PART VII, CHAPTER 1 (= VII-1-0-0)

FACTS VS. CLAIMS, STATEMENTS, (INVALID) "SIGNS", (INVALID) "PROOFS", ETC. IN THE QURAN: THE QURAN AND ALLAH ACCORDING TO THE QURAN, MUHAMMAD, ISLAM, AND ALLAH

IS ALLAH A BETTER OR MORE BENEVOLENT GOD THAN YAHWEH/GOD?

Comments in this book numbered by 3 numbers (included 00 or 0) a few places followed by one small letter = clear cases. Comments numbered by 00 or 0 followed by 1, 2 or 3 letters (big or small) = likely cases.

It has for a long time been politically correct to talk bad about Christians and the Bible, and sometimes say the Islam is a far less bloody religion with a less bloody history and a less brutal god.

There are three levels for such a discussion:

1. To compare the teachings as given in the holy books (+ Hadiths for Islam).
2. To compare how the teachings are thought from pulpits, etc. - i.e. how is the real teaching today.
3. How is the religion disused for economic or political purposes or for gaining power?

As for Christianity there is one more point that often is pushed aside: The religion is built on the New Testament of the Bible, with the far harder Old Testament mainly as historical background (it is the Jews that builds on the Old Testament). A fact that often is forgotten or "forgotten".

And finally: Most fighting and wars throughout history and pre-history have been for riches and power, NOT for religion. Religion has often been disused for pepping up people and soldiers, and not infrequently the priests and mullahs have followed shortly behind. Also religion has sometimes been used for atrocities - extreme examples are the Spaniards in South and Middle America, and Muslims in Arabia, the Middle East and Egypt during and after the conquests not to mention in south Asia - especially in Sind and the rest od old India, plus in Armenia, etc., and in parts of Africa. But mainly the real reasons have been riches, included slaves and power and power policy.

Often the purpose of a discussion is not to find the truth, but to win the discussion or to defend one’s point of view. Then the exchange of arguments often gets dirty with a real mixing up of arguments. Islam is said to be a good and peaceful religion because most people in the west knows nothing about the mass murders, pogroms, wars, enslavement, suppression, etc. in Islamic parts of the world - and the Jews could live in parts of Muslim area when they had to leave Spain. The Christian religion is bad, because Yahweh let Jews fight wars 2700 - 4000 years ago. But Yahweh presented a much milder side of his teachings when he sent Jesus 2ooo years ago according to the Christians. And most likely they speak the truth, for the NT really is a lot milder and more human than the OT. Jesus also initiated the “new pact” that came instead of the “old pact”, and he nullified a number of the old mosaic laws.

Christians also are bad because they around 1700 or a bit before started to become better organized and more inventive so they also got better weapons and ridher and got the upper hand, and did what all empires through history and pre-history have done: Set out to gain wealth and more power - just like f. ex. the Muslims before them. But the conquering Muslims are forgotten and the bad Christians remain - even though it was the businessmen and the politicians that took colonies, not the religion.

Yes, if you read the holy books of the big religions, you will find that the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Buddha are the most pacifistic, the most human and the most peaceful ones.

Oh, yes, we hear the scream from the ones not able to think outside what is politically correct. We are un-normal enough to search for what is the truth, and do not care about what is politically correct - we have knowledge, books and brains ourselves. But mind you: We are talking about the contents of the holy books, not about how the religions have been used or disused.

And here we finally come to the point: When many “combatants” mix the ideals with disuse, and wars for money and power with the “theoretical” religions in one unholy soup, the solution frequently can be used to kill the stupid opponent that does not understand that “I” am right.

