1000+ Comments on the Quran: Surah 17 -- Al-Izra' (The Night Journey)

Revelation: Mecca, 621 AD or later.

(See general comments on Surahs here: Introduction)


 

The quotes and comments

 

001 "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful". Please read the surahs from Medina, the immoral parts of the Muslim moral code, the unjust/immoral parts of sharia, and the Quran's rules for lying, thieving/looting, enslaving, raids and wars, plus the rules for treatment of girls and women - free and captured - and see if you agree. Remember; the "gold standard" for morality is: "Do to others what you want others do to you", and for empathy: "Do to others what you would like others do to you". Always when there is a distance between words and corresponding demands and deeds, we personally believe in the demands and deeds. Glorious words are cheap, demands and deeds are reliable. Glorifying words and claims are too cheap for anyone to use and disuse - when you read, judge from realities, not from propaganda.

002 17/1a: "Glory to (Allah*) - - -". Please red 1/1a above and see if he deserves it.

003 17/1b: "- - - His (Allah*) Servant - - -". Muhammad.

004 17/1c: "- - - His (Allah*) Servant (Muhammad*)- - -". A historical anomaly.

005 17/1d: “- - - the Sacred Mosque - - -". Kabah in Mecca.

006 17/1e: “(Allah took Muhammad*) from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque - - -” = To the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem according to Islam – but they still disagree on whether it was a real trip or a dream.

007 17/1f: "- - - the Farthest Mosque - - -” = the Dome of the Rock mosque in Jerusalem according to Islam. The problem is that this mosque did not exist at that time (621 AD). And: The old Jewish temple was destroyed by Titus and his Roman Army in 70 AD, and nothing of any consequence was built on this small mountain until the Dome of the Rock was built in 690 AD, some 620 years later - - - and some 65-70 years after surah 17 - “The Night Journey” - was dictated around or after 621 AD. There simply was no mosque to visit around 621-622 AD. Is this a later addition to the Quran? - after all the book existed in many versions which were copied and copied by hand and thus could change a little now and then, and it was not really finished until around 900 AD. (Muslims explains this away with that the remaining few stubs of walls of the old Jewish temple are what are meant, but that definitely is not what the Quran says.)

008 17/1g: “(Allah took Muhammad*) to the Farthest Mosque (and from there to Heaven*)” = the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem according to Islam – but Muslims still disagree on whether it was a real trip or a dream. Aishah tells in the Hadiths that he did not leave her bed that night, so most likely it was a dream. There also is another fact: Humans does not go to Heaven until after the Day of Doom according to many places both in the Bible and the Quran. Muhammad met several humans on this trip, which would not be possible until after the Day of Doom - and the day of Doom had not happened in 621 AD naturally (and not later either) so this could not have happened in or around 621 AD if it had really happened - it has to have been a dream. But of course it would have had been more impressive if it had been a real happening. Also the information(?) had been more reliable - a dream after all is just a dream. May be because of this many Muslims cling to the claim that the trip was real. But then Muslims have a tendency to give wishful thinking a priority over facts and logic.

009 17/1h: "- - - the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We (Allah*) did bless - - -". This blessing was only possible if Allah exists.

010 17/1i: "- - - in order that We (Allah*) might show him (Muhammad*) - - -". Only possible if Allah exists - though possible if he exists even if he is no god, as long as he has supernatural powers.

011 17/1j: "- - - Our (Allah's*) Signs - - -". Wrong. See f. ex. 2/39b above.

013 17/2a: “We (Allah*) gave Moses the Book (the Quran or similar to the Quran = the "not falsified" Books of Moses, is what is indicated - claimed buy Islam), - - -”. According to all information and to science this is wrong. God /Yahweh gave him (according to the Bible) the 10 commandments only + he told him the law (later a part of the Torah) that he himself wrote down. The Books of Moses in reality are several hundred years younger according to science. 

014 17/2b: “We (Allah*) gave Moses the Book - - -". According to the Bible Yahweh was the god of Moses, not Allah.

015 17/2c: "- - - Moses - - -". A historical anomaly.

016 17/2d: "Take no other than Me (Allah*) as Disposer of (your (Moses*)) affairs". See 17/2b above.

017 17/2e: "Take no other than Me (Allah*) as Disposer of (your (Moses*)) affairs". The unavoidable fact: Allah can be the disposer of nobody's affairs if he does not exist (and if he exist and is from the dark powers - he is not a god if he is behind the Quran with all its mistakes - he may be quite a special disposer).

018 17/3a: "Ye that are sprung from those We (Allah*) carried (in the Ark) - - -". According to the Bible the involved god was Yahweh, not Allah.

019 17/3b: "Ye that are sprung from those We (Allah*) carried (in the Ark), with Noah". This simply is a complicated way of saying: "You humans".

020 17/3c: "- - - Noah - - -". A historical anomaly.

021 17/3d: "Verily - - -". See 2/2b above.

022 17/3e: "Verily he (Noah*) was a devotee most grateful". He had to be - he lost one of his 3 sons and did not blame Allah. (Not so in the Bible - contradiction. And as it is not from the Bible, and as the Quran is not from a god - too much is wrong - from where did Muhammad get this piece of information?)

023 17/3f: "Verily he (Noah*)was a devotee most grateful". Yes, but to Yahweh, not to Allah, according to the Bible.

024 17/4a: "- - - the Children of Israel - - -". A historical anomaly for everybody living before the Jewish patriarch Jacob (renamed by Yahweh to Israel - 1. Mos. 32/28).

025 17/4b: “- - - (and twice they (the Jews*) should be punished)!” The Jews have been “punished” at least twice during history – does that mean they are in reality are safe now, except for minor episodes?

##026 17/4c: “- - - (and twice they (the Jews*) should be punished)!” This is not from the Bible - it also is wrong, as they have been punished more than 2 times (the Quran all too often is wrong on facts): At least:

Israel (the northern part) conquered and people enslaved and sent away by the Assyrians in 722 BC.

Judah (the southern part) conquered and most of the people taken to Babylon and Babylonia as slaves by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC.

Totally destroyed by Titus and his Romans in 70 AD - the start of the Diaspora. 

Conquered with brutality by the Muslims in 837 or 838 AD. 

Holocaust during WW2 (this is denied by many Muslims. So strong proofs as there are for Holocaust, this tells a lot about both Islam and Muslims - the ability to believe what one wishes to believe no matter how wrong it is and no matter against how strong proofs. Nobody is as blind as the one who refuses to see.

These just were some of the worst cases. Also see 17/6-7 below.

027 17/5a: "When Our (Allah is indicated here*) came to pass - - -". This is likely to be when Israel was conquered by the Assyrians in 722 BC.

028 17/5b: “- - - We (Allah*) sent against you (the Jews*) Our servants (attackers from Assyria) given to terrible warfare - - -”. Israel was attacked some times during the time of OT (local enemies many times, and Assyria and Babylonia are best known), but for natural reasons no Muslim was involved (1000 years and more too early).

029 17/6a: "Then We (Allah*) grant you the Return as against them - - -". This may refer to the return of the Persian king Cyrus after 70 years in Babylon (Ezra 1/2-3). Then in case both warnings were before the return, but it would not be the first time Muhammad/the Quran was wrong on history.

030 17/6b: "We (Allah*) gave you (the Jews*) increase in resources and sons - - -". We will guess few Jews believe in the statement that it was Allah who did so.

031 17/6-7: We are now at the 2. punisher, which may have been Nebuchadnezzar. These two first ones were the Assyrians (722 BC, Northern Kingdom - Israel) and the Babylonians (586 BC, Southern Kingdom - Judah (from which the name Jews derive))- (Solomon's temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC. (Actually Jerusalem was taken in 597 - the rest of Judah in 586 and the Temple destroyed then.) And that was it according to the Quran = 2 times. But the Quran as so often has got history wrong. Because - still omitting the lesser stories - then came Alexander the Great (named Dhu'l Quarnayn in the Quran), though he was not too bad for the Jews - followed by the Romans (61 BC), revolt against the Romans (66 - 73 AD, and the new Temple destroyed 70 AD - remember this when you are told about Muhammad's trip to Heaven from "the Farthest Mosque - there was no mosque or temple there at the time of Moses), Persia (614 AD), Persia beaten (628 AD). Then the Muslims - Jerusalem fell in 637 AD (some sources say 638 AD), and the Muslims stole everything resulting in a hunger catastrophe, this in addition to lots of murdering in the land. Then the Muslim Fatimids - with destruction of f. ex. churches and synagogues ("no compulsion in religion"?). The crusaders (1099 AD). The Mamelukes (Muslims) (1244 AD), The Ottomans (1517 AD). These are some. Plus pogroms in different parts of the world - Muslim and non-Muslim - and the Nazi not included.

032 17/7a: "- - - did well - - - did evil - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses expressions like these, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code.

033 17/7b: "- - - (your enemies would*) enter your (the Jews'*) Temple as they had entered it before, and to visit with destruction all that fell into their power". The temple of Solomon was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar and his Babylonians in 586 BC, which agrees with that the Babylonians were the second warner. But that in case confirms that Muhammad had the history wrong about the return of the Jew wrong (see 17/6a above), because that did not happen until more than 2 generations later - after Babylon was taken by Persia and the Persian king Cyrus let the Jews return.

034 17/8a: "It may be that your Lord (Allah*) may (yet) show Mercy unto you (the Jews*) - - -". Implicated: If you become Muslims. This was in 621 AD - and 2 - 3 years before Muhammad gave in the hope of merging his religion with the Jewish one.

035 17/8b: "It may be that your Lord (Allah*) may (yet) show Mercy unto you (the Jews*) - - -". Contradicted by the Bible - according to the Bible the god of the Jews was Yahweh, not Allah. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

036 17/8c: "- - - (Allah's*) Mercy - - -". See 1/1a above.

037 17/8d: "- - - (- - - sins) - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code. We also may mention that just this word often covers very different deeds, acts, words, and thoughts in the Quran and Islam, than in more normal religions (Islam is a religion of war - in spite of its loud slogans), not to mention how much its meaning in the Quran often differs from the basic of all human moral; "do against others like you want others do against you". Read the surahs from Medina and weep.

038 17/8e: "- - - (- - - Our (Allah's*) punishment - - -". Not possible unless he exists (but easily possible even if he is part of the dark forces).

039 17/8f: "- - - and We (Allah*) have made Hell a prison for those who reject (all Faith)". See 3/77b above.

040 17/8g: "- - - and We (Allah*) have made Hell a prison for those who reject (all Faith)". If Allah exists and is a major god, and if the Quran is not a made up book.

041 17/8g: "- - - and We (Allah*) have made Hell a prison for those who reject (all Faith)". Is this another indication for that in reality it is Allah who is behind Hell? What kind of "good and benevolent god" is he in case?.

042 17/9a: "Verily - - -". See 2/2b above.

###043 17/9b: “Verily the Quran doth guide to that which is most right (or stable) - - -”. That is not possible on basis of a book with unbelievable may be 3000+ mistakes, contradictions, invalid logic, and worse. It is worth adding that “The Message of the Quran” (remark 10 to this surah) specifies that “most right” includes “ethical principles and everything that promotes human life”. A bit special for a religion that has no ethical or moral philosophy, only the dictates from the morally very special war lord and robber baron Muhammad – and reckons robbing, enslavement, rape of captives and slaves, suppression, discrimination, murder, hate, war as “lawful and good” and very clearly permitted, and even encouraged by the god and the religion - and often very far from "do unto others like you want others do unto you". (Well, Allah and Muhammad got many warriors – and for free - and a lot of valuables and slaves). Similar claims, see 2/213 – 48/28. And also see 17/9d below.

044 17/9c: "- - - most right - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code.

###045 17/9d: “- - - and (the Quran*) giveth the glad tidings to the Believers - - -”. What kind of glad tidings can be built on a book containing hundreds of mistakes? And can even tidings be reliable, when built on hundreds and hundreds of mistakes + hundreds and hundreds of unproven statements hanging in the air, resting on unproven words? (See separate chapters in http://www.1000mistakes.com ). And what kind of glad tidings are built on moral and ethics like what you find in the Quran - live a good life at the expenses of misery and catastrophes and death for many others like Muhammad and his followers did?! Also see 17/9b above.

046 17/9e: "- - - Believers - - -". = Muslims.

047 17/9f: "- - - righteousness - - -". Beware that this is in comparison to the rather special Quranic moral code.

048 17/9g: "(Muslims*) shall have a magnificent reward - - -". If Allah exists. And if he has sent down the Quran. And if the Quran tells only the plain and full truth.

049 17/9h: "- - - a magnificent reward". The Quran's and Islam's heaven. See 10/9f above.

050 17/10a: "- - - those who believe not in the Hereafter". One of Muhammad's names for non-Muslims (even though most non-Muslims believe in one kind or another of next life.

051 17/10b: "- - - We (Allah*) have prepared for them (Non-Muslims*) a Penalty - - -". If he exists - if not it just is a bluff from someone.

052 17/10c: "- - - We (Allah*) have prepared for them (Non-Muslims*) a Penalty - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, at least as far as believers in Yahweh go. Also most Muslims will not qualify for Yahweh's paradise, so for them we must hope Allah's paradise exists. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

053 17/10d: "- - - a Penalty grievous (indeed)". See 3/77b above.

054 17/10e: "- - - (indeed) - - -". See 2/2b above.

055 17/11: "- - - good - - - evil - - -". Beware that this is in comparison to the rather special Quranic moral code.

056 17/12a: "We (Allah*)made the Night and the Day - - -". See 11/7a above.

057 17/12b: "- - - two (of Our (Allah's*)) Signs - - -". There exists not one single reliable sign for Allah, and no-one has ever existed. Mostly the claimed "signs" are natural phenomena which Muhammad without proving anything simply claimed for his god - just like many a believer in many a religion has done thousands of times before and after him - unproved words are that easy to "borrow", and are worth exactly nothing as proofs, except that naive souls and wishful thinkers may believe in it. Well, they prove one thing: That the user has no real arguments and no real proofs - if he had had, he had used those instead.

058 17/12c: "- - - (Allah's*) Sign of the Night - - -". See 17/12b just above and 2/39b above.

