PART V, CHAPTER 1, (= V-1-0-0)

NON-MUSLIMS UNDER ISLAM ACCORDING TO THE QURAN, THE HOLY BOOK OF MUHAMMAD, MUSLIMS, ISLAM, AND ALLAH

“GOOD” VERSES IN THE QURAN FOR NON – MUSLINS.

Comments in this book numbered by 3 numbers (included 00 or 0) a few places followed by one small letter = clear cases. Comments numbered by 00 or 0 followed by 1, 2 or 3 letters (big or small) = likely cases.

Also see chapters “Muslims are better”, “Make no friends with non-Muslims”, and “Incitement to dislike, hate and suppression”. This chapter overlap with those, but the others are about promotion of general dislike, distance from others and own superiority - making an "enemy-picture" - whereas this chapter mainly is about the direct incitement and motivation for war.

There are two aspects of this point: Islam and non-Muslims and - not to say versus - Islam and Muslims.

Islam and non-Muslims is a dark history - not quite black, but nearly - in spite of the good points used as glossy flagships in official speeches and propaganda. But after all not entirely black, especially if you “forget” that the softer rules from Mecca often became overridden by the much harder ones from the new, much changed religion from Medina - partly because some laws and rules were at least theoretically the same for everybody.

Islam and Muslims is a more human story - but also here: Especially if you forget that the soft rules from Mecca often is overridden by the new and much harsher and inhuman Islam from Medina.

But beware that few, if any, of the ethic and moral codexes – codexes, not philosophy - behind even this part of Islam were Muhammad’s ideas. They were taken mainly from neighbouring cultures - Jewish, Christian, and Persian mostly, but also a little from others included old Arab ones and then adjusted for a war religion.

To mention two of Islam’s “flagships” concerning Islam and Muslims:

1. Muhammad put an end to killing girl babies (6/51). This is true, but a very enlarged truth. It today is clear - and agreed to also by Muslims scholars - that even if such killing was permitted, it seldom happened. May be only during rare religious ceremonies. Muhammad simply disused the fact to “sanctify” his teachings.
2. The situation for women became much better under Islam, Muslims like to tell. Also this is far less than half the truth.

It may be true for women living in towns at least in parts of Arabia - but how many lived in towns and how many lived in rural areas around 610 - 632 AD?

In some towns (f. ex. Medina), in rural areas and also among the Bedouins the situation was quite different. The woman was on a much more equal footing to the man, and even could be leaders - yes, in some cases even leaders in war. For all Arab women except some of the relatively few city dwellers Islam was a large step the wrong way.

The same was the situation for women in other cultures that became Muslim - they very often had a better, freer and safer life before Islam. Remember that below there are mentioned only the positive rules and laws - included religious points.

A. ISLAM AND NON-MUSLIMS.

001 (616-620 AD - no. 053) 45/14: “Tell those who believe (Muslims*), to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah (non-Muslims*): it is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned”. A mild and human verse - nearly like the NT. But overridden by the bloody and hateful ones in the surahs from Medina.

002 (622-624* AD - no. 88) 2/62: “Those who believe (in the Quran), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians - any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord (Allah*)- - -”. A nice verse. (The first time in Medina Muhammad hoped to merge with the rather large Jewish congregations, and talked accordingly.)

003 (622 AD - no. 88) 2/256: “Let there be no compulsions in religion - - -”. This is an often-quoted alibi by Muslims. But this was the very first full surah in Medina. Muhammad tried to make friends with the Jews and merge with them - perhaps as at least one of the leaders. Later surahs were harsher - and reality sometimes much harsher. This verse in reality is abrogated - mad invalid - by at least some 30 later harsh verses.

004 (632 AD - no. 107) 5/69: Here 2/62 (see above) is repeated nearly unabridged in meaning, and here it should carry more weight, as it is one of the last surahs, and consequently not abrogated.