If one is to compare religions or gods, one has to compare the same level: Ideals with ideals, the teachings of today with the teachings of today, disuse with disuse. If one compares the ideals of Islam with disuse of the Bible, one can get any result one wants, except the truth. This especially if one use the peaceful, but to terrorists and other militants often outdated surahs from Mecca, and conveniently (?) “forget” that they often are abrogated (made invalid and void) by newer and bloodier ones from Medina. As for use and disuse, Islam has not more to boast of than Europe. Many of the conquests were lessons in inhuman terror. The ruleing frequently were no better than the worst European - Sind (now approximately Pakistan) can easily be compared to Belgium’s Congo f. ex. In Muslims’ history the Muslim rulers were greater heroes the worse they treated the locals, and the more non-Muslims they murdered. The only one of those rulers in India who treated the locals somewhat human - Akbar the Great (1542-1605) - Muslims recon to be at best mediocre. Europe colony history has to look far and wide to find the like of Armenia - 1.2 mills. systematically murdered in a few years by their Turkish masters (Turkey and Islam still do not have the moral stamina to meet that part of their past). Also the original conquering of Armenia - and many other places - was an orgy in blood and slaughtering. There were excesses also in Africa, f. ex. the conquest of Egypt, with city after city murdered to the last baby - and if Islam has ever had the backbone to make an estimate of how many slaves Muslims have kidnapped or bought out of Africa - and Asia - we at least have never seen that number. As the enslavement continued from the very start of Islam and before, and lasted far into the 1900s and even 2000s, the number is rather high in the millions.

I think we will find one Muslim excess for each European - at least. But the behaviour and atrocities of the Muslims are much less known, and it is not politically correct to speak about them. When it comes to the daily teachings of today, there is little doubt that some madrasas and mosques have a seriously and highly more hateful teaching than any Christian church or school. And rhe same compared to most other religions.

Then remain the ideals compared to the ideals - the Holy Quran compared to the Holy Bible.

What many people do not know is that the Quran consists of two parts - the surahs from Mecca (some 80-90 surahs - as one do not know the age of all of them, it is not possible to say the exact number, but perhaps 86) and the ones from Medina (at least 22 surahs). As they are placed in one melee in the book, it is not easy to see which is which, and that may be a reason why this fact is not well known.

But there are great differences between the surahs from Mecca and the ones from Medina. The ones from Mecca are mainly peaceful and human. Than suddenly, as Muhammad fled to Medina and needed warriors to start his highwayman career and later his warlord career, the religion changed dramatically to one of hate and suppression, murder, rape and war. Muslims will tell you it is all about war of defence, but read it yourself, and you will find that that is rubbish - the texts from Medina are mainly incitement to war and plunder and rape and enslavement and killing other good things for Allah, and becoming rich by stealing “good and lawfully”, but little about self defence. Whether it was Allah who found that a peaceful and quite good religion was not according to his taste come to think about it, and wanted more hate and rape and blood, or if it simply was Muhammad who needed the hate and the warriors to make a living from stealing and extortion and killing - and later as a hard warlord - is not for us to say.

The result is dramatic, though, because according to surah 2/106 (saying that surahs/verses may be substituted for something similar or “better”) and according to Islam, when two or more surahs differ in meaning, the youngest one normally is the right one. Because of this the sometimes benevolent surahs for Mecca often are void and invalid if the far harsher and more inhuman ones from Medina say something else.

Just read the surahs yourself in chronological order and be shocked - about the final religion and about the gruesome warrior god behind it.

One may wonder: How can the god behind Islam of Mecca be the same god as the god behind Islam of Medina? - there are huge differences. Too huge if not something is wrong or the god ill.

That also the Bible is made up of two main parts, is better known - the Old Testament (a bit more than ¾) and the New Testament (a bit less than ¼ - in our book some 1170 pages compared to some 320 pages for OT).

The main thing for Christians is the NT, whereas the OT as said before mostly is historical background (but the Jews do not believe in NT at all, and teach according to OT). And the Yahweh/God you meet in NT and its new covenant is a far more benevolent and good god than the strict one in OT, though the difference is not comparable to the change of Allah of Medina vs. Allah of Mecca. Muslims tell that the reason why the god has given new teachings now and then, is that the world has been changing, and because of that new rules have had to be made. Perhaps they are right and Yahweh/God found it was high time and conditions on parts of the Earth for a change to a more peaceful religion and sent Jesus? Because as an ideal there is no doubt whatsoever that the teachings of Jesus and those of Buddha are the two most peaceful, pacifist, and benevolent of all the large religions. (Before you go into a political or other fit of rage: Remember we talk about the teachings, not about the disuse or the slander - blaming religion for what f. ex. was done from greed or hunger for power).