059 17/12d: "- - - the Sign of the Night (= the night*) have We (Allah*) obscured - - -". The night simply is lack of light. How do you obscure lack of light? Any god had known what night in reality was. Also see 11/7a above.

060 17/12e: "- - - (Allah's*) Sign of the Day We (Allah*) have made to enlighten ye (humans*) - - -". Allah or nature - see 11/7a above.

061 17/12f: "- - - (Allah's*) Sign of the Day We (Allah*) have made to enlighten ye (humans*), that ye may seek bounty from your Lord (Allah*), and that ye may know the number and count of years - - -". We do not think one single astronomer will agree that this is the reason for night and day. (An extra irony is that the Muslim year does not even follow the natural year - it is ca. 11 days shorter.)

062 17/12g: "- - - (Allah's*) Sign - - -". See 2/39 above",

*063 17/12h: “- - - all things have We (Allah*) explained in detail”. Wrong. A lot of things are not explained in detail - f. ex. Muslim laws have had to be supplemented with many more paragraphs than the ones in the Quran and in Hadith - and still Muslim law are far from perfect concerning modern life and societies, and even concerning daily life. And just? - A man telling that a woman has behaved indecently is lying to Allah according to Allah and the Quran, if he cannot produce 4 witnesses, THIS EVEN IF HE SPEAKS THE FULL TRUTH, AND THE OMNISCIENT ALLAH OF COURSE KNOWS THIS. And much worse: A raped woman is to be severely punished if she cannot produce 4 MEN to witness that it really was rape - normally absolutely impossible. (For one thing rape normally happens in hidden places, and for another: How many men will come forth to tell: “We saw that she was raped, but did not try to help her” - and then be strictly punished for that omission? Those two points in the Quran are the most horribly unjust and inhuman paragraphs we have ever seen or heard about in any civilized(?) law. Is sharia civilized? Is Allah good or/and just? Judge for yourself. For similar claims see 15/1 -16/89 – 24/34 – 26/2 – 27/1 – 36/69 - 43/2 – 44/2.

064 17/13a: "Every man's fate - - -". Allah has predestined everything. But see 17/13b just below.

065 17/13b: "Every mans fate - - -". In just this case it is likely Muhammad has forgotten about predestination, and refers to the claimed list of punishable sins versus good deeds, which he claimed would decide whether you will end in Paradise or Hell. He never even tried to explain how it was possible to combine full predestination with free will - and thus fair punishment for sins - for man, and Islam today admits they are unable to explain it. "But it must all the same be true, because it is said so in the Quran", is the unbelievable "explanation" (A6/141).

066 17/13c: "- - - We (Allah*) shall bring out for him (every man*) a scroll - - -". Why did an omniscient god need "paper"? And a god using something as primitive and time consuming as scrolls?!

067 17/14: "- - - record - - -". Why does an omniscient god need a record? Is he not enough reliable and need proofs to be believed?

068 17/15a: "- - - guidance - - -". See 7/192a above and 16/107 below..

069 17/15b: "- - - who goeth astray doth so to his own loss - - -". Even though Allah decides everything one does according to many places in the Quran?

070 17/15c: "- - - no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another - - -". NT: "Carry each others' burdens".

071 17/15d: “- - - nor would We (Allah*) visit with Our Wrath until We had sent a Messenger (to give warning)”. This Islam will have to prove - see 17/16b below. There f.x. are many catastrophes which come without a warning - the big tsunami f.x. killed two or three hundred thousand Muslims (and comparatively much fewer non-Muslims) without a warning.

072 17/15e: "- - - Our (Allah's*) Wrath - - -". Sometimes mentioned, never provably demonstrated.

073 17/16a: “When We (Allah*) decide to destroy a population - - -”. No comments. But a bloody god.

074 17/16b: “When We (Allah*) decide to destroy a population, We (first) send a definite order to those among them who are given the good things of this life (= the rich and/or leaders*) and yet transgress - - -”. This Islam will have to prove, because f. ex. many a natural catastrophe has happened absolutely without a warning - f.x. the tsunami which in December 2004 hit Muslims far, far harder than any other religion. We never heard that f.x. Malaysia or Sumatra or Ashe had received warnings.

075 17/16c: "- - - transgress - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code.

076 17/16d: "- - - true - - -". See 2/2b above.

077 17/16e: "- - - We (Allah*) destroy them (sinful populations*) utterly". A bloody god - and a nice idol for a war religion and its wars and warriors (they have been pretty bloody often both during and after the proper war - so also some of the pogroms.)

078 17/17a: “How many generations have We (Allah*) destroyed after Noah?” Allah has killed so many generations that he is not sure of the number. And it is a question of killing (destroying), not of natural death. Yahweh who just made room for Israel/the Jews to let them have their own small country + helped them a little now and then, hardly is even in the same killing league as Allah. And also he is outdated, as the new covenant is peaceful, whereas Allah is still going strong in the war and killing business - Yahweh not much of a competitor for Allah in the killing fields.

079 17/17b: "- - - Noah - - -". A historical anomaly.

080 17/17c: "- - - (- - - sins) - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code. We also may mention that just this word often covers very different deeds, acts, words, and thoughts in the Quran and Islam, than in more normal religions (Islam is a religion of war - in spite of its loud slogans), not to mention how much its meaning in the Quran often differs from the basic of all human moral; "do against others like you want others do against you". Read the surahs from Medina and weep.

081 17/18a: "If any do wish for transitory things (of this life), We (Allah*) readily grant them - - -". This simply is not true. There are millions of people living in poverty wishing a little more for the daily life, without getting it. And there are millions more not quite as poor longing for a little luxury, and gets nothing. And even millions more who do need this or that - and getting nothing. (And remember this verse also talks about non-Muslims*).

082 17/18b: Verse 18 is Muhammad's standard "explanation", an explanation you meet in variations many times in the Quran, for why many non-Muslims have a good life, whereas many Muslims have a miserable one: It is Allah who has decided it like this. It at the same time is one of Muhammad's standard "explanations" for why many did not believe him and his new religion: They were bad quality people who wanted riches in this life. But in both Cases: They will be punished in the end, and you will be better off. Psychology - Muhammad was intelligent and understood human nature.

083 17/18c: "- - - in the end have We (Allah*) provided Hell for them (sinners*) - - -". See 3/77b above.

084 17/19a: "- - - the Hereafter - - -". The next life.

085 17/19b: "- - - they (good Muslims*) are the ones whose striving is acceptable (to Allah)".If Allah exists. And if he has sent down the Quran. And if the Quran tells only the plain and full truth.

086 17/19c: "- - - they (the good Muslims*) are the ones whose striving is acceptable (to Allah)". But if now Allah does not exist - and too much indicates that (f.x. the fact that the Quran is from no god) - will then a religion built on Muhammad's war ideology, ethical and moral codes, etc., make them acceptable for another god if there all the same is a next life? - f.x. Yahweh?

087 17/20: "- - - the bounties of thy (Muslims'*) Lord (Allah*) - - -". This expression is used for nearly everything; what you gain from work or trade, your share of the loot from raids or wars which always are called Jihad if non-Muslims are involved, the never proved promises for luxury in a next life.

088 17/21a: "See how We (Allah*) have bestowed more on some than on others; but verily the Hereafter is more in rank and graduation and more in excellence". The old problem: Why do many non-Muslims have a good life, whereas we Muslims often are poor? (This was before Muslims were strong enough to steal themselves wealthy.) Simply because Allah in his limitless wisdom had decided thing so, "but do not mind; you will get a much better reward in the promised next life". Promises for luxury in a claimed next life are very cheap in this life.

089 17/21b: "See how We (Allah*) have bestowed more on some than on others; but verily the Hereafter is more in rank and graduation and more in excellence". But we are back to the unavoidable fact: This only can be - can be - true if Allah exists and is a god.

090 17/21c: "- - - verily - - -". See 2/2b above.

091 17/22a: "Take not with Allah another object of worship - - -". See 25/18a below.

092 17/22b: "Take not with Allah another object of worship, or thou (O man!) wilt sit in disgrace and destitution". If Allah exists. And if he has sent down the Quran. And if the Quran tells only the plain and full truth. Also see 25/18a above. And if not f.x. Yahweh - if he exists - decides something else.

093 17/23a: "Thy (peoples'*) Lord (Allah*) hath decreed - - -". This does not matter unless Allah exists and is a major god.

094 17/23b: “Thy Lord (Allah*) hath decreed that ye worship none but Him - - -". Contradicted by the Bible which tells you should worship none but Yahweh. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

095 17/23c: “Thy Lord (Allah*) hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents.” This last part actually is strongly contradicted by 6/151 which prohibits you from being kind to your parents. (We honestly think the words in 6/151 represent an accident during f. ex. the Uthman’s edition of the book. But it is a clear and strong contradiction - and how many more "accidents" are there in the Quran?).

6/151: This is a really strange contradiction: “Come, I (Muhammad*) will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from – - (to*) - - be good to your parents - - -.” Read it once more: You are prohibited from being good to your parents!! – the opposite of what is said everywhere else in the book and contradicts it strongly. The Muslim sources we have found, all agree on that this is wrong – and actually we agree with them – this is so far out of the Quran’s style, that it must have been an accident and wrong. (It also in the same verse is prohibited "not to kill your children" if you are poor - also an obvious mistake and contradiction of the rest of the Quran).

But this means that here you have a (actually 2) clear mistake(s) in the Quran – certified by Islam as a mistake – to serve for free to any Muslim or non-Muslim claiming that the book is perfect and without mistakes “to the last comma”. Just ask them if they have ever red 6/151? (And ask if they are aware of that the comma did not exist in Arab when the Quran was written around 650 AD).

And: When this is wrong – how much more is wrong in the book?

It may have meaning, though, if the Quran here had been talking about "infidel" parents, but the book here is not doing so - and actually Muhammad said you should be kind to your parents even if they were non-Muslims. But we include:

9/23: “Take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith (= if they are not Muslims).

58/22: “Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons - - -.” (You find similar rules in extreme sects even today. The rationale behind such rules, is to cut as many as possible of sources of balanced or correcting information, to hinder that the one-sided propaganda from the sect is contradicted and nullified by facts.)

These are ugly verses. But as it is possible to be superficially kind to your parents (only superficially, as the main thing that counts for many parents – the love from their children – is gone), even if you are prohibited from loving them, this is a borderline case. We include it partly because it is so ugly and inhuman and tells so much about extreme sects and religions like Islam, and partly because it in reality is nearly impossible to be really kind to them if you are ordered to keep them away from you as humans.)

096 17/24a: "- - - lower them the wing - - -". An Arab expression meaning take care of, defend. Nice - but would a god for all the world use expressions only Arabs understood? An Arabism.

097 17/24b: "- - - thy (Allah's*) Mercy - - -". See 1/1a above.

098 17/25a: "Thy Lord (Allah*) knoweth best what is in your hearts - - -". See 2/233h above.

099 17/25b: "- - - deeds of righteousness - - -". Beware that the Quran here compare to its own rather "special" and partly immoral moral code.

100 17/25c: "- - - verily - - -". See 2/2b above.

101 17/25d: "- - - He (Allah*) is Most Forgiving - - -". See 1/1a above.

102 17/25e: "- - - He (Allah*) is Most Forgiving - - -".

103 17/26a: One of the good points in Islam - for after all there are a few good points, too - is the insistence on helping the poor. There are some very telling aspects to this side of Islam, though:

1. The one and only reason given for such kindness to others, is to gain merit with Allah. In many other religions the main point is empathy with the ones in difficulties - and the merit in Heaven is just a welcome extra plus. In the Quran "I" - my gaining of merit - am/is the central person/thing and the one moral reason. In f.x. the NT the care for and empathy with fellow humans is in the center for the moral behind your act, and the merit with Yahweh just a good, but after all secondary reason. You do not have to be much of a philosopher to see there is quite a difference here - but then all philosophy in Islam finally died in 1095 AD with the famous and infamous book against philosophy - thinking new thoughts - "The Incoherence of the Philosophers" by "the greatest Muslim after Muhammad", al-Ghazali, after a long starvation (well, it lingered on for about 100 more years in the far west - but from then on there came not one single new idea or new thought which could benefit man until far into the 20th century from all the Islamic world). To say the least of it: There is a moral difference between: "I help others because I benefit from it", and: "I help others because I feel empathy with them".

2. In Islam also you gain just the same merit from helping your own nearest family - wife and children and other close relatives - as from helping strangers. Then why help strangers? - at least not until your family has got everything they need. In many other religions to help your nearest is a duty and a matter of course, and only to help the ones outside your nearest family are genuinely good deeds. This difference in the roots of the moral thinking may be one of the reasons why NGO help organizations are weaker in Muslim areas than many other places. To quote Turks after a really bad earthquake some years ago: "From where did we get help when we really needed it? Not from our Muslim brothers, but from the West - even from (their partly enemy*) Greece!" (This was one of the arguments in Turkey for wanting into Europe. It seems to be difficult though - anti-EU in Turkey names the European reluctance to accept Turkey as a member in EU with bad names, but the real reasons are genuine fear for Islam's aggressive sides and as genuine fear and honest distaste for too many of Islam's ethical and (im)moral ideologies - Europe paid a terrible price to get rid of Nazism, and not a little to make an end to Fascism and Communism and helped with ending Apartheid - they are very reluctant to accepting a new and very strong ideology built on the same kind of elitism ("are non-Muslims worth half of a Muslim or less" - modern Pakistani scholars. "Islam shall be the dominant religion and all others be suppressed and pay zakat (extra tax*) with willing submission" - the Quran. Etc.). But that is another debate.

3. In Islam the duty to help other only exists for the ones who can afford it - do not use too much of your wealth for helping others ("squander not (your wealth) - - - (like*) - - - a spendthrift" to quote just this verse in the Quran, and in the next - 17/27 - "Verily spendthrifts are brothers of the Satans - - -" ). In f.x. NT the central question only is: "Does he/she need help?" and "Love your fellow human" - see f. ex. the story about the old widow and the small coin (Mark. 12/41-44). In Islam "I" am the central one again, in NT the central words are "Love" and "Fellow humans" (the word "love" hardly exists in the Quran, except in connection to members of your closest family). Also here are fundamental differences in the ideology behind the basics of the moral and ethics.(Actually the quoted words are very telling about the difference on these points between the Quran and NT - Allah and Yahweh so definitely are not the same god - - - and Muhammad and Jesus as surely not from the same line of prophets, as their moral and their teachings are too different. (To be from the same line of prophets, every new prophet has to build on what the former prophets in the line said and thought and did - Muhammad thus does not belong in Yahweh's line of prophets/messengers (in addition to that he was no real prophet - he had not the gift of being able to make prophesies.)

