PART I, CHAPTER 12 (= I-12-0-0)
A SERIOUS PS ABOUT ISLAM AND MUSLIMS
(PART I, CHAPTERS 1 - 14 = SOME SPECIAL ASPECTS OF ISLAM AS TOLD IN THE QURAN - THE HOLY BOOK OF MUHAMMAD, MUSLIMS, ISLAM, AND ALLAH.)
Comments in this book numbered by 3 numbers (included 00 or 0) a few places followed by one small letter = clear cases. Comments numbered by 00 or 0 followed by 1, 2 or 3 letters (big or small) = likely cases.
WHEN READING THE QURAN - AND EVEN MORE WHEN YOU ARE READING COMMENTS, EXPLANATIONS OR “EXPLANATIONS” ABOUT WHAT IS TOLD IN THE BOOK, YOU SHOULD REMEMBER:
- Muslims seldom or never use critical thinking when thinking or talking about their religion. They accept the Quran as the ultimate truth, and then try to adjust reality if “the map does not fit the terrain”. This no matter how obvious the mistake is.
- Explaining things, Muslims often make conclusions going further than logic really permits.
- Explaining things, Muslims often - often - states things for true that are not proved.
- Explaining things, Muslims often states that they are right without proofs, and then demand proofs from any opponent. (Efficient way to “win” a discussion). Do not accept this – demand documentation and proofs for any statement, as they very often are wrong or unproven claims only.
- Muslims tend to not accept science if that science collide with their religion.
- Muslims tends to use science if it can be made to look - sometimes with a twist or two - like it supports their religion. Big Bang f. ex. is used to prove that the Quran is right when it says that the heavens and the Earth was once one body - even if it is easy to show it is wrong. Or that the big flood really was the flooding of the empty basin that became the Mediterranean Sea (f. ex. ”The Message of the Quran”, certified by Al-Azhar Al-Sharif Islamic Research Academy in Cairo) - which is even more easy to prove wrong, as that happened some 4 - 5 million years ago, before Homo Sapiens (modern man) even existed, and besides took many years to happen - water only rising some meters a year - as the strait was narrow in the beginning and the basin big).
- The Quran tells it is to be read literally. All the same some Muslims use “advanced” arguments to “explain” that points or verses they do not want to be mistakes, are figurative ones - alegories.
- There is not one single valid proof for a god in the Quran, with the possible exception of some “proofs” taken from the Bible - and they speak about the Jewish and Christian god (most of us do not know it, but his name is Yahweh) not Allah. And there definitely is not one single valid proof for the existence of Allah - in spite of what Islam tells us. Not one single. Only claims and statements - some of them very loose - and invalid “signs” and “proofs“ + invalid logic.
- There is not one single valid proof for Muhammad’s connection to a god – only logically invalid claims and statements.
- Muhammad was not really a prophet – he just “borrowed” that imposing and impressing title. A prophet is a person with the gift of: 1. Being able to make valid prophesies. 2. The prophesies he makes at least mostly are correct - if not he is a false prophet. 3. He makes so frequent and/or essential prophesies that to make prophesies clearly is part of his mission. Muhammad neither had this gift, nor pretended he had it, nor claimed he had it. (Details in the chapter about Muhammad.) He may have been a messenger for someone or something, but not a real prophet.
- Muslims and Islam tell that Allah and Yahweh is the same god. But only Muslims (and a few others who take after Muslims on that point) say so. And there are so fundamental differences at too many central points, especially compared to the Christian religion, that the statement simply is not true - not unless the god is schizophrenic.
- Islam tells that where the Quran differs from the Bible, the reason is that the Bible is falsified. Science tells that the reason is that Muhammad knew the Bible badly, and the easy way out when he said something colliding with the Bible, was to state that the Bible was falsified. Science actually long since has proved beyond any reasonable and most unreasonable doubts that Muhammad's not documented and never proved claim is wrong. An extra point here is that the stories in the Quran often are taken from apocryphal (made up) scriptures, and from Jewish and Christian and other legends and fairy tales, not from the Bible, and when then the story is different or does not exist in the Bible, Muhammad simply and boldly explains the “obvious”; that the reason why the Quran has a different story, is that the Bible is falsified - and Islam says the same today in spite of all proofs proving the opposite (they have to, because if not the religion is proved a falce one). Hardly one single real scientist today believes that the Quran is sent down by an omniscient god - and no professor of history outside believing Muslims ever uses it for a source of historical facts for history before 610 AD, no matter if Muslims insist that every word and every comma is true and identical to Muhammad's words - which is not true, as the comma did not exist in Arab when the Quran was collected.
- Besides: All the old manuscripts also show that the claim that the Bible is falsified is not true – and the best proof for this, is that Islam has never produced any exaple of such an old falsification. Even though there exist many thousands (13ooo?) relevant old manuscripts, and many more (32ooo?) with references to the Bible, they do not contain any of the falsifications Islam claims – not one of them. If one single proof for falsification had been found, Islam had SCREAMED about it.