005 (632 AD - no. 107) 5/82: “- - - nearest among them (non-Muslims*) in love to the believers (Muslims*) wilt thou find those who say: We are Christians - - -”. A positive quotation for Christians - especially since this is a surah so late, that it hardly is abrogated. There are limitations to the quotation, though.

There is a sad addition to this – or two:

1. We have been asking around, included among Muslims, to see if we have overlooked any verses good to non-Muslims, but in vain. There may be a few more, but we have been unable to find them.
2. Of these pitifully few, two are clearly abrogated and made invalid by the harsh surahs from Medina – f. ex. by the “Sword Verse” (9/5). Verse no. 45/14 and no.2/256 – one of the “flagships” for some Muslims claiming that Islam is benevolent towards non-Muslims - very obviously are not valid any more. Besides no. 2/62 may be abrogated, and in any case have no value in this life for non-Muslims living in a Muslim society. And finally no. 5/82 may also be invalid, as it was written from a special situation – the fact that many of the scattered Christians in the area were learned and tolerant persons. Besides the verse is of little value for Christians, as it talks about the situation for Muslims, not for Christians.

Only these few verses out of more than 6ooo in the Quran may be - may be - of value especially for non-Muslims. (But whether it always is respected by all Muslims - or even if they are abrogated (made invalid) is another question). So pitifully few (if we have found all) in the whole book – in a religion insisting that it is the most benevolent in the world also for non-believers.

B. GENERAL RULES - THEORETICALLY ALSO FOR NON-MUSLIMS.

007 (614-615 AD - no. 035) 19/76: “- - - Good Deeds, are best in the sight of thy Lord - - -”. For non-Muslims this of course only counted if they came to Paradise (there was a possibility for this for Jews and Christians, but not for Pagans).

008 (614-617 AD - no. 038) 31/17: “- - - enjoin what is just, and forbid what is wrong - - -”. This is said to Muslims, but at least theoretically also non-Muslims should be treated justly. (Though in reality that far from always was the case - not even in Muslim laws.)

009 (615-616 AD - no. 042) 26/181-183: “Give just measures, and cause no loss (to others by fraud). And weigh with scales true and upright. And withhold not things justly due to men, and do no evil in the land, working mischief.” Very obvious rules, but ok to have them stated.

010 (616 – 618 AD – no. 49) 41/34: “Nor can Goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate.” Look at the difference between this – nearly like Jesus – in ca. 616 – 618 AD, and compare it to what Islam became after 622 AD. Can a god have changed hi mind this enormously much? – or is it a man with a mission that found a more brutal mission worked better and gave more power?

011 (621 AD – no. 062) 7/85: “Give just measure and weight, not withhold from people the things that are their due.” In business Muhammad preached “fair deal”, and mostly that included also non-Muslims – though the expression “Arab salesman” represented the very bottom of honesty and reliability among sailors – and was used that way – at least up to a few decades ago. (One should here not mention that Muhammad was an Arab salesman till he started his religion.)

012 (621 AD - no. 063) 6/151: “- - - take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law”. Nice and good - but overridden by the bloody surahs from Medina.

013 (621 AD - no. 063) 6/152: “And come not neigh to the orphan’s property - - - give measure and weight with (full) justice - - - speak justly, even if a near relative is concerned.” Ok rules except that towards non-Muslims it was/is permitted to be dishonest under certain circumstances.

014 (621 AD - no. 064) 28/77: “Allah loveth not those who do mischief”. But how much of this sentence was overridden by surahs from Medina when it comes to treatment of non-Muslims?

015 (621 AD? - no. 065) 17/31: “Kill not your children for fear of want - - -”. Girl babies were sometimes killed in the old Arab society - though to a much less degree than Muslims sometimes say.

016 (621 AD? - no. 065) 17/33: “Nor take life - which Allah hath made sacred - except for just cause”. The problem is that the surahs from Medina made so many causes just - or possible to sound just.

017 (621 AD? - no. 065) 17/34-35: “Come not neigh to the orphan’s property - - - (and*) give full measure when ye measure, and weigh with a balance that is straight - - -”. Deal honestly.