104 17/26b: "- - - but squander not (your wealth) (on helping others*) in the manner of spendthrift. Verily spendthrifts are brothers of the Satans - - -". The only possible meaning here, is that if you use too much of your possessions to help others, you are sinning against Allah (squandering his gifts?). The abyss here between the Quran and NT is immense - see f.x. the story about the widow's offering (Mark 12/42-43). Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus and Muhammad in the same line? A clear no to both.

105 17/27 "Verily - - -". See 2/2b above.

106 17/28: "- - - the Mercy of thy (Muslims'*) Lord (Allah*) - - -". See 1/1a above.

107 17/29: Do not be a niggard when someone needs help, but also not the opposite - follow "the middle way" - similar to a central Buddhist slogan.

108 17/29: Do not be a niggard when someone needs help, but also not the opposite - follow "the middle way" - help if you in a reasonable way can afford it. Jesus' message was: If someone needs help, then help if you can. There is a marked difference here. Also see Mark 12/42-43.

109 17/30a: "Verily - - -". See 2/2b above.

110 17/30b: "Verily thy (Muslims'/Muhammad's*) Lord (Allah*) doth provide sustenance - - -". Allah gives you everything, according to the Quran. Rather similar to 11/7a above.

111 17/30c: "Verily thy (Muslims'/Muhammad's*) Lord (Allah*) doth provide sustenance in abundance to whom he pleaseth - - -". When someone is richer than you, it is because Allah in his deep wisdom for some reason has decided it so.

112 17/30d: "For He (Allah*)doth know - - - all His servants". See 2/233h above.

113 17/31a: "Kill not your children for fear of want - - -". We have not seen information indicating that children were killed because of poverty in Arabia - though it may have counted some of the few times when the parents decided to kill a newborn unwanted daughter.

114 17/31b: "Verily - - -". See 2/2b above.

115 17/31c: "Verily the killing of them (unwanted babies*) is a great sin". One of the good things Muhammad did, was to put an end to this custom. Even though science - included Muslim such - agrees on that it did not happen often (Muslims overstated a lot to sully their opponents) - perhaps mainly in connection with some religious ceremonies - every case of murder is one too much, also when the victims are babies.

116 17/32: "Nor com neigh to adultery - - -". But to rape captives or slaves or bought concubines is "good and lawful”. Not to mention to keep a harem of willing or unwilling women. One of the many distasteful (or stronger) cases of "double moral" in the Quran - aspects of Islam which makes it disliked (and with a reason). Not to mention to keep a harem of willing or unwilling women.

117 17/33a: "Nor take life - - - except for just cause". Some contrast to NT's clear message: "You shall not kill". Especially since there are many "just causes" in Islam. One of the clear differences between the Quran and NT - and between Jesus and Muhammad (between Jesus and Muhammad the difference when it came to killing, was extreme - not only not in the same line, but not even on the same continent).

118 17/33b: "And if anyone is slain wrongfully (it is clear from the Arab word used here - "zulm" (actually the full expression is "qutila mazluman") is not used in connection to accidents), We (Allah*) have given his (females not mentioned*) heir authority (to demand punishment/revenge (the Arab word here "quisa" may be translated with fair revenge or fair punishment or similar*) or forgive) - - -". But the Arab word here translated with heir - "wali" have several meanings, like "protector" etc. From this f. ex Zamakhshari means it also may include the government = the judicial system. (But this is not clearly said, and in several Muslim countries it is the killed person's family/heir who has the last word as to whether a death sentence is to be executed or not.)

119 17/33c: "- - - wrongfully - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code.

120 17/33d: "- - - let him not exceed the bounds in the matter of taking lives, for he is helped - - -". It is unclear who "he" is - as so often the language in the Quran is not distinct. Most scholars think it is the victim who shall not be too angry, as he is revenged on Earth and get special treatment by Allah (all murder victims do as they were robbed of the possibility to make amends and pray for forgiveness)- f.x. Rezi. But some think "he" is the heir of the victim who should not exceed reasonable revenge. Clear language in the Quran, like so often.

121 17/33e: "- - - for he (see 17/33c just above*) is helped". By whom? Also this is unclear - some translators say by the law, others say by Allah. As shown many times, the language in the Quran often is unclear - sometimes very unclear and on essential points (in stark contradiction to what lay Muslims claim).

122 17/34: "Come not neigh to an orphan's property - - -". Muhammad's care for orphans - perhaps because he was one himself - is one of the sympathetic sides of the Quran. There is one bad point though: A man with an orphan young girl in his house - it is too easy for him to marry her (for lust or for her money if she has inherited something).

123 17/35a: "Give full measure - - -" Honesty in business is another positive demand in the Quran. But again there is a "dark spot on the linen": There are verses in the Quran clearly indicating that it counts more not to cheat Muslims than others.

124 17/35b: "- - - in the final determination". At the Day of Doom.

***125 17/36a: "And pursue not that of which you (Muslims*) have not knowledge - - -". And the most essential thing not to pursue, is knowledge which can make you doubt Islam - true or not. In the old times when Islam really fought science and knowledge until the finally destroyed it in 1095 AD, the question was not if the knowledge was right or wrong - only if it was Islamic or not. "Idle curiosity" is bad. (But the language in the Quran is far from clear; some translators mean this means you shall not listen to rumors, etc. - an aspect Muslims with all their conspiracy theories may be should remember?)

0126 17/36b: "- - - knowledge - - -". See 26/83a below.

127 17/36c: ("- - - the Day of Reckoning"). The Day of Doom.</>a

128 17/38a: "- - - evil - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code.

129 17/38b: "- - - hateful in the sight of thy (Muslim's*) Lord (Allah*)". Of no consequence if he does not exist.

130 17/39a: "- - - wisdom, which thy Lord (Allah*) has revealed to thee (Muhammad*)". Was it really revealed? - and in case by whom or what?

131 17/39b: "- - - thee (Muhammad*)". A historical anomaly.

132 17/39c: "Take not, with Allah, another object of worship - - -". See 28/15a below.

133 17/39d: "Take not, with Allah, another object of worship, lest thou shouldst be thrown into Hell - - -". If Allah exists. If he sent the Quran. If the Quran tells only the plain and full truth. And if the "other object" is not a true god. (In the last case may be he does not like your praying to Allah - a not proved god).

134 17/39e: "- - - blameworthy - - -". See 17/39c just above.

135 17/39f: "- - - rejected - - -". See 17/39c above.

136 17/40a: "Has then your Lord (O Pagans!) preferred for you sons, and taken for Himself (al-Lah/Allah*) daughters - - -?" The angels and the central goddesses al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat, were reckoned to be the daughters of al-Lah (renamed to Allah by Muhammad) in the old Arabia. In a strictly masculine society Muhammad obviously thought it was a heavy and killing argument that as all men wanted sons and not daughters, it was unthinkable that a god should want daughters! Any god had known that in many cultures the religion you would meet "mother" goddesses and there this argument was laughable or at least invalid, and used universal arguments instead - at least if he wanted the religion to be universal.

137 17/40b: "Truly - - -". See 2/2b above.

138 17/40c: "Truly you (pagans*) utter the most dreadful saying (that Allah had daughters*)!" If nothing else, this - claiming that Allah had daughters, not sons, was most dreadful - tells miles about Muhammad's and the Quran's view on women and their value.

139 17/41a: "We (Allah*) have explained (things) in various (ways) in this Quran - - - but it only increases their (non-Muslims) flight (from the Truth)!" Sometimes explanations make also mistakes more obvious and easy to see.

140 17/41b: "We (Allah*) have explained (things) in various (ways) in this Quran - - - but it only increases their (non-Muslims) flight (from the Truth)!" Untrue facts, claims, and "explanations" have a strong negative effect on the ones able to see through the untruths.

141 17/41c: "- - - receive admonition". Not possible unless Allah exists and is a god.

142 17/41d: “- - - their flight (from the Truth)!” The skeptics fled from the new religion just because too many of them saw it hardly was the truth. Too much was wrong.

143 17/41e: “- - - their flight (from the Truth)!” At best from partly true, never proved statements - the Quran at best is only partly true. Also remember that mistakes do not become truer even if they are repeated often. This also goes for a word like "true" - though according to Joseph Goebbels (Nazi "Minister of Propaganda"): "If you repeat a lie often enough, people start believing it" Also see 13/1g above.

144 17/42a: “If there had been (other) gods with Him (Allah*) - - - behold, they would certainly have sought out a way to the Lord of the Throne”. Wrong – it is a possibility, but very far from a certainty. F.x. hierarchies are possible, or splitting of power. Invalid claim and logic. Similar claim in 21/22.

145 17/42b: "- - - certainly - - -". See 2/2b above.

146 17/43a: "Glory to Him (Allah*)!". Please read 1/1a and see if you agree.

147 17/43b: "He (Allah*) is high above all that they say! - Exalted and Great (beyond measure)!" We may remind you that when you read the Quran, you should read the claims, deeds, etc., not the glorious words. The demands and deeds and introduced rules are reliable - the glorious words are cheap and may be propaganda. Read 1/1a above and see if you agree to this verse.

148 17/43c: "He (Allah*) is high above all that they say! - Exalted and Great (beyond measure)!" Similar often claimed, never proved.

*149 17/44a: “The seven heavens - - -”. There are no seven heavens. See 10/6e above. All the same you find these claims about 7 heavens/firmaments/tracts in 2/29d+e, 17/44a, 23/17a, 23/86a, 41/12a+b, 65/12a, 67/3a+b and 71/15a+b - all together the Quran mentions "heavens" in plural at least 199 times; there is no doubt the Quran means there are 7 heavens (and as the stars are fastened to the lowermost of them - f. x. 67/5a - they have to be material ones - if not the stars could not be fastened to it). In 67/3 you also are told they are places one above the other, which means they of course are built successively higher above the Earth - which also is clear from most places in the Quran where the place of the heavens are indicated. Some modern Muslims try to place the heavens in space, deep space included. But among others 67/3 prohibits this, as "up" and "down" ("one above the other") has no meaning as part of the real space.

By the way: 67/12b also claims there are 7 Earths, and gives their names according to Islam.

150 17/44b: "The seven heavens and the earth, declare his glory - - -". Animism - normally found in primitive religions.

151 17/44c: "- - - all beings therein (heavens and earth), declare his glory - - -". With the exception of the sentient beings: Anthropomorphism - normally found in primitive religions.

152 17/44d: "The seven heavens and the earth, and all beings therein, declare his glory - - -". See 17/44c just below.

153 17/44e: “- - - there is not a thing but celebrates (= all things celebrates*) His (Allah’s*) praise - - -”. This Islam will have to prove - it is an unlikely statement built on no obvious fact(s).

154 17/44f: "Verily - - -". See 2/2b above.

155 17/44g: "(Allah*)is Oft-Forbearing, Most Forgiving!" Please read the surahs from Medina and the most unjust of his (?) sharia laws and see if you agree. That a claim is repeated many times, does not make it true - though it may make people start believing it; just ask the Nazi Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels: "Repeat a lie often enough, and people will start believing it."

156 17/44h: "(Allah*)is Oft-Forbearing, Most Forgiving!" He can forgive no-one unless he exists.

157 17/45a: "When thou (Muslims*) dost recite the Quran, We (Allah*) put - - -". Back to the old fact: Allah can do nothing unless he exists - and if he exists, but belong to the dark forces, be a bit careful with what you permit him to do. As mentioned before: He at least is no god if he is behind the Quran - too much is wrong in that book.

158 17/45b: "When thou (Muslims*) dost recite the Quran, We (Allah*) put, between you and those who believe not in the Hereafter, a veil invisible". If Allah does not exist and thus is unable to put up a veil, may be a real god does so if any exists - except for War gods, he/she/they might not be interested in souls from war and apartheid religions.

159 17/45c: "- - - those who believe not in the Hereafter - - -". Most religious people believe in a next life (though the old Arabs are said not to put much stress on that part of the religion - an Arabism perhaps? See 4/13d above.)

160 17/45d: "- - - those who believe not in the Hereafter - - -". One of Muhammad's many negative - to Muslims - names for non-Muslims.

***161 17/46a: "And We (Allah*) put coverings over their (unbelievers*) hearts (and minds) lest they should understand the Quran - - -". Yahweh/Jesus in NT and the New Covenant would never - never - hide "the narrow road" to paradise for anyone at all, except for very special reasons. Allah and Yahweh the same god? Just you believe it! - not unless the god is at least schizophrenic, and strongly so."

162 17/46b: "- - - thou (Muhammad*) dost - - -". A historical anomaly.

163 17/46c: “- - - (the unbelievers*) turn on their backs, fleeing - - - ". Already at that time a lot of people saw that the Quran has lots and lots of mistakes - f.x. the Jews (there were few Christians in the area). Muhammad and his followers pretended - and some may even have believed - different "explanations" why the Jews refused to believe in Muhammad The real and simple reason was that they knew the OT and saw something was very wrong.

164 17/46d: “- - - (the unbelievers*) turn on their backs, fleeing (from the Truth)”. At most from what is partly the truth, as the Quran has lots and lots of mistakes. Also see 13/1g above and 40/75 below.

165 17/47a: "We (Allah*) know best why it is they listen - - -". Allah knows absolutely everything, according to the Quran. Why then must he test people - and this question even more so if he is omnipotent and predestines all you think and do like the Quran claims MANY places.

166 17/47b: "- - - the wicked say, "Ye (Muslims*) follow none other than a man bewitched - - -". May be they were not wicked, but wise; in the old days people with mental disorders often were believed to be bewitched - invaded by a bad spirit. Modern medical science says there is a strong chance Muhammad had TLE (Temporal Lobe Epilepsy) - an illness which may give exactly the symptoms Muhammad is told to have had.

167 17/47c: "- - - the wicked (opponents of Muhammad*) - - -". A historical anomaly.