- Muslims has a tendency to dismiss you as “Muslim hater” or “Israel lower” etc. in debates if they do not like what you say or if they need a way out from facts they cannot answer. BUT IF THE FACTS YOU PRESENTS ARE TRUE, THEY ARE TRUE NO MATTER WHETHER YOU ARE THIS OR THAT - YOUR PERSON IS IRRELEVANT FOR THE FACTS. Muslims often “forget” that.
- Another way out from a difficult question or argument is this: “You cannot make conclusions from only one or a few verses – you have to judge from the general picture from the Quran”. This they claim even though they themselves condemn each and every other religion from bits and pieces of facts (or fiction). But as few non-Muslims have ever read the Quran, it is difficult for them to meet the claim. But honestly speaking: If you are unable to extract the essence of one or som verses, anybody should stay out of debated - their intellectual capasity is only up to bying bread and chees in a shop.
- One straight answer to the point above is that anyone who is not able to extract the significant points from a text or part of a text, does not have the brain to take part in any debate and should stay out of it, instead of using diffuse claims - like you cannot judge from only parts of the Quran - to get out of difficulties.
- And then there are the allegories. The Quran plainly states that it mainly is to be understood literally, see chapter about this or f. ex 3/7. But anything that is difficult to explain becomes allegories and is explained away in that way – included scientific mistakes in the book. Scientific “facts” in the book are – and have been – told to be literal facts - - - until real science gets too strong proofs for that it is wrong. Then it becomes allegories, according to Islam and Muslims. Most of what is told in the book was scientific facts for all the old congregations and followers, and for their scholars in the old time. Then – instead of checking what was wrong – each and every wrong fact was successively explained away or renamed "allegory" some years after the proofs for it being wrong became too strong. Today very much in the Quran are “allegories” (also see separate chapter). It is better to explain things away, than to face the possibility that something may be wrong. This even in the face of the terrible result Muslims may meet in a possible next life, if Islam is a made up religion – and even more so if a real god exists somewhere, a god they have been denied the possibility to search for.
NB: If you find any mistakes anywhere, please inform us. If it is a real mistake, it will be corrected.
NB, NB, NB:
1. Read first the 2 small chapters "Some Essentials for how the Quran is to be read and understood" (VII-10-1) and "The Quran is to be understood literally if nothing else is indicated" (VII-10-2).
2. http://www.1000mistakes.com is blocked by many Muslim authorities. To debate with persons in such areas, cut and paste what you want from the pages and send it under titles different from http://www.1000mistakes.com.
3. http://www.1000mistakes.com is one of 9 pages which Muslim organisetions warned especially against in 2008 and 2009 - it could make especially procelytes lose their belief in Islam; correct and "down-to-the-earth" information works. In this connection it is worth noting that in the "warning" http://www.1000mistakes.com was one of 3 which neither was accused of bringing wrong facts, nor of being a hate page.
4. Comment 141 (to verse 6/149) in “The Message of the Quran” (see point 5) explains (translated from Swedish) about Allah's claimed omniscience vs. man's claimed free will:
“With other words: The real connection between Allah’s knowledge about the future (and consequently about the unavoidable in what is to happen in the future*) on one side and man’s relatively (!!*) free will on the other – two statements that seems to contradict each other – lies outside what is possible for humans to understand, but as both statement are made from Allah (in the Quran*) both must be true”. Unbelievable. Blind belief is the only correct and intelligent way of life, even in the face of the utterly impossible!!
5. And an afterthought: In the book “The Message of the Quran”, certified by Al-Azhar Al-Sharif Islamic Research Academy in Cairo (one of the 2-3 top universities in the Muslim world on such subjects) in a letter dated 27. Dec. 1998, it is admitted rather reluctantly that there are no proofs for Allah, and that it is not possible to prove him. An additonal point here is that if there is no proof for Allah and impossible to prove him, automatically there also is no proof for, and impossible to prove Muhammad's claimed connection to a god. And if there is no Allah and/or no connection between Muhammad and a god, what then is Islam?
6. Further: All the mistakes, contradictions, etc. in that book prove 100% that the Quran is not made by an omniscient god - no god makes such and so many mistakes, etc. If then Islam is a made up religion, what then about all the Muslims who have been prohibitted from looking for a real religion (if such one exists)? And where will they in case wake up after living and practising such an inhuman war religion like Islam is according to the Quran (and to Hadiths), if there is a second life somewhere? - Hell or Paradise?
7. NB and PS: No matter how sure you are about something, if it is not proved, it is not knowledge, only belief or strong belief, and can be wrong. Only what is proved or possible to prove is knowledge.
(As http://www.1000mistakes.com is blocked in many Muslim areas - which shows they are afraid of it and lack arguments (if they had real arguments for http://www.1000mistakes.com is wrong, blocking was unneccessary) - "cut and paste" whatever you want from it and send if you want to inform or to debate there. Remember to omit the name http://www.1000mistakes.com).
PS: If we are blocked centrally - f. ex. by spam (there is too much at times already from unfriendly sources) we will reopen with new address somewhere else, and announce the new address om f. ex. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam. Also if your comments to us do not reach us, any comments posted on the thread "What is it with http://www.1000mistakes.com ?" (or make a page containing "1000 mistakes" in the title yourself if you want) on that forum will be read by us - it is a big international debate page.