossible to explain - even though it very clearly is no allegory - clear at least to anyone not full of wishful thinking or religious inhibitions.
You find these claims about 7 heavens/firmaments/tracts in 2/29d+e, 17/44a, 23/17a, 23/86a, 41/12a+b, 65/12a, 67/3a+b and 71/15a+b - all together the Quran mentions "heavens" in plural at least 199 times; there is no doubt the Quran means there are 7 heavens (and as the stars are fastened to the lowermost of them - f. x. 67/5a - they have to be material ones - if not the stars could not be fastened to it). In 67/3 you also are told they are places one above the other, which means they of course are built successively higher above the Earth - which also is clear from most places in the Quran where the place of the heavens are indicated. Some modern Muslims try to place the heavens in space, deep space included. But among others 67/3 prohibits this, as "up" and "down" ("one above the other") has no meaning as part of the real space.
By the way: 67/12b also claims there are 7 Earths, and gives their names according to Islam.
072 65/12b: “Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments (wrong*) and of the earth a similar number”. According to Hadith the last part means 7 separate Earths - one above the other. According to Muhammad Ibn ‘Abd Allah al-Kisa’I the last part means 7 layers down in the Earth according to one “explanation”. But what the Quran really says, is 7 Earths – 7 flat Earths. No matter if you believe the Quran/Hadith or one of the “explanations” for this somewhat special geology/geography/astronomy, the names of the “Earths” from top and down are:
Ramaka. People: Muwasshim, in everlasting torment and divine retribution.
Khalada. People: Tamis, eating their own flesh, drinking their own blood.
Arqa. People: Qays, eatimg dirt, drinking mother's milk. Pest: Mulelike eagles with spearlike tails and poisenous quills.
Haraba. People: Jilla, have no eyes, hands, or feet, but batlike wings. Pest: the snakes of Hell, large as mountains.
Maltham. People: Hajla, eat each other. Pest: carry stones of sulphur around their neck - may burn.
Sijjin. People: Qatat, look like birds, worship Allah. Pest(?): contains the register of Hell.
Ajiba. People: Khasum, black and short, with claws like lions. Pest: Iblis/the Devil lives here (Hell?). Gog and Magog will end here.
(As you see included "our Earth, Islam lists 8, but if you recon Ajiba - where Iblis/the Devil lives - to contain Hell, there are 7 + Hell. We have not found out of this for sure.) Also see: "The Islamic universe. 7 Heavens, 7 Earths, and Hell", under 67/5d below.
According to f.x. Hadith, Al-Bukhari, they are placed one above the other – easy as the Quran tells Earth is/are flat. The lower down, the more devilish life on the respective "Earth" – and if you are a big enough sinner, you can fall down through them to Hell at the Day of Doom according to Hadiths. It is not necessary to say it is all rubbish. No comments. But also see 65/12c just below.
073 65/12c: “Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments (wrong*) and of the earth a similar number”. Modern Islam has problems with this one, as it is so obviously wrong, and so difficult to explain away. As mentioned one way to try to explain it away, is to claim the Quran here speaks about different layers in the Earth - which it most obviously do not do, and a way of understanding it none of Muhammad's listeners and none of the Muslim scholars of the old even thought about. And also an "explanation" which "forgets" that Islam claims (well, they speak with very small letters about it nowadays) that on each of the 7 earths there lived sentient beings - impossible in the stone and iron and pressure and temperature inside Earth - but then it is typical for Muslims to produce "explanations" for difficult problems, mistakes, etc., which seemingly may explain one or a few aspects of a case, and "forget" about other aspects of the same or other cases which kills the made up or trumped up "explanation".
Yusuf Ali (YA5527) has this claim for an "explanation" - and like all other Muslims trying this explanation, he "forget" that Islam (Hadiths) claims there live "humans" on each of the claimed Earths: "If we take the literal meaning (= what the Quran really says - and this is how the Quran is to be understood if nothing else is said or clearly indicated according to the Quran*) - just as we see the heavenly spheres one above another (they do not exist!!), over our heads, so we can see that the crust of the earth is built up of geological strata one above another". But you will never find a Muslim trying to explain this in more details if he can in any way avoid it. The reason is that in addition to the "humans" Islam claims live on the different Earths, and which are "forgotten" here, this "explanation" is scientific gobbledygook:
li>If you only take the crust, it is normal to reckon 2 (not 7) strata - upper and lower crust: Heavy stone like basalt at the bottom and lighter like granite at the top. 2 layers is very different from 7.
Some Muslims use the whole Earth. Then science normally reckons 3 layers: The core, the mantel, and the crust - still a long way to go to find 7.
The Muslim fares somewhat better if the scientist splits up these layers somewhat - like they often do. Then you get the lower and upper core, the lower and upper mantle, and the crust = 5 layers - or 6 if you also split the crust in a lower and upper one - but still not 7.
The scientific stratifying of the Earth - splitting it in layers - is a rather arbitrary affair, except where it is split in core, mantle and crust. Such arbitrary splitting can be done in many ways, and if you look long enough and split in the correct way, it is very likely you will find a way to split it in 7 theoretical ways - - - and then you have your and the Quran's 7 Earths!!! - admittedly very different from what is told in the Quran, and Hades take the "forgotten" inhabitants Islam tells about on the claimed Earths. The magic number - not to say the number magic - is found and as the number fits, the "explanation" is proved!! You will find that some mistakes in the Quran are tried explained away in this way - find some facts, real or claimed, which looks like they fit one or some aspects of the problem, forget the other aspects, especially if they prove your "explanation" wrong, and then you have your "solution" or sometimes even "proof". That both science and normal brain power tell that an explanation is invalid if it does not explain all aspects of a problem, is totally overlooked and of no interest to those Muslims.
As for using layers - strata - in the crust for an explanation like Abdullah Yusuf Ali indicates, you run into one more problem: Because of the tectonic activity (movement - also up and down) in the crust, it will be impossible to find 7 continuous layers in the Crust. May be this is why he did not say more about how layers in the crust can explain the Quran's 7 "Earths".
074 65/12d: "Through the midst of them (the heavens and the Earths*) (all) descends his Command - - -". As for the Earths: A disc has a midst through which things may pass. A ball like the real Earth only has a center - a point deep inside. Another confirmation for that in the Quran the Earth(s) is(are) flat.
075 65/12e: "- - - Allah has power over all things - - ". He in case never has proved this power.
076 65/12f: “- - - Allah comprehends all things in (His) Knowledge.” Not if he made the Quran. Also see f. x. 13/1g and 40/75 above.
077 65/12g: "- - - Knowledge - - -". See 26/83a above.
Surah 65: Sub-total: 77 + 18.989 = 19.066 comments.
NB: If you find any mistakes anywhere, please inform us. If it is a real mistake, it will be corrected. Please also inform us if we have overlooked points or errors.
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This work was upload with assistance of M. A. Khan, editor of islam-watch.org and the author of "Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism, and Slavery".