168 17/47d: "- - - the wicked (opponents of Muhammad*) say: "Ye (Muslims*) follow - - -". How could this end up in the claimed "Mother Book" (of which the Quran is a copy according to Muhammad) billions of years before it was said or happened? One more of the many texts or quotes in the Quran which could not have been reliably written into the claimed "Mother Book" (13/39b, 43/4b+c, 85/21-22) in Heaven (of which the Quran is claimed to be a copy) eons ago, unless predestination was and is 100% like the Quran claims many places (if you look, you will find more cases than we mention - we only mention some of the obvious ones). If man has free will - even partly only (an expression some Muslims use to flee from the problem full predestination contra free will for man (and also contra that there is no meaning in praying to Allah for help, if everything already is predestined in accordance with a plan "nobody and nothing can change" - a problem which Muslims seldom mention), and an expression no Muslim we have met has ever defined) - and can change his mind, full and reliable clairvoyance about the future, not to mention the distant future, is impossible even for a god, as the man always could/can change his mind or his words once more, in spite of Islam's claims. There are at least 3 reasons - 2 of them unavoidable - for this:

When something is changed, automatically the future is changed.

The laws of chaos will be at work and change things, if even a tiny part is made different.

The so-called "Butterfly Effect"; "a butterfly flapping its wing in Brazil may cause a storm in China later on" or "a small bump may overturn a big load".

This that Allah predestines everything like the Quran claims and states many places, is an essential point, because besides totally removing the free will of man (in spite of the Quran's claims of such free will, or some Muslims' adjusted "partly free will for man" - to adjust the meanings where the texts in the Quran are wrong, is typical for Islam and its Muslims) - it also removes the moral behind Allah's punishing (and rewarding) persons for what they say and do - Allah cannot reward or punish people for things he himself has forced them to say or do, and still expect to be believed when he (Muhammad?) claims to be a good or benevolent or moral or just god. Also see 2/51b and 3/24a above.

And as mentioned above, full predestination also makes prayers to Allah meaningless, as everything already is predestined according to Allah's Plan - a Plan which no prayer ("nobody and nothing") can change.

Also see 3/154e, 6/149a, 7/34a, and 14/22b above.

169 17/48a: "- - - they (non-Muslims*) have gone astray". Only if Allah exists, if he is behind the Quran, and if the Quran in addition tells the full truth and only the truth. If they then believe in a real god, they are not astray.

170 17/48b: "- - - never can they (non-Muslims*) find a way (to salvation*)". Well, they can f.x. try "the narrow road" to Yahweh - he at least has proved his existence and some power if the old books tells the truth, whereas Allah never has proved anything at all.

171 17/49a: "They (non-Muslims*) say (to Muhammad*) - - -". A historical anomaly.

172 17/49b: "They (non-Muslims*) say (to Muhammad*): 'What! When we are - - -". See 17/47d above.

173 17/49c: "What! When we (humans*) are reduced to bones and dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new creation?". It is said that the old Arabs did not value the next life much, but at least they knew it existed in many religions - it was no surprise to them. But Islam claims that Allah picks up all the atoms and juices of your rot and nullified body and puts it all back to recreate you - though as a young person (nothing is said about fixing the body of handicapped or the mind of mentally retarded), and that was a bit much for the non-believers to believe. We must admit we find it somewhat unbelievably, too - but for another reason: Why! - why recreate the body, when a soul free from cumbersome bones and meat are much freer? - and when mental and intellectual pleasures and experiences are much more fulfilling than bodily ones? May the reason be that in a primitive culture(?) like in the old Arabia, the bodily pleasures were the only ones rough warriors really knew and were able to picture? - and to experience bodily pleasures one needed bodies. Is the explanation for bodily recreation simply that Muhammad needed "carrots" his primitive and self centered (f. ex. unable to feel empathy with their victims or with women they raped) rough bunches of warriors were able to visualize?

174 17/50: "Say (Muhammad*) - - -". A historical anomaly.

175 17/50-51: "- - - be ye (non-Muslims*) stones or iron, or (the*) created matter which, in your minds is (the*) hardest (to be raised up (as a human being*) - yet ye shall be raised up!". Muhammad is boasting that no matter how difficult you will be to resurrect, Allah is able to do so.

176 17/51a: "Then will they (non-Muslims*) say (to Muhammad*) - - -". A historical anomaly.

177 17/51b: "Then will they (non-Muslims*) say (to Muhammad*): 'Who will cause us to - - -". See 17/47d above.

178 17/51c: "He Who created you first!" Here it is indicated Allah, but as the Quran is not from a god - too many mistakes, etc. - this claim is unreliable, especially as even the existence of Allah is unclear. There is nowhere any valid indication for that he exists. Also see 7/158i above and 21/56c below.

179 17/51d: "May be it will be quite soon!" This is a method used by we thing all religions: You do not say that the Day of Doom will be soon, but you tell the congregations that may be it will be soon, so they should behave accordingly. The natural reaction for very many, is that "you never know - best to behave so as to be prepared if something happens". "It is difficult to foretell, especially about the future", to quote the Dane Storm P. And then they behave themselves according to the religion - - - and according to the leader's wishes.

180 17/52a: "- - - on a Day when He (Allah*) will call you - - -". = The Day of Doom.

181 17/52b: "- - - on a Day when He (Allah*) will call you - - -". If he exists and calls you, you had better make sure he is a god, and do not belong to the dark forces - any god would have no problems proving he was a god, whereas f.x. a devil could have problems with such a proof - and not a thing is proved concerning Allah.

182 17/52c: (YA2236): Is this verse part of the answer to the skeptic in the previous verse? Or is it a separate, proud statement to Muslims. Who knows?

183 17/52d: "- - - and ye (humans*) think that ye tarried but a little while (in the grave*)". Remember this when you meet claims about punishment in the grave in the Hadiths. For one thing there is no time for such punishment, as the dead ones do not know of the time passing, and for another the phenomenon is not mentioned in the Quran. This seems to be one of the made up themes in the Hadiths.</>

184 17/53a: "- - - My (Allah's*) servants - - -". = Muslims.

185 17/53b: "- - - (Muslims*) should (only) say those things that are best - - -". Yahweh tells that his followers should only say what is true.

186 17/54a: "It is your (Muhammad's*) Lord (Allah*) who knoweth you best - - -". According to the Quran Allah knows absolutely everything, included your innermost thoughts. (But all the same he has to test you - nobody can give a good explanation why - "explanations" yes, explanations no."

187 17/54b: “- - - If He (Allah*) please, He granteth you mercy, or if He please, punishment - - -”. No matter what outcome this sentence is sure to be right. Really a good sentence for f.x. Muhammad - always right no matter what happens. But it proves nothing.

188 17/54c: “We (Allah*) have not sent thee (Muhammad*) to - - -". A historical anomaly.

189 17/54d: “We (Allah*) have not sent thee (Muhammad*) to be a disposer of their (“infidels’”*) affairs for them”. Allah or Muhammad started to change his mind about this one year later – in 622 AD – when Muhammad started to gain enough military power to decide “their” religion for them. (In spite of what Islam likes to tell, Islam to a large degree was introduced by the sword – and by the wish for taking part in the looting/robbing/stealing, raping and slave taking – in Arabia). This verse is contradicted and often “killed” by at least these verses: 2/191, 2/193, 3/28, 3/85, 3/148, 4/81, 4/90, 5/33, 5/72, 5/73, 8/12, 8/38-39 (the warning), 8/39, 8/60, 9/3, 9/5, 9/14, 9/23, 9/29, 9/33, 9/73, 9/123, 25/36, 25/52, 33/61, 33/73, 35/36, 47/4, 66/9. This includes many advising or permitting political, social, economical, etc. compulsion (with the sword in the background if you protest) – we mention a few here: 3/28, 3/85, 3/148, 4/81, 5/72, 5/73, 9/23, 14/7, 15/3, 33/73, 35/36. They are all quoted under 2/256. (At least 29 contradictions).

190 17/54e: “We (Allah*) have not sent thee (Muhammad*) to be a disposer of their (“infidels’”*) affairs for them”. Or does it mean (A17/62): "We (Allah*) have not sent thee (Muhammad*) charged with responsibility for their (people's*) conduct"? Or perhaps (translated from Swedish): "We (Allah*) have not sent thee (Muhammad*) with the power to determine their (peoples'*) fate"?The wonderfully clear and impossible to misunderstand language in the Quran - at least according to Muslims.

191 17/55a "And it is your Lord (Allah*) that knoweth best all beings in the heavens (plural and wrong*) and on earth - - -". The old and unavoidable question: If he exists? - and if he is a god?

192 17/55b "And it is your Lord (Allah*) that knoweth best all beings in the heavens (plural and wrong*) and on earth - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which says Yahweh knows best, not Allah. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

193 17/55c "It is your Lord (Allah*) that knoweth best all beings in the heavens (plural and wrong*) and on earth - - -". If he then on top predestines everything like the Quran repeatedly claims, then why - why - does he have to test anybody at all? The logic does not add up - not unless it was Muhammad who needed an "explanation" for hardship and for his repeated calls to raids and war."

194 17/55d: "- - - heavens - - -". Plural and wrong. See 10/6e above.

195 17/55e: “We (Allah*) gave David (the gift of) the Psalms”. According to science the psalms are a lot younger than King David – at least most of them. A god had known.

196 17/55f: “We (Allah*) gave David (the gift of) the Psalms”. According to the Bible, the god of David was Yahweh, not Allah.

197 17/55g: "- - - David - - - Psalms - - -". Historical anomalies.

#198 17/56a: "Say (Muhammad*) - - -". A historical anomaly.

199 17/56b: "- - - they (other gods*) have neither the power to remove your troubles from you nor to change them". This may be correct, but a deep question never even mentioned neither in the Quran, nor in Hadiths, nor anywhere else in Islam as far as we have seen, is: If Allah predestines everything, and often years before like the Quran states, and if nothing can change his decisions and Plan: Why then pray to Allah for help in troubles at all? - nothing can change his decisions anyhow, so prayers for such changes are just so much wasted time. This fact is never mentioned by mullahs, etc., so we have never seen how they explain it away.

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are thought that a question or problem can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not, many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. In cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1) Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other.)

200 17/56c: "- - - they (other gods*) have neither the power to remove your troubles from you nor to change them". This may be correct, but another deep question never answered by anything but fast talk and loose, never documented claims, is if Allah is any stronger. There has never in 1400 years come one single proof neither for his existence, nor for his power. All Islam rests only on a book full of not verified claims and lots and lots of mistaken facts and other errors, contradictions, invalid logic, etc. - a book dictated by a man with a very dubious moral and as dubious ethics. (The real and historical Muhammad - even like you find him in central Islamic litterateur - is very different from the glossy semi-saint Muslims boast about and cherish.)

201 17/57a: "Those (false gods, saints or similar*) whom they (non-Muslims) do desire (for themselves) means of access to their Lord (Allah*) - - -". As for saints this may or may not be true. But for made up gods it is wrong - made up gods in reality does not exist, and thus has no wishes at all (the Quran claims that pictures of them in wood, metal or something are given life at the Day of Doom - it is free for anybody to believe it). This also goes for Allah if he is a made up god.

202 17/57b: "Those whom they (non-Muslims) do desire (for themselves) means of access to their Lord (Allah*) - - -". This may only be correct if Allah exists and the Quran is correct and from Allah, and if they then do not pray to a real god. Especially if Allah or the Quran or both are made up, this is worth to beware of.

203 17/57c: "- - - His (Allah's*) Mercy - - -". See 1/1a above.

204 17/57d: "- - - the Wrath of your (human's*) Lord (Allah*) is something to take heed of". See 3/77b and 17/57b above.

205 17/58a: "There is not a population but We (Allah*) shall destroy it before the Day of Judgment - - -". Not at that day, but before. Benevolent and good god.

206 17/58b: "- - - or punish it (different populations) with a dreadful Penalty - - -". See 3/77b above.

207 17/58c: "- - - the (eternal) Record - - -" = in this case Allah's Plan. With other words: Allah has predestined and put into his book, and what is written there, is going to happen - no-one can change Allah's predestination and Plan. BUT WHY DOES AN OMNISCIENT GOD NEED A RECORD?

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#####208 17/59a: "And we (Allah refrain from sending Signs (Quran-speak for "proofs for Allah"), only because the men of former generations treated them as false - - -".

This is Muhammad's standard "explanation" for why Allah would not and Muhammad himself was unable to give any real proofs for the existence of Allah or for Muhammad's connection to a god - Allah or someone else. And it is not a good one, as for one thing it obviously is not true:

There were stories both in the Bible and in the Quran - f.x. the sorcerers of Pharaoh Ramses II and Moses - about people believing in the performed miracles/real proofs (if true stories).

Muhammad knew about at least some of the stories about the miracles he performed, and how huge flocks of believers he got from the miracles.

It is not contra, but incompatible with, human nature and psychology that not a good percentage of the ones who witnessed real miracles/proofs would not come to believe.

Muhammad was intelligent and he understood people and how to manipulate them. He knew this. But he obviously was unable to find a better excuse - there are not many excuses which would work.

What is really strange, is that Muslims have not seen through this "explanation" centuries ago, and still are unable to do so.

This is a monument over the effect of brainwashing, of wishful thinking, of ability to refuse to see the obvious, of lack of ability/training in critical thinking, uncritical acceptance of authorities, and more. A monument over the weak point of the human brain.

There are some such cases in the Quran, the most prominent and serious may be the impossible combination of full predestination like the Quran states many places, and free will of man, and the as impossible combination of full predestination, and claims about any effect of prayers.

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#####209 17/59b: "And we (Allah refrain from sending Signs (Quran-speak for "proofs for Allah"), only because the men of former generations treated them as false - - -".

In this connection we quote Muhammad Asad: "The Message of the Quran" (a/17/71), translated from Swedish: "Several places the Quran stresses the fact that the Prophet Muhammad, in spite of being the last and greatest of Allah's messengers, did not have the permission to make signs or miracles similar to those earlier prophets are told to have made as confirmation of their verbal preaching". 

Worth remembering each time Muslims - often believing it honestly, because their mullahs, etc. have told them so - tell you about the miracles of Muhammad or try to use claims about his miracles as arguments or proofs for something.