018 (622 AD, Mecca - no. 078) 16/90: “Allah commands justice, doing the good, and liberty to kith and kin, and He forbids shameful deeds, and injustice and rebellion - - -”. Good enough, except for slaves, women, and after coming to Medina also except non-Muslims when mild verses were substituted for harsher.

019 (622 AD Mecca or Medina unsure - no. 086) 83/1-3: “woe to those who deal in fraud - - - (and*) give less than due.” Be honest in business.

020 (622-624 AD - no. 88) 2/193: “- - - if they (non-Muslim Arabs*) cease (to fight*), let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.” Well, this surah is reckoned to be the first full one in Medina - it became harsher later. And practise often was MUCH harsher - and for non-Muslims it is the Muslims’ practice that counts when they kill or rape or suppress you - not nice words.

021 (622-624 AD - no. 88) 2/280: “If the debtor is in a difficulty, grant him time till it is easy for him to repay.” Business laws were ok up to a point.

022 (624 AD - no. 90) 8/61: “But if the enemy (non-Muslim Arabs*) incline towards peace, do thou (Muslims*) (also) incline towards peace”. Nice words - and may be Muhammad meant it at that time. But surahs and reality changed as Muhammad gained strength and power - changed also for non-Muslim Arabs (many were murdered if they did not want to become Muslims).

023 (629-630 AD - no. 102) 60/7: “It may be that Allah will grant love (and friendship) between you and those you whom you (now) hold for enemies.” This was written about the time Muhammad took Mecca. There was no real fighting at the take over, and he moestly treated the people of Mecca very lenient (nearly the only time he did so).

024 (629-630 AD - no. 102) 60/8: “Allah forbids you (Muslims*) not, with regards to those who fight you not for (your) Faith (Islam*) - - - from dealing kindly and justly with them”. See 60/7 just above.

025 (631 AD – no. ) 49/9: “If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest you harm people unwittingly - - -.” But this is not practised 100% to use an understatement, when it comes to “infidels”.

026 (631 AD - no. 105) 9/7: “How can there be a league - - - with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque”. In 628 Muhammad made a treaty in Huddaybiyyah near Mecca with the leaders of the town - he was not strong enough to take Mecca yet. It was an agreement that should last for 10 years, but in 630 AD Muhammad entered Mecca with a great army and took it without real fighting. As this is written one year after he broke the agreement and took the town, we are not convinced this really is a statement positive for Islam. Especially as it tells there can be no other agreements with pagans than this - - - and even this he broke. (Muslims blame the leaders of Mecca - it always is good policy to blame others.)

027 (632 AD - no. 107) 5/8: “Stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice”. Had this been kept rigorously, it had meant a lot for the communities.

028 (632 AD - no. 107) 5/42: “If thou (Muslim) judge, judge in equity between them (non-Muslims)”. Fair principle. But this is only when both parts are non-Muslims.

029 (Year unknown - no. 110) 55/9: “So establish weight with justice and fall not short in the balance”. Be honest in business

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C. ISLAM AND MUSLIMS

These we omit here, as they are so obvious. There are a number of verses good for Muslims, but nothing very special, neither morally nor ethically, as most of it Muhammad took from the old Arabs or from neighbouring cultures. Laws/rules concerning women and slaves are in the respective chapters. Laws and rules concerning war are in chapter IV, though not mentioned explisit.

POST SCRIPTURE FOR CHAPTER V/I.

As you see, there are some verses “soft” on non-Muslims, too. But so pitifully few compared to the harsh - and often hateful - ones. It is unlikely we have all such verses here, but at least many of them of them, except the ones that are not directly part of the laws.

There also is the problem of “Taqiyya” - the lawful lie to non-Muslims. F. ex. surah 4/142 tells that Allah will overreach them - and then of course Muslims, too, are permitted to overreach them. Which sometimes made the “good” verses invalid for non-Muslims in the past. And in the future -?