To ask for which god - Yahweh/God as we meet him in NT, or Allah as we meet him in Medina (and that is where we have to meet him, as those surahs are the youngest and thus the most correct ones according to Islam - not the peaceful god, but the hate and war god) - is the best and most benevolent of the two, is to waste time and energy. The difference is colossal - just read the ca. 22 surahs from Medina and the NT one single time, and you will ask not one question. Neither will you make one single protest. There is not one doubt.

But then there is the question of the Yahweh of the OT - from before Jesus changed laws and rules from the old. Many when they are discussing are not honest enough, fair enough or have too little knowledge to distinguish between before and after Jesus and the change to Yahweh’s and Jesus' much milder teaching. They use wars or killings from OT as examples for the bad Christian religion, even though that is not part of that religion, except as part of the history Jesus left behind in his teachings of “the New Pact”. OT has meanings to Christians, but like local football a far off place compared to Premier League, or may be a better comparison is history lessons at school in your youth compared with daily life today.

Therefore, let us compare also the Yahweh of the OT with Allah in his final and present and everlasting image: The excesses Yahweh did, or let the Jews do, in OT was mostly to make room for Israel - place for a national country, big or small - in the area east of the Mediterranean Sea 2ooo-4ooo years ago. The Quran talks about hate and war and suppression today, tomorrow and forever. The excesses of OT are so well known, that we concentrate on the far less known excesses of Allah, as told in the Quran - and remember: In contrast to OT they are not only some pieces of history, but ideals and orders for all the future:

001 3/137: “- - - travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those (non-Muslims*) who rejected the Truth (Islam*)”. In and around Arabia there were scattered ruins. Muhammad told that all those were remnants from cities and towns and hamlets punished by Allah, because they would not become Muslims. Science has other explanations, but if the Quran tells the truth, Allah killed the people in all these places. May be more here than Yahweh in his entire career, because even if the ruins were scattered, the area was wide, making many ruins all together. After all Yahweh mainly made space for Israel, and Israel is a small country - and the Jews killed far from all the inhabitants from the times before they came. In addition there were former ruins that were fixed or rebuilt and used for living at the time of Muhammad when this was told - also the former users of those places had been killed by Allah for their sins, according to Islam.

002 4/6: “See they (people*) not how many of those before them We (Allah*) did destroy? - generations We had established on earth, in strength such as We have not given you (Muslims*) - --”. An unspecified number killed, but obviously many - generations in plural and each more populous - or strong - than the Muslims (this was most likely said in 625, and the Muslims had started to gain many followers and strength). May be Yahweh should hurry up, not to be too far behind in the competition of who killed most?

003 10/13: “Generations before you (non-Muslims*) We (Allah*) destroyed when they did wrong - - -”. Obey Allah or die - and many did die. At least that is what the Quran tells.

004 11/60: “Removed (from sight (= killed*)) were ‘Ad (large and rich Arabian tribe, “borrowed” from Arabian folk tales*)”. Some thousands more killed by Allah.

005 11/67: “The (mighty) Blast overtook the wrongdoers (Thamud - another large and rich tribe “borrowed” from Arabian folk tales*), and they lay prostrate (and dead*) in their homes before the morning - - -”. Another some thousands killed.

006 11/95: “- - - the Madyan (still another tribe - see 11/60 and 11/67*) were removed (killed*) - - -”. Some hundreds or thousands corpses more on Allah’s score.

007 12/109: “Do they (non-Muslims*) not travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those before them?” Mecca was a business centre with connections from at least Egypt and Constantinople to black East Africa and to India and even China. There were many ruins in all that wide area, even if they were scattered. All ruins were empty of people, because Allah had killed them because they refused to become Muslims, according to Muhammad, and the same with all the places which had become empty but where now new tribes lived. If Muhammad was right, Yahweh had better hurry up not to end too far behind Allah in the field of killing - not to say the killing fields.

008 15/74: “And We (Allah*) turned (the Cities (Sodom and Gomorrah - remember that the Quran claims that Allah = Yahweh*) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay”. Some more dead victims.

009 15/80+83: “The people of the Rocky Tract (Al-Hidjr in northern Hidjaz in Arabia*) - - - the (mighty) Blast sized them in the morning (and killed them*)”.