210 17/59c: "- - - Signs - - -". There exist no signs documenting Allah.

211 17/59d: "We (Allah*) sent the She-camel to the Thamud - - -". The Thamud was a tribe who according to Arab folklore lived in Arabia in the old times (as Moses according to the Quran mentioned them, it must have been before ca. 1400 BC = at least 2ooo years before Muhammad). The camel refers to an old Arab legend about a camel who came out from a solid cliff and became a prophet (as this obviously is superstition, you meet many Muslims telling it was another camel, but no-one has a believable alternative story - a normal camel is not a sign from a god in a place where there are "millions" of camels).

212 17/59e: "- - - Thamud - - -". A historical anomaly.

213 17/59f: "- - - they (the Thamud*) treated her (the camel) wrongfully - - -". They killed it.

214 17/59g: “And We (Allah*) refrain from sending the Signs (real proofs*) only because the men of former generations treated them as false: We sent the She-camel to the Thamud to open their eyes - - -”. Thamud is the only example mentioned here – a tale “borrowed” from old Arab folk tales.

One thing is that we have never been able to understand how a camel could be a proof of Allah. (But actually the camel is part of an old Arab folk tale: It came out from a cliff and became a prophet for a god.) But just read the Bible – which the Quran “borrows” (and twists) many stories from – and you will see that real proof has effect (which is most natural). That it will have no effect just is fast-talk with somewhat bent logic and psychology – one of those any intelligent man knowing something about how people think and reacts was sure to know was untrue.

For one thing: To use something which was claimed to have happened, but more than 2ooo years before, is not valid without documentation.

For another: Muhammad himself used the miracles Moses according to the Quran made and told they made all the sorcerers of Pharaoh Ramses II become Muslims. 

For another: There had been several prophets in between - with Jesus as the star in this connection, but also f. ex. Paul - who made miracles people believed in and attracted followers.

This "explanation" is invalid also according to the Quran (contradicted). What is worse: It is one of the places it is clear Muhammad knew he was lying, as it is clear from the Quran that he at least knew about the miracles of both Muhammad and Jesus, and that these made people believe.

###215 17/59h “And We (Allah*) refrains from sending the Signs only because the men of former generations treated them as false- - -". But there is an interesting remark in Asad’s note and explanation (A 17/71 -: “His (Muhammad’s*) only miracle was and is the Quran itself”. This is an accepted fact among Muslim scholars and Islamic religious leaders. AND ALL THE SAME THEY CONTINUE AND CONTINUE TO TELL THEIR CONGREGATIONS ABOUT THE (MADE UP) MIRACLES CONNECTED TO MUHAMMAD THAT THE HADITHS TELL ABOUT – AND NOWHERE IN THE HADITH COLLECTIONS DO YOU FIND A WARNING THAT “THE QURAN PROVES THAT THESE MIRACLES ARE MADE UP LEGENDS. An honest religion? Honest “priests”? Honest professors? (These are among the reasons why it is impossible to rely on Islamic literature – you all the time know you have to check the “facts” before you can use the information (or disinformation or wishful thinking)).

Remember this whenever a Muslim will tell you about some of all the miracles they claim Muhammad performed. That he made no miracles at all, also is very clear from the fact that he had to explain away all requests for such ones - if he had made any miracle, he and his followers had informed about it loudly and often.

For the sake of record we quote the here relevant part of M. Asad's comment in full ones more, and now directly from English (on Internet): "In many places (not only here in 17/59*) the Quran stresses the fact that the Prophet Muhammad - - - was not empowered to perform miracles similar to those with which the earlier prophets are said to (and in some cases confirmed in the Quran*) have reinforced (NB: Muhammad claimed it would not reinforce his teaching*) their verbal (also Muhammad's were verbal - only written down afterwards*) messages. His only miracle was and is the Qur'an itself - - -". There has never existed one single Muslim scholar who did not know - and knows today - this. ALL THE SAME THEY HAIL MUHAMMAD'S CLAIMED MIRACLES AS PROOFS FOR HIS GOD AND HIS BEING A PROPHET IN SUCH WAYS THAT THE UNEDUCATED MASSES TO A LARGE DEGREE BELIEVE - YES, ARE SURE - THE MIRACLES IS A REALITY. An honest al-Taqiyya (lawful lie). But if the scholars, imams, ayatollahs lie about this to forward the religion, how much more do they lie about?

216 17/59i: "We (Allah*) only send the Signs by way of terror (and warning from evil). This perhaps was what Muhammad did with all his raids - mainly for looting and extortion, but later also for spreading Islam (continued by his successors). Terror and evil brought the message across many places.

217 17759J: Just for the record: The stories about the 'Ad, Thamud, Medianite, Rocky Tract, etc. tribes and the prophets Hud, Salih, and Shu'ayb are not from the Bible.

218 17/60a: "- - - thy Lord (Allah*) doth encompass mankind round about - - -". Allah knows everything and dominates man completely. Then why 2/233h and 35/38b?

219 17/60b: (YA2249): “We (Allah*) granted thee (Muhammad*) the Vision which We showed thee - - -.” A conundrum for Islam: Which vision? The big one to heaven? Or one of the many other claims? Not possible to know. A. Yusuf Ali has an interesting comment to this point: That “such visions are miracles, and become a stumbling block to unbelievers”. Has he forgotten that the Quran time and again and again tries to explain away the total lack of miracles connected to Muhammad, with that miracles would have no effect anyhow? But he is right – miracles had had a large effect if there had been as much as a single one. That explaining away of the lack of miracles, is one of the places where an intelligent man like Muhammad knew he was lying each and every time he said it. (But then al-Taqiyya is ok).YA also contradicts his own comment mentioned under 17/95b above.

220 17/60c: "- - - but as a trial for men - - -". Why does an omniscient, predestining god need to try humans?

221 17/60d: "- - - the Cursed Tree - - -". A tree called the zaqqum tree in Hell.

222 17/60e: "- - - it only increased their inordinate transgression". This is the "explanation". But the real reason may have been that they saw things were wrong - it is not difficult to see in the Quran, and it is claimed that the old prophets had similar books".

223 17/61a: "Behold We (Allah*) said to the angels: 'Bow down to Adam'". This is not from the Bible, and there is nothing even remotely similar there.

224 17/61b: "Behold We (Allah*) said to the angels: 'Bow down to Adam'". This is one of the many proofs for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god: In the Quran man is superior to angels. In the Bible the situation is not as clearly told as in the Quran, but angels clearly are "higher" than man. Which shows that Yahweh's angels are not the same as Allah's, and thus also that the Paradises are different (angels are an integrated part of Yahweh's Paradise, but are not mentioned in Allah's) are different. With marked different angels and very marked different Paradises, the two are not the same god.

225 17/61c: “- - - one (Adam*) whom Thou (Allah*) didst create from clay.” Wrong simply and plainly: One thing is that man was not created, but developed from earlier primates. But even if one is creationist, Adam could not be created in more than one way, and in the Quran you find no less the 13 different ways - or 5 - 7 if you lump some of them together. Solid contradictions. This claim also is contradicted by 6/2b (see this one), 7/12, 17/61, 32/7, 38/71, and 38/76 that tell man/Adam was made from clay, 15/26, 15/26, and 15/33 that tell man/Adam was made from sounding clay, 55/14 that tells man/Adam was made from ringing clay, 37/11 that tells man/Adam was made from sticky clay, 23/12, that tell man/Adam was made from essence of clay, 15/26, 15/28, and 15/33 that tell man/Adam was made from mud, 3/59, 22/5,35/11, 40/67, that tell man/Adam was made from dust, 20/55 that tells man/Adam was made from earth, 96/2 that tells man/Adam was made from a clot of congealed blood, 16/4, 75/37, 76/2, 80/19, that tell man/Adam was made from semen (without explaining from where the semen came), 21/30, 24/45, and 25/54 that tells man/Adam was made from water (NB! NB! Not in water, but from water!), 70/39 that tells man/Adam was made from “base material”: “But does not man call to mind that We (Allah*) created him out of nothing?” This contradicts all the other places in the Quran where it is told about the creation of man, and that tell that man/Adam was created out of some material or other, and not to mention the greatest contradiction in this case: 19/9 and 19/67 which both tell that man/Adam was created from nothing.

226 17/62: Here Iblis asks for respite to lead people astray, before Allah has ordered him unwanted. Most places in the Quran where this story is told, Iblis asks for this afterward. Quite a contradiction - An omniscient god had remembered how it happened and what was first and last - Iblis also had little reason for this request until he was thrown out. A small, but revealing contradiction. 

227 17/62 - 65: This is how Hell was made - and the ruling question here is: Allah could easily have denied Iblis/the Devil this - then what kind of god is Allah permitting or may be even having decided the whole thing (as Allah decides everything), permitting such torture and sadism? - especially if he predestines who are going to Hell and who not, like the Quran some places states. Also see 17/65 below. NB: This story is not from the Bible.

228 17/63a: "(Allah) said (to Iblis*): Go thy way - - -". See 17/62 above.

229 17/63b: "- - - verily - - -". See 2/2b above.

230 17/64a: Here Allah gives Iblis lots of permissions he easily could have denied him. What kind if "good and benevolent god" is this?

231 17/64b: "But Satan promises them (humans*) nothing but deceit". But is Allah any better? According to the Quran he accepts and uses dishonesty and deceit and even broken words/oaths (f.x. 2/225a, 5/89a+b, 16/91e, 16/92a+b, 66/2a), and besides there has till date not been reported one proved case of Allah keeping a promise. Claims, but never a proof.

232 17/65a: "- - - My (Allah's*) servants - - -". Good Muslims.

233 17/65b: "- - - enough is thy (Muhammad's/Muslims'*) Lord (Allah*) for a Disposer of affairs", Yes, but only if he exists and has power - and preferably do not belong to the dark forces.

234 17/66a: "Your (Muhammad's*) Lord (Allah*) is He that maketh the Ship go smoothly for you through the sea - - -". See 11/7a above.

235 17/66b: "(Allah is*) Most Merciful". As said other places: Read the surahs from Medina + the most unjust of his sharia laws and see if you agree.

236 17/67a: "- - - those that ye (non-Muslims*) call upon - besides Him (Allah*) - - -". See25/18a below.

237 17/67b: "- - - those that ye (non-Muslims*) call upon - besides Him (Allah*) - leave you in the lurch - - -". But in 1400 years there is not reported one single reliable case where Allah has done anything - not one thing at all, positive or negative. Is he any better?

238 17/67c: "- - - he brings you (non-Muslim*) back safe to land - - -". See 17/64b above.

239 17/67d: "- - - those that ye (non-Muslims*) call upon - besides Him (Allah*) - leave you in the lurch - - -". But as Allah's predestined Plan cannot be changed, what use is there to pray to Allah - the outcome is already determinated and impossible to change according to the Quran.

240 17/68: "Do ye then feel secure that He (Allah*) will not - - -". Four facts indicate that one is pretty secure: There never was a proof for Allah’s existence, there never was a proof for Allah's claimed power, it is very clear that the Quran is full of mistakes, and thus not from a god, and Allah has till now not done one single documented thing - positive or negative in 1400 years. Also see 3/77b above.

241 17/69: "Or do ye then secure that He (Allah*) will not - - -". Similar to 17/68 just above.

242 17/70a: "- - - sons of Adam - - -". All humanity.

243 17/70b: All this verse: See 11/7a above.

244 17/70c: "- - - Our (Allah*) Creation". See 6/2b, 7/158i, 11/7b above and 21/56c below.

245 17/71a: "One day - - -". Here: The day of Doom.

246 17/71b: (YA2266): “One day We (Allah) shall call together all human beings with their (respective) Imams - - -.” Once more an Arab word – “imam” - without a definite meaning, as it has many meanings. In this case it at least can mean: “- - - each People or Group will appear with its Leader.” Or: “- - - - the Imam = their revelation = the Quran”. Or: “- - - the Imam is the book of record of deeds (made by the angles*).” Simply more guesswork.

247 17/71c: "- - - those who were given their records - - -".The old question: Why does an omniscient god use records? - even in a situation like this it is needed only if the humans distrust him.

248 17/71d: "- - - those who were given their records in their right hand (will go to Heaven, whereas those who get it in their left hand go to Hell*) - - -". In the old Arabia the right side was the lucky side and the left the unlucky side. In addition there are all the cases where it does not matter what hand you receive anything with - which are the most cases. Say 25% chance for that superstition in Heaven is the same as in old Arabia? - if there is superstition in Heaven?. Another thing: Another place in the Quran it is told that the lucky ones get their paper from in front, whereas the unlucky ones get them from behind. Muslims explains that the unlucky ones get it into their left hand behind their back, etc. A bit special way of doing it, but ok, so much is wrong in the Quran, that it is not worth the time to debate a curiosity like this.

249 17/71e: "- - - they (the good Muslims*) will not be dealt with unjustly in the least". Not if Allah exists and the Quran is correct.

250 17/71f: "- - - (not*) dealt with unjustly - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses expressions like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code.

251 17/72a: "But those who were blind in this world - - -". If there are not mistakes in the Quran, the non-Muslims were blind. If there are mistakes, the Muslims were/are blind (as this means the book is not from a god). Indications are that they are doubly blind: Believing in a book not from a god, and too blind to see the facts.

252 17/72b: "- - - most astray from the Path". The same comments as in 17/72a just above.

253 17/72c: "- - - the Path - - -". The road to the Muslim Paradise.

254 17/73a: "- - - tempt thee (Muhammad*) - - -". A historical anomaly.

255 17/73b: “- - - that (the Quran*) which We (Allah*) had revealed - - -”. A book with so many mistakes, etc. like you find in the Quran, is not from a god.

256 17/73c: “- - - that (the Quran*) which We (Allah*) had revealed unto thee (Muhammad*)”. As no book of a quality like the Quran is from any god, also no god has sent it to Muhammad.

257 17/73d: "- - - substitute in Our (Allah's*) name something quite different (another god*) - - -". A bad idea if Allah exists and the Quran has no mistakes so that you practice the religion correctly. An idea of no consequence if both Allah and the other god do not exist, or if Islam is so twisted that a good and benevolent god will not accept Muslims (it is most difficult to believe that a good and benevolent and just god will accept to be the god of a war religion which on top of is based on mistreatment of victims and on lies (al-Taqiyya, Kitman), broken promises/oats, a partly immoral moral code, etc., etc.) But a good idea if Allah and the Quran are made up, but the other god is real. Not to mention if Allah is from the dark forces - behind the creation the Quran or not.