NB: If you find any mistakes anywhere, please inform us. If it is a real mistake, it will be corrected.

NB, NB, NB:

1. Read first the 2 small chapters "Some Essentials for how the Quran is to be read and understood" (VII-10-1) and "The Quran is to be understood literally if nothing else is indicated" (VII-10-2).

2. http://www.1000mistakes.com is blocked by many Muslim authorities. To debate with persons in such areas, cut and paste what you want from the pages and send it under titles different from http://www.1000mistakes.com.

3. http://www.1000mistakes.com is one of 9 pages which Muslim organisetions warned especially against in 2008 and 2009 - it could make especially procelytes lose their belief in Islam; correct and "down-to-the-earth" information works. In this connection it is worth noting that in the "warning" http://www.1000mistakes.com was one of 3 which neither was accused of bringing wrong facts, nor of being a hate page.

4. Comment 141 (to verse 6/149) in “The Message of the Quran” (see point 5) explains (translated from Swedish) about Allah's claimed omniscience vs. man's claimed free will:

“With other words: The real connection between Allah’s knowledge about the future (and consequently about the unavoidable in what is to happen in the future*) on one side and man’s relatively (!!*) free will on the other – two statements that seems to contradict each other – lies outside what is possible for humans to understand, but as both statement are made from Allah (in the Quran*) both must be true”. Unbelievable. Blind belief is the only correct and intelligent way of life, even in the face of the utterly impossible!!

5. And an afterthought: In the book “The Message of the Quran”, certified by Al-Azhar Al-Sharif Islamic Research Academy in Cairo (one of the 2-3 top universities in the Muslim world on such subjects) in a letter dated 27. Dec. 1998, it is admitted rather reluctantly that there are no proofs for Allah, and that it is not possible to prove him. An additonal point here is that if there is no proof for Allah and impossible to prove him, automatically there also is no proof for, and impossible to prove Muhammad's claimed connection to a god. And if there is no Allah and/or no connection between Muhammad and a god, what then is Muhammad? - and what than is Islam? - a made up, invalid religion?

6. Further: All the mistakes, contradictions, etc. in that book prove 100% that the Quran is not made by an omniscient god - no god makes such and so many mistakes, etc. If then Islam is a made up religion, what then about all the Muslims who have been prohibitted from looking for a real religion (if such one exists)? And where will they in case wake up after living and practising such an inhuman war religion like Islam is according to the Quran (and to Hadiths), if there is a second life somewhere? - Hell or Paradise?

7. NB and PS: No matter how sure you are about something, if it is not proved, it is not knowledge, only belief or strong belief, and can be wrong. Only what is proved or possible to prove is knowledge.

(As http://www.1000mistakes.com is blocked in many Muslim areas - which shows they are afraid of it and lack arguments (if they had real arguments for http://www.1000mistakes.com is wrong, blocking was unneccessary) - "cut and paste" whatever you want from it and send if you want to inform or to debate there. Remember to omit the name http://www.1000mistakes.com).

PS: If we are blocked centrally - f. ex. by spam (there is too much at times already from unfriendly sources) we will reopen with new address somewhere else, and announce the new address om f. ex. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam. Also if your comments to us do not reach us, any comments posted on a thread with "1000 mistakes" in the title on that forum will be read by us - it is a big international debate page. We cannot answer on that page, though, as it is not safe enough - we have had death threaths (better to kill an opponent, than to check if a religion brainwashed into you only on the word of a man who even practised lies (f. ex. "war is deceit") and advocated breaking even your oaths if that gave a better result, is true ot made up - old beliefs are hard to question).

Please inform all and everybody and all relevant fora - f. ex. Internet pages for debate or information - about the address http://www.1000mistakes.com. It is information that is urgently needed by many, not least by Muslims. No god made a book with so many mistakes and other wrongs - and if the Quran and Islam are made up by humans or dark forces, where are the followers of this inhumanly dark and brutal war religion heading for in a possible next life?