010 16/26: “- - - Allah took their (folks of the older times*) structures from their foundations, and the roof fell down on them from above (and killed them*).” The score is growing.

011 17/16: “When We (Allah*) decide to destroy a population - - -”. No comments.

012 !7/17: “How many generations have We (Allah*) destroyed after Noah?” Allah has killed so many generations that he is not sure of the number. And it is a question of killing (destroying), not of natural death. Yahweh who just made room for Israel/the Jews to let them have their own small country + helped them a little now and then, hardly is even in the same league as Allah.

013 19/98: “But how many (countless) generations before them (Muhammad’s followers*) have We (Allah*) destroyed?” See 17/17 just above. The situation for Yahweh: Even further behind in the competition than we thought.

014 20/128: “Is it not a warning to such men (to call to mind) how many generations before them We (Allah*) destroyed, in whose haunts they (now) move? Verily, in this are Signs for men endued with understanding.” It seems "Islam" was then like now (at least some parts of Islam): Huge acts of terror and murder is a warning: Do as we want or we will murder more people. A shining example for terrorists. And the count of corpses reaches high numbers.

015 21/6: “- - - not one of the populations which We (Allah*) destroyed believed (were Muslims*)”. Well, there is not known one single population of Muslims before Muhammad, in spite of what the Quran and Islam say. And of monotheists (which Islam claims were Muslims in older times, but without one single trace of this ever found) there were mainly the Jews and lather the Christians. At the time of Muhammad there also was a small sect of Arab monotheists - perhaps inspired by the Jews and the Christians.

016 21/9: “- - - We (Allah*) destroyed those who transgressed bounds (did not obey the teachings of his prophets*)”. Remember that according to Hadith there had been at least 124ooo prophets before Muhammad, and hardly a trace of monotheism from old times except the Jews and later the Christians. Allah must have “destroyed” an uncountable number of people. Poor Yahweh - he is in kindergarten in this competition.

017 22/48: “In the end I (Allah*) punished them (killed the wrongdoers/non-Muslims*). To Me is the destination (of all)”. F. ex. it is for Allah to decide whom to kill.

018 23/41: “And the Blast overtook them (people some generations after Noah*) with justice (and killed them*), and we made them as rubbish of dead leafs - - -”. Yahweh caused little killing between Noah and Abraham, but Allah seems to have been busy most of the time.

019 25/36: “’Go ye both (Moses and Aaron - remember that Islam claims Allah is the same god as Yahweh - what Yahweh did, consequently Allah did*), to the people (the people of Egypt*) who have rejected our Signs’. And those (people) We destroyed with utter destruction”. Some more mass murder.

020 25/37: “And the people of Noah - - - We (Allah*) drowned them - - -”. See 25/36 above.

021 25/38 + 39: “- - - also ’Ad and Thamud and the People of the Rass (3 large tribes “borrowed” from Arab folklore*), and many generations between them - - - and each one We (Allah*) broke to utter annihilation - - -”. It is not easy for Yahweh/God to compete with all this wholesale slaughter.

022 28/43: “We (Allah*) revealed to Moses the Book (wrong - the books of Moses were written centuries later according to science*) after We had destroyed the earlier generations - - -”. More generations between Noah and Moses killed off - Allah was a far keener worker than Yahweh, at least in the killing business.

023 43/6 - 8: “But how many were the prophets We (Allah*) sent (a rhetoric question as Hadith tells there were at least 124ooo*) amongst the peoples of the old? But never came there a prophet to them but they mocked him. So we destroyed them - - -”. With this many prophets, the expression “wholesale slaughter” is insignificant in the extreme. Yahweh is hardly a baby in this competition.

POST SCRIPTUM FOR CHAPTER VII/2.

If you read the Quran you will find many more places where the book tells about - nearly boasts about - large scale atrocities and murder. But we stop here, not to make Yahweh lose face too badly.

Actually Yahweh had no chance in this competition. As the Quran claims Allah is the same god as Yahweh, Allah has done all the things Yahweh did according to the old book. But in addition Allah has a long list of grave atrocities and large-scale murder, where Yahweh was not involved.