258 17/74a: "And had We (Allah*) not given thee (Muhammad*) strength, thou wouldst nearly have inclined to them (non-Muslims*) a little". This is a reference to the "Satanic Verses" - Muhammad gave in to the leaders of Mecca and "received" verses accepting and promoting the 3 goddesses al-Lat, al Uzza, and Manat in addition to al-Lah/Allah as the price for acceptance and perhaps power in Mecca. But shortly after he regretted and retracted the text - and blamed the Devil. And not to forget: "Proved" that it was normal for all prophets to be tempted - "ergo" he still was a normal prophet - - - even though he claimed to be the greatest.

259 17/74b: "And had We (Allah*) not given thee (Muhammad*) strength, thou wouldst nearly have inclined to them (non-Muslims*) a little". The story of the "Satanic Verses" is a historical anomaly for everyone who lived before it happened. Like all historical anomalies in the Quran mentioned by us and a number more.

260 17/75: "In that case We (Allah*) - - -". This means there existed alternatives. But how was that possible if Allah predestines everything and every detail in a Plan not possible to change, like the Quran claims many places. (Remember here that full predestination and at the same time free will for man is not possible - not even for an omniscient and omnipotent god. In the immaterial parts of reality there are lines not possible to cross even for gods - and predestination vs. free will for man is a version of "the time travel paradox", a paradox which is proved insolvable.

261 17/76a: "Their (the Quraysh leaders in Mecca*) purpose was to scare thee (Muhammad*) - - -". Historical anomalies.

262 17/76b: "Their (the Quraysh leaders in Mecca*) purpose was to scare thee (Muhammad*) - - -". This is dishonest political fast-talk. Their purpose was to neutralize him as a political and economical danger by letting him share power and be part of the establishment. But the fast-talk afterwards sounded better for his followers.

163 17/76c: "- - - in that case - - -". See 17/75 above.

264 17/77a: “(This was Our (Allah’s*)) way with the messengers We sent before thee (Muhammad*) - - -". Wrong. None of the known prophets had an incident leading up to a possible punishment like the "satanic Verses" had merited if Allah had been real - not even the claimed prophets known only from the Quran.

265 17/77b: “(This was Our (Allah’s*)) way with the messengers We sent before thee (Muhammad*), thou wilt find no change in Our ways.” Wrong. There is so much difference between especially NT and the Quran that it is not the same religion at all. F.x. Jesus was for peace, Muhammad for war. And science has clearly shown that the Bible is not falsified – Islam in case will have to prove it, and after 1400 years of thorough searching they have found not one single proof, only loose claims. (Guess if they had told the world about it if they really had found a proof!! The lack of such a proof, is an even better proof than science has produced for that the Bible is not falsified.)

266 17/78a: "- - - regular prayers - - -". This demand for regular prayers - 5 times a day - was so essential for Allah (he even wanted more often according to Hadiths) that it became one of the 5 "pillars" of Islam. For Yahweh such formalism was so totally without any interest, that no similar rule at all is mentioned in the whole Bible. One of the 100% for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god.

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are thought that a question or problem can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not, many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. In cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1) Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other.)

267 17/78b: "- - - the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony". We have not found any Muslim source giving a good explanation for what here is meant. But we have found some unscientific mysticism about angels, and sparks of Allah's light, and intuition all being special at daybreak.

268 17/79a: "- - - soon will thy Lord (Allah*) raise thee (Muhammad*) to a Station (Heaven*) of Praise and Glory (a top position -"Maqam Mahmud" - in Paradise*)". If Allah exists and is a major god, and if the Quran in addition is reliable.

269 17/79b: "- - - soon will thy Lord (Allah*) raise thee (Muhammad*) to a Station (Heaven*) of Praise and Glory (a top position -"Maqam Mahmud" - in Paradise*)". Strongly contradicted by the Bible - a man of Muhammad's moral standard - lying, thieving. rapeist, war-monger, hate-monger, and more - could not enter the Paradise Jesus told about. Not to mention get a high position there. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

270 17/79c: "- - - soon will thy Lord (Allah*) raise thee (Muhammad*) to a Station (Heaven*) of Praise and Glory (a top position -"Maqam Mahmud" - in Paradise*)". One more proof for that Yahweh's and Allah's paradises are very different, and that thus Yahweh and Allah cannot be the same god: In Yahweh's Paradise the humans "become like angels" (Mark 12/25) and not one single place in all the NT there is said anything about anyone being different in Paradise (little is said about Paradise in OT). In Allah's Paradise there is Aristocracy and even the commoners are divided in 4 or 6 or more gardens, one better than the other. Yahweh and Allah the same god? You bet!

271 17/79d: "- - - raise thee (Muhammad*) - - -". A historical anomaly.

272 17/80a: (A17/98): “Say: ‘O my Lord (Allah*)! Let me (Muhammad*) enter by the Gate of Truth and Honor, and likewise my exit by the Gate of Truth and Honor; and grant me from Thy Presence an authority to aid (me).” This is a cryptic one. Islam seems not really to understand its meaning. M. Asad from 2002 (translated from Swedish): “Lord (Allah)! Let me go down into my grave as a true and honest believer and let me get up from it as a true and honest believer, and give me from Your own power strength to be victorious.” And that book says that the literal meaning (translated from Swedish) is: “Let my entrance be in the sign of the truth and my exit be in the sign of the truth - - -.” M. Asad in English (2008): “(O my Sustainer (Allah*)! Cause me to enter (upon whatever I may do) in a manner true and sincere, and cause me to leave (it) in a manner true and sincere, and grant me out of Thy grace, sustaining strength.” This new edition simply has dropped all comments concerning this verse that was in the older editions. Too cryptic for the new edition? What at least is sure is that it is not 100% sure that the claims about how clear and easy to understand the text in the Quran are correct.

273 17/80b: "Let me (Muhammad*) - - -". A time anomaly.

274 17/80c: "- - - Truth - - -". See 2/2b above.

275 17/80d: "- - - Honor - - -" Beware that Muslims gains honor in accordance with their partly immoral moral code. In addition see 2/2b above.

276 17/81a: “Truth (the teachings of Muhammad*) has (now) arrived, - - -”. As these teachings build on the Quran, and the Quran contains lots of mistakes, the teachings are at best partly the truth.

277 17/81b: "- - - Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish". Let us hope so. But falsehood combined with ruthlessness, armed strengths and willingness to terror and murder often survives for a long time - just look at the Mafia, the Chinese Triads, etc. Are at least parts of Muhammad’s teaching in the same league?

278 17/81c: "- - - Falsehood - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code.

279 17/82a: “We (Allah*) sent down - - - in the Quran - - -”. Islam will have to prove that the Quran really is sent down, and sent down from an omniscient god. Without VERY good proofs, it is difficult to believe an omniscient god has sent down such a quality book, and especially if he intended to save people for his Heaven. Yes, without such proofs, it simply is impossible to believe it. (If Allah belongs to the dark forces, the miserable moral code, etc. may be easier to understand - and also all the mistakes if they are a condition for being permitted by a god to make a trap for humans.

280 17/82b: "- - - a healing - - -". There is not much mental and religious healing in a book full of mistakes and immoral moral rules, and not from a god.

281 17/82c: "- - - mercy - - -". See 1/1a above.

282 17/82d: "- - - those who believe - - -". = The Muslims - only Muslims believe according to the Quran.

283 17/82e: "- - - for the unjust it (not believe in the Quran*) causes nothing but loss after loss". If one here talks about the Muslims with their partly unjust moral code, unjust rules for conflicts and strife, and partly unjust laws, etc., they have lost much on the intellectual level, as philosophy/new thoughts have been disliked and to a large degree prohibited for long periods. The mentioned twisted moral code etc. also have made too many of them as human personalities become like the feet of women in the old China: Small, malformed, and all the same the persons themselves believing it all was top - only because their parents and everybody else told them so - - - and everything in reality because one single person (in this case an empress or princess) once in the distant past was malformed). If one means non-Muslims (which is the real intention here) they have lost much to the aggressive Islam through the centuries - enormous amounts of wealth representing millions and billions of hours of work, their cultures have lost hundreds of years of development, the humans have lost at least a billion years of freedom as slaves (at least 15 millions from black Africa, some millions owned by Muslims in black Africa, a good part of the 14 millions sold to slave traders to the Americas, may be a similar number from Asia (f. ex. in what now is Pakistan, India and Bangladesh the situation at times was horrible). And finally 1.5 million from Europe, included some 300ooo captured by pirates at sea, included some from the Americas (a close relative of Napoleon's Josephine from the Americas (not USA) was captured at sea and sold to the sultan's harem in Istanbul). And finally the loss for non-Muslims included millions of dead ones - the highest estimates are far above 100 millions. Wars, murders, mass murders, pogroms, (for these three last, negroes, Buddhists, Hindus and other Pagans may have been worst off, simply because as Pagans they were worth nearly nothing), hunger, and not least deaths during slave transports - especially the marches of black slaves through Sahara could be horrendous (some of the estimates for the number of deaths on these routes are so high, that we are reluctant to mention them - they are difficult to believe). Finally as for loss in the possible next life, this will depend on if there really are gods, if Allah is one of them, etc. What is sure in this connection is that the Quran is so full of mistakes, that no god has been involved in the making of it, and that Allah never in all the 1400 years one has claimed he existed, not one single time in any way has manifested himself or in any other way has proved his existence.

And what have all Muslims lost in a possible next life, if Islam is a made up religion and Allah a made up god? An ominous thought as no god ever made a book as full of mistakes, etc. as the Quran.

284 17/82f: "- - - the unjust - - -". One of Muhammad's many distaste and stronger inducing names for non-Muslims.</>

285 17/82g: "- - - unjust - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code.

286 17/82h: "- - - for the unjust (non-Muslims*) it (not believe in the Quran*) causes nothing but loss - - -". As there is no god behind the Quran, it has no real religious value. And as its ethical and moral codes are deplorable - compare it to "do unto others like you want others do against you" and judge for yourself - it has negative moral value. It is a gain, not a loss to be able to see what the Quran really is - and it is a mystery why so many are able not to see all its errors, etc. after loss".

287 17/83a: "When We (Allah*) bestow our favor on man - - -". There is not one single clear such case in all history.

288 17/83b: "When We (Allah*) bestow our favor on man, he turns away - - -". Not strange if he understood that something was very wrong, like f.x. most Jews in Medina did.

289 17/84a: "- - - (Allah*) knows best who it is that is best - - -". Allah knows everything according to the Quran.

290 17/84b: "- - - (Allah*) knows best who it is that is best who it is that is best guided on the Way". But if Allah knows everything, why then 2/233h above?

291 17/84c: "- - - guided - - -". There is not much real guidance in a book full of mistakes. Also see 2/2b above.

292 17/84d: "- - - the Way". The claimed road to the Quran's and Islam's paradise. See 10/9f above.

293 17/85a: "- - - the Spirit - - -". Most Muslim scholars mean this is a reference to the Holy Spirit (mentioned 3-4 times in the Quran), though other explanations are possible - as Islam claims, the Quran has a very distinct language, easy to understand and impossible to misunderstand(?). But many of the scholars mix the Holy Spirit with the arch angel Gabriel - Gabriel brought messages to Muhammad according to the Quran, and the Holy Spirit a few times did the same - "ergo" the Holy Spirit must be Gabriel, Q.E.D. No comments except that no really knower of the Bible - Christian, Jewish, or something else - would ever get that idea if the book is read with an open mind.

294 17/85b: "- - - the Spirit (of inspiration) - - -". This explanation by the translator in reality is unclear, as it most likely is the Holy Spirit which is meant. But then the Quran a couple of places tells that the Holy Spirit brought verses to Muhammad, and as he claimed to get many of his verses "by inspiration", this conclusion - right or wrong - is easy to make. A small curio here: In the Hadiths it is told that Muhammad only dreamt such verses and surahs in the bed of Aishah (his child wife).

295 17/85c: "- - - knowledge - - -". See 26/83a below.

296 17/86a: “If it were Our (Allah’s*) Will - - -". Once more Muhammad is telling about all the wonders Allah could do "if he willed". But as Allah never "willed" the suspicion that he in reality never could, is very near. Bluff- - -. Many a cheat, deceiver and swindler use techniques like this. Also see 24/19d above.

297 17/86b: “If it were Our (Allah’s*) Will, We could take away that which We have sent thee (Muhammad/Muslims*) by inspiration (= the Quran*) - - -”. One more threat Allah never fulfilled. Not his will or not able to? - or not existing?

198 17/86c: "- - - sent thee (Muhammad*) - - -". A historical anomaly.

299 17/86d: "- - - by inspiration - - -". This was how Muhammad claimed he got many of his claimed verses and surahs. A most convenient way - impossible for anyone to check and easy to add or subtract if one wanted to. The word is not mentioned for such things connected to the prophets in the Bible - Yahweh only used direct contact, visions, and dreams. One more indication for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god. 

*300 17/87a: "- - - the Mercy from thy (Muhammad's) Lord - - -". See 1/1a above.

*301 17/87b: "- - - thy (Muhammad's) - - -". A historical anomaly.

*302 17/88a: “If the whole mankind and Jinns were gathered together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce the like thereof”. Wrong. A flock of naïve primitives or people indoctrinated from childhood might believe this. But a number of good writers today and through history would be able to do that - this everyone knows who have read some good books. The Quran is not especially good literature to be polite, in spite of what Islam declares - rather dull, repeating the same stories time and time again, and using the same points and the same finish over and over, and not least: There are few if any original stories, thoughts, or ideas - they are "borrowed" from other sources, included made up scriptures, legends and fairy tales. See also 10/37a and 10/37b above. But why do it? - no matter how well it was done Islam would never admit that the bluff had been trumped - they cannot afford it, because that would prove that this statement and at least one more are wrong and just a bluff - - - and a god neither is wrong nor needs bluffs, which means that mistakes and bluffs prove that it is not from a god - which proves that something is seriously wrong with Muhammad, with the Quran, and with Islam. PS: You find this bluff at least 2 places in the Quran.