There is little doubt who is the hardest god. This even more so as Allah evolved to the present war god from Medina. Whereas Yahweh became milder - perhsps because times changed (like Islam explains) for the better some places on Earth and it was time for a milder religion?

16. 2. 09

NB: If you find any mistakes anywhere, please inform us. If it is a real mistake, it will be corrected.

NB, NB, NB:

1. Read first the 2 small chapters "Some Essentials for how the Quran is to be read and understood" (VII-10-1) and "The Quran is to be understood literally if nothing else is indicated" (VII-10-2).

2. http://www.1000mistakes.com is blocked by many Muslim authorities. To debate with persons in such areas, cut and paste what you want from the pages and send it under titles different from http://www.1000mistakes.com.

3. http://www.1000mistakes.com is one of 9 pages which Muslim organisetions warned especially against in 2008 and 2009 - it could make especially procelytes lose their belief in Islam; correct and "down-to-the-earth" information works. In this connection it is worth noting that in the "warning" http://www.1000mistakes.com was one of 3 which neither was accused of bringing wrong facts, nor of being a hate page.

4. Comment 141 (to verse 6/149) in “The Message of the Quran” (see point 5) explains (translated from Swedish) about Allah's claimed omniscience vs. man's claimed free will:

“With other words: The real connection between Allah’s knowledge about the future (and consequently about the unavoidable in what is to happen in the future*) on one side and man’s relatively (!!*) free will on the other – two statements that seems to contradict each other – lies outside what is possible for humans to understand, but as both statement are made from Allah (in the Quran*) both must be true”. Unbelievable. Blind belief is the only correct and intelligent way of life, even in the face of the utterly impossible!!

5. And an afterthought: In the book “The Message of the Quran”, certified by Al-Azhar Al-Sharif Islamic Research Academy in Cairo (one of the 2-3 top universities in the Muslim world on such subjects) in a letter dated 27. Dec. 1998, it is admitted rather reluctantly that there are no proofs for Allah, and that it is not possible to prove him. An additonal point here is that if there is no proof for Allah and impossible to prove him, automatically there also is no proof for, and impossible to prove Muhammad's claimed connection to a god. And if there is no Allah and/or no connection between Muhammad and a god, what then is Muhammad? - and what than is Islam? - a made up, invalid religion?

6. Further: All the mistakes, contradictions, etc. in that book prove 100% that the Quran is not made by an omniscient god - no god makes such and so many mistakes, etc. If then Islam is a made up religion, what then about all the Muslims who have been prohibitted from looking for a real religion (if such one exists)? And where will they in case wake up after living and practising such an inhuman war religion like Islam is according to the Quran (and to Hadiths), if there is a second life somewhere? - Hell or Paradise?

7. NB and PS: No matter how sure you are about something, if it is not proved, it is not knowledge, only belief or strong belief, and can be wrong. Only what is proved or possible to prove is knowledge.

(As http://www.1000mistakes.com is blocked in many Muslim areas - which shows they are afraid of it and lack arguments (if they had real arguments for http://www.1000mistakes.com is wrong, blocking was unneccessary) - "cut and paste" whatever you want from it and send if you want to inform or to debate there. Remember to omit the name http://www.1000mistakes.com).

PS: If we are blocked centrally - f. ex. by spam (there is too much at times already from unfriendly sources) we will reopen with new address somewhere else, and announce the new address om f. ex. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam. Also if your comments to us do not reach us, any comments posted on a thread with "1000 mistakes" in the title on that forum will be read by us - it is a big international debate page. We cannot answer on that page, though, as it is not safe enough - we have had death threaths (better to kill an opponent, than to check if a religion brainwashed into you only on the word of a man who even practised lies (f. ex. "war is deceit") and advocated breaking even your oaths if that gave a better result, is true ot made up - old beliefs are hard to question).

Please inform all and everybody and all relevant fora - f. ex. Internet pages for debate or information - about the address http://www.1000mistakes.com. It is information that is urgently needed by many, not least by Muslims. No god made a book with so many mistakes and other wrongs - and if the Quran and Islam are made up by humans or dark forces, where are the followers of this inhumanly dark and brutal war religion heading for in a possible next life?