303 17/88b: "- - - Jinns - - -". Originally figures from Arab pagan religion, folklore and fairy tales – and not mentioned by any other prophet throughout times, even though they are pretty active and part of what Islam claims is the same basic religion as the Jewish and the Christian one (the claim is wrong, though - the basic ideals are too different). According to the Quran they are made from fire (or hot wind) and are distinct from spirits. An Arabism (see 4/13d above) as far as we have found out they only exists in the folklore in and around Arabia.

304 17/88c: (YA2289:: "The proof of the Quran is in its own beauty and nature, and the circumstances in which it was promulgated - - -". This is such a silly sentence that at first we did not take it into this text. But on the other hand it is one of the very few, if not the only "proofs" Islam has got for its religion. A book where the language is beautiful - - - after being polished for 250 years (from ca. 650 AD till ca. 900 AD) by top scholars. And what is the nature of the book: A bloody, inhuman and to a great part immoral war religion very far from "do unto others like you want others do onto you"- and the book itself flowing over of mistaken facts and other mistakes, of contradictions and cases of invalid logic, unclear language, etc. And the circumstances? Claimed received by a person liking power and later during his bloody reign as the leader of highwaymen and in the end as a warlord - some godly circumstances? And this is the only - or at least one of the very few - "proofs" for that Islam is a genuine religion, not according to us, but as you see according to central and certified Islamic religious literature. Except for the claimed, but invalid "signs" listed in the book.

*305 17/89: "- - - yet the greater part of men refuses (to receive it) - - -". At least a number of them because already at that time many saw that something was wrong with this teaching.

306 17/90a: “They (non-Muslims*) say (to Muhammad*) - - -". A historical anomaly.

307 17/90b: “They (non-Muslims*) say: ‘We shall not believe in thee (Muhammad*) - - -". How could this end up in the claimed "Mother Book" (of which the Quran is a copy according to Muhammad) billions of years before it was said or happened? One more of the many texts or quotes in the Quran which could not have been reliably written into the claimed "Mother Book" (13/39b, 43/4b+c, 85/21-22) in Heaven (of which the Quran is claimed to be a copy) eons ago, unless predestination was and is 100% like the Quran claims many places (if you look, you will find more cases than we mention - we only mention some of the obvious ones). If man has free will - even partly only (an expression some Muslims use to flee from the problem full predestination contra free will for man (and also contra that there is no meaning in praying to Allah for help, if everything already is predestined in accordance with a plan "nobody and nothing can change" - a problem which Muslims seldom mention), and an expression no Muslim we have met has ever defined) - and can change his mind, full and reliable clairvoyance about the future, not to mention the distant future, is impossible even for a god, as the man always could/can change his mind or his words once more, in spite of Islam's claims. There are at least 3 reasons - 2 of them unavoidable - for this:

When something is changed, automatically the future is changed.

The laws of chaos will be at work and change things, if even a tiny part is made different.

The so-called "Butterfly Effect"; "a butterfly flapping its wing in Brazil may cause a storm in China later on" or "a small bump may overturn a big load".

This that Allah predestines everything like the Quran claims and states many places, is an essential point, because besides totally removing the free will of man (in spite of the Quran's claims of such free will, or some Muslims' adjusted "partly free will for man" - to adjust the meanings where the texts in the Quran are wrong, is typical for Islam and its Muslims) - it also removes the moral behind Allah's punishing (and rewarding) persons for what they say and do - Allah cannot reward or punish people for things he himself has forced them to say or do, and still expect to be believed when he (Muhammad?) claims to be a good or benevolent or moral or just god. Also see 2/51b and 3/24a above.

And as mentioned above, full predestination also makes prayers to Allah meaningless, as everything already is predestined according to Allah's Plan - a Plan which no prayer ("nobody and nothing") can change.

Also see 3/154e, 6/149a, 7/34a, and 14/22b above.

308 17/90c: “They (non-Muslims*) say: ‘We shall not believe in thee (Muhammad*), until thou cause a spring to gush forth for us from the earth (or give us some other proof*)”. Strong requests - and a positive answer would have had effect. But there never was any proof for anything - not for Allah, not for Gabriel, not for being a prophet, not for Islam.

309 17/91a: Similar to 17/90c just above.

310 17/91b: "(They - the non-Muslims - say*): 'Or (until) thou (Muhammad*) have - - -'". See 17/90b above.

311 17/92a: “Or thou (Muhammad*) cause the sky to fall in pieces, as thou sayest (will happen) - - - “. No matter if Allah accepts to repeat this in his (?) book made thousands and millions of years before they said it (!), it is wrong. The sky Muhammad thought was a roof over the Earth, is an optical illusion, and cannot fall down in pieces. Neither Muhammad nor Allah corrected this wrong piece of astronomy. And neither were any of them able to give a proof like they were asked for.

312 17/92b: "(They - the non-Muslims - say*): 'Or thou (Muhammad*) causes - - -'". See 17/90b above.

313 17/93a: "(They - the non-Muslims - say*): 'Or (until) thou (Muhammad*) have - - -". See 17/90b above.

314 17/93b: "Glory to my (Muhammad's*) Lord (Allah*)!". Please read 1/1a above. Does he merit any praise?.

##315 17/93c: "Am I (Muhammad*) aught but a man - a Messenger?" = I (Muhammad) am unable to perform miracles. Which is one more proof for that all the miracles claimed by Hadiths and by folklore and legends to be connected to Muhammad, all are made up tales. We also quote (A17/111 - in English 2008 edition 17/109): "- - - the only miracle granted by Allah to Muhammad is the Quran itself - - -". This is a most well-known fact in Islam, and all the same the lay people in the religion are told about the wonderful miracles Muhammad preformed, and there is no comments telling that the stories are made up according to the Quran when Hadiths tells about the miracles. Are any further comments on Muslim honesty and reliability necessary?

316 17/94a: "What kept men (typical the Quran - not women*) back from Belief when Guidance (the Quran*) came to them - - -?" Simply: They understood 17/94b below - at least some of them.

317 17/94b: "- - - Belief - - -". Islam - only Islam is belief in the Quran.

319 17/94d: "What kept men (typical the Quran - not women*) back from Belief when Guidance (the Quran*) came to them, was nothing but this: they said, 'Has Allah sent a man (like us) to be (His) Messenger?" Better for Muhammad to say this, than to admit the real reason. But this is one of his weaker ways of explaining problems away, as all Jews and Christians and many others knew that all the prophets in the bible were normal humans.

320 17/94e: "- - - they (the skeptics*) said (to Muhammad*) - - -". A historical anomaly.

321 17/94f: "- - - they (the skeptics*) said, 'Has Allah sent a man (like us (Muhammad*)) to be (His) Messenger?" See 17/90b above.

322 17/94g: "- - - (His) Messenger - - -". See 9/88b above.

323 17/94h: "Has Allah sent a man (like us (normal men*)) to be (His) Messenger?". At least there is good reason for to ask if Muhammad really was sent - his book and thus his claim for divine contact is so full of errors of many kinds, that it is not from a god.

324 17/95a: "Say (Muhammad*) - - -". A historical anomaly.

325 17/95b: "If there were settled, on earth, angels walking about in peace and quiet, We (Allah*) should certainly have sent down from heaven an angel for a messenger". The underlying meaning is that as angels do not live on Earth, Allah could not use angels as messengers for beings living on Earth. But according to the Quran Allah used angels for such jobs - to f.x. Abraham. Lot, Mary and Jesus (remember also that the Holy Spirit = the angel Gabriel according to many Muslims). Muhammad sometimes uses different excuses for why angels cannot come and prove he has supernatural connections or give proofs for the existence of Allah (obvious excuse is the claim that Allah cannot send down angels, because that would mean the Day of Doom had arrived, or that it would give no good results because angels would have to take the shape of med - he does not explain why.

326 17/95c: “- - - heavens - - -“. Plural and wrong. See 2/2a.

327 17/96a: "Say (Muhammad*) - - -". A historical anomaly.

328 17/96b: "- - - He (Allah*) is well acquainted with His servants, and He sees (all things)". See 2/233h above.

329 17/96c: "- - - His (Allah's*) servants - - -". This expression is used both about Allah's claimed messengers - the possible meaning here - and Muslims generally.

330 17/97a: Another case of "the carrot and the whip".

331 17/97b: "It is he whom Allah guides (= he who lives according to the Quran*), that is on true guidance - - -." See 17/94a and 17/94b and not least 7/192a and 16/107 above.

332 17/97c: "- - - he whom Allah guides - - -". The Muslim.

333 17/97d: "- - - Allah guides - - -". If he exists - and if the Quran is true at least on that point.

334 17/97e: "- - - true Guidance - - -". See 2/2b + 7/192a and 16/107 above.

335 17/97f: "- - - he whom Allah leaves astray - - -". One of Muhammad's many negative names for non-Muslims.

336 17/97g: "- - - he whom Allah leaves astray - for such wilt thou (man*) find no protector besides Him (Allah*)". At least as far as believers in Yahweh, the Bible disagrees.

337 17/97h: "On the Day of Judgment We (Allah*) shall gather them (non-Muslims*) together - - -". - - - if Allah exists and if he is in a position where he is able to do so.

338 17/97i: "On the Day of Judgment We (Allah*) shall gather them (non-Muslims*) together - - -". Contradicted by the Bible which says that the ruler on the Day of Doom is Yahweh, not Allah. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

339 17/97j: "- - - their (non-Muslims'*) abode will be Hell - - -". At least concerning the believers in Yahweh the Bible disagrees. And the Bible also indicates little access to Yahweh's Paradise for Muslims - f.x. their moral rules too often are too immoral compared with "do unto others like you want others do unto you", not to specify the rules for dishonesty, suppression, war, harems, etc. which none of them will pass "the narrow road" of Jesus.

340 17/97k: "- - - We (Allah*) shall increase for them (non-Muslims*) the fierceness of the (Hell*) Fire". See 3/77b above.

##341 17/97l: "- - - We (Allah*) shall increase for them (non-Muslims*) the fierceness of the (Hell*) Fire". Is this another indication for that the real ruler of Hell is Allah? What kind of good and benevolent god is he in case?

##342 17/97m: "- - - We (Allah*) shall increase for them (non-Muslims*) the fierceness of the (Hell*) Fire". - or (see 17/97l just above) is it a slip of the tongue of Allah, proving he is from the dark forces who rule Hell? Perhaps a dressed up Iblis/Devil cheating Muhammad? (Muhammad would have no chance to see the difference.)

343 17/98a: "That (Hell*) is their (non-Muslims’*) recompense, because they rejected Our (Allah*) Signs - - -". See 17/97j above.

344 17/98b: “- - - Our (Allah's) Signs - - -.” Invalid as proof for Allah. See 2/39b above.

345 17/98c: "- - -(Non-Muslims*) said (to Muhammad*) - - -". A historical anomaly.

346 17/98d: "- - -(Non-Muslims*) said (to Muhammad*): 'When we are - - -'". See 17/90b above.

347 17/98e: "When we are reduced to bones and broken dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new Creation?" Remember that Islam claims you are recreated bodily, which may be a bit hard to believe. And also remember that Muhammad/Allah never proved any power neither for creation, nor for recreation - everything just were claims and big words.

348 17/99a: "See they (non-Muslims*) not that Allah, Who created the heavens (plural and wrong*) and the earth, has power to create the like of them (anew)?". Impossible to see as long as it is not proved that Allah really created the heavens and the earth - and especially when you see lots of errors in the teaching in addition.

####349 17/99b: "See they (non-Muslims*) not that Allah, Who created the heavens (plural and wrong*) and the earth, has power to create the like of them (anew)?". This is a debate technique you meet many places in the Quran and from Muslims: They take a loose claim, treat it as a proved fact, and use it as basis for "logical" conclusions. Such "conclusions" are totally without logical or factual value, but they look logical. To reveal the cheating you do not attack the invalid conclusion, because the logic itself may be ok, but show that the claim they build the logic and the conclusion on, is invalid as it is not a proved fact.

350 17/99c: "- - - Allah, who created heavens (plural and wrong) and the earth - - -". See 11/7a above.

351 17/99d: “- - - heavens - - -“. Plural and wrong. See 2/22d.

352 17/99e: "- - - (Allah*) has the power to create the like of them (people*) (anew) - - -". Often claimed in the Quran, never proved anywhere. See 6/2b, 11/7a above and 21/56c below.

353 17/99f: "Only He (Allah*) has (the power to - - -*) - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which says that Yahweh, not Allah, is the ruler over the Day of Doom. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

354 17/99g: "- - - He (Allah*) has decreed a term appointed - - -". The predestination once more: Allah has decided a fixed time for it - and no-one can change his Plan, according to the Quran.

355 17/99h: “- - - of which there is no doubt - - -”. With this many mistakes - something like three or four pr. page in our book when you count just the surely mistaken facts - there is nothing in the Quran about which there can be no doubt, unless it is really proved correct. And nearly nothing in the book is proved. A last day will come for man, but it is highly unlikely it will be like described in the Quran.

356 17/99i: "- - - the unjust - - -". Normally "Quran-speak" for non-Muslims. One of Muhammad's repulsive names for them.

357 17/99j: "- - - the unjust refuse (to receive it (the Quran*)) - - -". As mentioned before many already then understood that something was wrong. These naturally were among the ones who refused to believe in the Quran.

358 17/99k: "- - - unjust - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code.

359 17/100a: "If ye (non-Muslims*) had control over the treasures of the Mercy of my (Muhammad's*) Lord (Allah*), behold, ye would keep them back, for fear of spending them - - -". Also these kinds of loose claims are cheap, and many do like Muhammad here; use such ones to slander opponents. It may here be symptomatic that most of the international help or relief NGOs are started in and run from non-Muslim countries (except those working mainly for Muslims). It may be symptomatic that even when the majority of victims from natural catastrophes are Muslims, most of the help often comes from non-Muslim areas - some of the really rich Muslim Gulf states f.x. did not give really big money after the tsunami in 2004 until after considerable international pressure, even though some 80% of the victims were Muslims. It may be symptomatic that it has been reported in newspapers - at least in Scandinavia - that when the big relief/help organizations collect money, the collectors all too often get little or nothing if there is a Muslim name on the door (again; the situation may be different for organizations working mainly among Muslims).

So much for cheap slander.

360 17/100b: "- - - the Treasure of the Mercy of my (Muhammad's*) Lord (Allah*)". See 2/2b above.

361 17/100c: "- - - the Mercy of my (Muhammad's*) Lord (Allah*)". See 1/1a above.

362 17/101a: "- - - Moses - - -". A historical anomaly. 

363 17/101b: “To Moses We (Allah*) did give - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which says that the god of Moses was Yahweh, not Allah. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

364 17/101c: “To Moses We (Allah*) did give nine Clear Signs - - -.” According to the Bible he got his staff cum snake, his hand which became not only white, but leprous when he put it into his cloak, and then healed the next time he put it into his cloak (2. Mos. 4/3-7) + water turning to blood on the ground (2. Mos. 4/9) + 10 plagues (2. Mos. chapters 7-11) = 13 “signs”. (Or really only 3 signs + 10 plagues). Which book is most reliable – if any?

365 17/101d: "- - - Clear Signs - - -". These signs may - may - really be true. But they in case prove Yahweh, not Allah if the old books tell the truth.</>

366 17/101e: "- - - Pharaoh (here Ramses II and another one than the one at the time of Joseph naturally) - - -". A historical anomaly.

367 17/101f: "- - - Pharaoh (Ramses II*) said to him (Moses*): O Moses" I consider - - -". See 17/90b above.

368 17/101g: "- - - indeed - - -". See 2/2b above.

369 17/102a: "- - - Moses - - -". A historical anomaly.

370 17/102b: “- - - heavens - - -“. Plural and wrong. See 2/22d. 

*371 17/102c: “- - - I (Moses*) consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!” (Not from the Bible.) Pharaoh Ramses II was not doomed to destruction, at least not this time. He did not drown, in spite of what the Quran (and the Bible) says (but for the Bible there is a possible explanation for the mistake - not so for the Quran, as gods make no mistakes). – and he lived for several years after the possible exodus around 1235 BC. (Which may be one of the reasons why some Muslims want the Exodus from Egypt to have happened under pharaohs we do not know so well as Ramses II - preferably one we do not know if he may have drowned or not. You, therefore, frequently see or hear Muslims claim the Exodus was in the 1500s or 1600s BC or even earlier, and that the time in Egypt was 200-300 or even 100-200 years - claims which collide also with other information (f.x. the number of Jews leaving Egypt, and the mentioning of the town Ramses at least two times (i. Mos. 1/11 and 12/37) in connection with the Exodus)). The Bible clearly says 430 Years, and science (included Encyclopedia Britannica if we remember correctly) is pretty unanimous: If Exodus ever happened, it happened around 1235 BC = during the reign of Ramses II.

The Pharaoh then honored his word to Moses and “let his people go” – though only after 10 serious plagues. But then he regretted the loss of all those slaves and followed after them. The Jews were caught against a sea, but Yahweh made a path for them across it.

372 17/102d: "- - - Pharaoh (Ramses II*) - - -". A historical anomaly.

373 17/103a: "So he (Ramses II*) resolved to remove them (the Jews*) from the face of earth - --". This is not from the Bible. The Bible tells Ramses regretted loosing so many slaves and wanted to recapture them. (2. Mos. 14/5).

***374 17/103b: “- - - We (Allah*) did drown him (Pharaoh Ramses II) and all who were with him.” The pitiful fact is that we know from history that Ramses II did not drown. He even did not die until some years after possible the exodus, according to history.

10/92: “This day (the same as in 17/103*) shall We (Allah*) save thee in the body - - -“. The Quran mainly tells that the Pharaoh did drown (even though Pharaoh Ramses II did not die from drowning, and not until some years later than when science says the Exodus took place – if it took place). But here either that is contradicted – or Allah in reality contradicted his own promise of “saving the Pharaoh in the body”, which should mean “bodily”, “safely”.

***375 17/103c: “- - - We (Allah*) did drown him (Pharaoh Ramses II) and all who were with him.” According to the Bible it was Yahweh, not Allah who did this.

376 17/104a: "- - - the Children of Israel - - -". A historical anomaly.

377 17/104b: (YA2314): “- - - the second of the warnings (for the Jews*) - - -.” The Jews have had such a tumultuous history, that nobody has a clue to what is meant. One guesses – but it only is educated guesses. Even the Day of Doom is proposed as one of the warnings, this even though the sentence is in the past tense. Clear language in the Quran? (When you look at other parts of the Quran, you may get the feeling - but only the feeling - that what is meant here is Nebuchadnezzar's conquest and bringing of most of the Jews to Babylon/Babylonia in 586-97 BC - see 17/6-7 above.)

378 17/105a: “We (Allah*) sent down the (Quran) - - -”. If Allah is omniscient, he did not make such a second- or third-rate book - only all the mistaken facts makes it at least second rate, and then there are f. x. all the invalid statements and proofs, not to mention the simply wrong ones and the contradictions and the invalid logic, etc.

379 17/105b: “We (Allah*) sent down the (Quran) in Truth, - - -”. The stumbling stone for these statements in the Quran - there are many - is the large collection of mistaken facts and invalid signs, etc. in the book. It at best is partly true.

380 17/105c: “- - - and in Truth it has descended - - -”. See 17/105a above.

381 17/105d: “- - - in Truth - - -". See 2/2b and 13/1j above and 40/75 below.

382 17/105e: "- - - and We (Allah*) sent thee (Muhammad*) but to give Glad Tidings and to warn (sinners)". This was in Mecca before he gained military strength. After he became stronger, he - and his successors - forgot (?) that their duty only was to warn.

383 17/105f: “- - - Glad Tidings - - -.” At best only partly right. See 2/97i and 17/9b above and 91/13 below.

384 17/105g: "- - - (- - - sins) - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code. We also may mention that just this word often covers very different deeds, acts, words, and thoughts in the Quran and Islam, than in more normal religions (Islam is a religion of war - in spite of its loud slogans), not to mention how much its meaning in the Quran often differs from the basic of all human moral; "do against others like you want others do against you". Read the surahs from Medina and weep.

385 17/106a: “- - - a Quran which We (Allah*) have divided - - -“. If any omniscient god has had anything at all to do with a sorry work like making or “sending down” the Quran with all its errors, etc., Islam will have to prove it.

386 17/106b: “We (Allah*) have revealed it (the Quran*) by stages.” See 17/106a just above and 17/106c just below.

387 17/106c: “We (Allah*) have revealed it (the Quran*) by stages.” Muhammad revealed the Quran little by little and often in connection with things which happened or actual situations – but mostly after things had happened or there were problems - not before so that trouble could have been avoided. An impolite observer could have asked if the explanation was that the maker of the verses did not know what was about to happen, but then used a god’s almighty authority to clean up things afterwards – this even more so as when Muhammad personally was involved, the god (?) often helped him and more or less always took his side.

***388 17/107a: “Say: ‘Whether you believe it or not, it is true that those who were given knowledge beforehand (= Christians and Jews mainly*), when it (the Quran*) is recited to them, fall down on their faces in humble prostration”. One word: Nonsense. Or a stronger word: Propaganda. And what is worse: The one that composed this verse knew it was a lie – which also Muhammad knew when he made or recited it. A few Jews and Christians are said to have converted by 656 AD when the Quran is said to be written, though very few if any in 621 when this surah was made, but as a general rule: Utter nonsense. Just look at the history of conflicts between Islam, Jews and Christians, not to mention all the Jews in and near Medina who rather became fugitives or were killed, than to accept Islam – f.x. the Qurayza - and no more is necessary to say. You sometimes meet dishonesty like this in new, emerging religions and sects. It is a way of gaining “weight” for their statements, especially when they have few facts or proofs to show for themselves. Just one small fact that disproves this fairy tale: The 700 Jews of the Qurayza tribe - the last big Jewish tribe in Medina - could have saved their lives and possessions by becoming Muslims in time. To a man they chose not to. This verse contradicts solid historical science and knowledge. And one more fact: Remember that Muslims not only are permitted to lie to defend or forward Islam, but are urged to do it "if necessary" (al-Taqiyya and Kitman - the lawful lie and the lawful half-truth).

389 17/107b: "- - - knowledge - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it normally only means religious knowledge about the Quran, Islam, etc. (In just this case it refers to the Bible - - - which Islam even today claims is falsified, even though both they themselves and science thoroughly have proved that never documented claim wrong.)

390 17/108a: “And they (Jews and Christians when they hear the Quran*) say: ‘Glory to our Lord! Truly has the promise of our Lord been fulfilled!” Made up propaganda. See 17/107a above.

391 17/108b: "Truly has the promise of our Lord been fulfilled!” This refers to Muhammad's claim that he is foretold in the Bible. As there is no foretelling about him there (see 7/157e above), this claim simply is wrong. (It also is a made up claim - even the Quran makes it clear that the Jews - there were few Christians around - did not believe him).

392 17/108c: “And they (Jews and Christians) say: “Glory to our Lord! Truly has the promise of our Lord been fulfilled!” As for the likeliness that this is true, see 17/107a above. But Islam (in this case “The Message of the Quran”) tells that it may refer to all the mentioning of Muhammad in the Bible (of which we have found none that is not just wishful statements which are obviously wrong – see “Muhammad in the Bible?” in http://1000mistakes.com ), but that it most likely means joy for finally getting the Quran, which Allah had promised and now finally had sent. There is no reference to a promise of something like the Quran in the Bible, and Jews and Christians at all times did reckon the Quran to be so wrong and so distant from the Bible, that it was not even heresy. Verse 107 and 108 simply are fairy tales made up to back up Muhammad - a not unusual technique to use by emerging new sects or religions. It may be based on a few converts at that time, or free fantasy - dishonesty happens when new religions and sects are made. And later.

393 17/108d: "Truly - - -". See 2/2b and 13/1g above.

394 17/109: “They (Jews and Christians*) fall down on their faces in tears (when they hear the Quran*)”. As honest as 17/107 and 17/108 above - but then dishonesty is a part of Islam (f.x. al-Taqiyya - the lawful lie, Kitman - the lawful half-truth, broken words/promises/oaths (if necessary against expiation), and betrayal/deceit all are accepted "if necessary" or "if it will give a better result").

395 17/110a: "- - - Rahman - - -". One of Allah's claimed 99 names (ar-rahman = the most gracious).

396 17/110b: "- - - the Most Beautiful Names - - -". Allah is said to have 99 names (+ one), all of which Islam claims to be the most beautiful names. Read the surahs from Medina and a couple of very unjust sharia laws, and see if names like "most merciful", "most wise", etc. seem true.

397 17/110c: "- - - the Most Beautiful Names - - -". Is it a co-incidence that Muhammad did not include the name "Yahweh" among the claimed 99 names of Allah?

398 17/110d: "Neither speak thy (Muslims'*) Prayer aloud, nor speak it in a low tone, but seek a middle course between". To Yahweh you can even pray silently inside yourself - there is nothing like this sentence in the Bible. The same god?

As for the value of prayers in Islam, also see 62/9c. And if you combine 62/9c with 67/9c - a strong one - you get something thought-provoking. (And relevant here: Muslims often are thought that a question or problem can have 2 or more true and correct solutions - Islam is forced to teach this, because if not, many of the mistakes and contradictions in the Quran become too obvious. But this ONLY is true if parallel true solutions are possible. In cases where 2 or more possible solutions are mutually excluding each other, maximum 1 of the mutually excluding ones can be true. It should be a bit thought provoking for Muslims, that just this "small" difference in theoretical thinking and teaching, was one of the reasons (there were several of course) for why Europe and the West exploded into the Technical Revolution, while the Muslim area stagnated). Two star examples are: 1) Full predestination is not possible even for an omnipotent god to combine with even the smallest piece of free will for man - the two are mutually excluding. The same for full and unchangeable predestination long time before, combined with any claimed effect of prayers - the two are mutually excluding each other.)

399 17/110e: "Neither speak thy (Muslims'*) Prayer aloud, nor speak it in a low tone, but seek a middle course between". But why pray at all? If everything is predestined like the Quran states many places, and impossible to change, prayer is just a vase of time and effort - and the same are sacrifices.

400 17/111a: "Praise be to Allah - - -". Please read 1/1a above and see if you think he deserves any praise.

*401 17/111b: “- - - Allah, Who begets no son - - -”. Well, Jesus called Yahweh “father” many times (the word "father" for the relationship Yahweh/Jesus is used at least 204 times in the Bible, and the word "son" at least 87 times - frequently by Jesus, who also the Quran says was reliable - and remember: The Bible is proved not falsified). Besides it is funny to read the Quran scolding Arabs to believe Allah had daughters - al-Lat, al-Uzza and (al-) Manat - because it is plain stupidity to believe a god who wanted family, would choose to have daughters. He was sure to choose sons. That "imbecility" was enough proof in the man-centered old Arabia, to “prove” that the very idea had to be wrong. But when Yahweh may be wanted some company - a son - that is an utter impossibility in spite of this. Even more funny because the Quran, Muhammad, Islam and Muslims tell it is impossible for mere humans to understand a god - - - but everyone seems to be sure that a god wants to be alone, and neither do they ask if a god perhaps has a reason (that we may or may not understand) for having a son, nor ask if he just wants company. Who knows a god's wishes?

*402 17/111c: “- - - and has no partner in (His) dominion - - -”. Well, Islam says that Allah is the same god as Yahweh. If we discuss from that hypothetical statement just here and say Allah = Yahweh: In the very old Hebrew religion there was a female partner/wife of Yahweh - his Amat (source: New Scientist and at least two others). In the strictly masculine Semitic culture the Amat was forgotten over the centuries. But maybe she still existed all the same at the time of Muhammad - and maybe even today? Also see 25/2 and 72/3 below.

403 17/111d: "- - - His (Allah's*) greatness and glory!" No comments - but see 1/1a above.

Surah 17: Sub-total 403 + 9292 = 9695 comments.

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NB: If you find any mistakes anywhere, please inform us. If it is a real mistake, it will be corrected. Please also inform us if we have overlooked points or errors.


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This work was upload with assistance of M. A. Khan, editor of islam-watch.org and the author of "Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism, and Slavery".