1000+ Claims in the Quran - Invalid Unless Proven, Surah 65

 

SURAH 65: AT-TALAQ (Divorce)

(Medina, 622-628 AD)

 

001  "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful". Please read the surahs from Medina, the immoral parts of the Muslim moral code, the unjust/immoral parts of sharia, and the Quran's rules for lying, thieving/looting, enslaving, raids and wars, plus the rules for treatment of girls and women - free and captives - and see if you agree. Always when there is a distance between words and corresponding demands and deeds, we personally believe in the demands and deeds. Glorious words are cheap, demands and deeds are reliable. Glorifying words and claims are too cheap for anyone to use and disuse - when you read, judge from realities, not from propaganda.

002 65/1e: "- - - Allah your (Muslims'/humans'*) Lord - - -". Contradicted by the Bible, which says Yahweh is the lord, not Allah. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just loose claims and as loose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.

003 65/1f: "- - - any who transgress the limits of Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul". As the Quran is not from a god, the relevant question is: Are the limits from Allah? - from dark forces pretending to be a god? - or from humans, f.x. Muhammad?

004 65/2c: "- - - justice - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code, partly unethical ethical code, partly unjust judicial cod, etc.

005 65/2d: "Such is the admonition given to him who believes in Allah and the Last Day - - -". As the Quran is not from a god: The admonition given by whom?

006 65/2h: "- - - (for Muslims*) He (Allah*) (ever) prepares a way out". If he exists and is something supernatural - - - and at all cares about lowly humans.

007 65/3b: "- - - sufficient is Allah for him (the Muslim*)". He may be right if Allah exists and is a god. He is wrong if Allah exists, but represents dark forces pretending to be a god - Muhammad would have no chance to see the difference (many harsh parts of the Quran may indicate this). He also is wrong if Allah does not exist.

008 65/3c: "For Allah will surely accomplish His purpose - - -". Only if he exists and is powerful, none of which was ever proved.

009 65/3f: " - - - verily - - -". It definitely is no proved verity/truth. See f.x. 2/2b and 61/4a+b above.

010 65/5a: "That is the Command of Allah - - -". But as the Quran is not from a god, the pertinent question is: Is the command really from Allah? - or from some dark forces pretending to be Allah? - or from one or more humans, f.x. Muhammad? - or simply from a sick brain like modern medical science suspects, like TLE (Temporal Lobe Epilepsy)? Rules similar to the ones in 65/1-4 which this refers to, you do not find in NT at all.

011 65/5b: "That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down - - -". No god ever sent down the texts of the Quran - too much is wrong in them.

012 65/5c: "That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down to you (Muhammad*) - - -". As no god sent down the Quran, also no god sent it down to Muhammad.

013 65/5d: "- - - if anyone fears Allah - - -". Little reason for that, unless he exists and is something supernatural - white or dark.

014 65/5e: "- - - if anyone fears Allah, He will remove his (not her - Islam is a man's religion*) ills from him, and will enlarge his reward". Only possible - possible - is Allah exists and is a god. (Allah may exist and even be a god and not do this all the same, if not the Quran has told the full truth and only the truth about him.)

015 65/7b: “Allah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him.” Well, there are people in Muslim countries, too, who cannot bear the burdens and flee – to other places or out of mind or even from this life.

016 65/8b: "- - - His (Allah's*) Messengers - - -". The Quran claims that all people to all times off and on have been sent prophets/messengers teaching Islam - Hadiths mentions the number 124ooo through the times. Neither science nor Islam has ever fond one single trace from them, so believe the claim if you are able to. It also is mathematical and psychological illogical that a relatively very few prophets (20 or so + some minor ones) should establish Jewish, one Christianity, and one self proclaimed one Islam - - - and all the others not leave a trace, even though they preached a similar religion according to Islam - explain it if you are able to.

017 65/8c: "And We (Allah*) imposed on them (some non-Muslims*) an exemplary Punishment". In and around Arabia there were ruins or deserted houses, villages, etc., and also in the local folklore there were tales about disappeared tribes, etc. Muhammad claimed they had all been killed by Allah because of sins against him. Modern science laugh from those claims - there are much more likely reasons in a harsh and warlike area.

018 65:10a: "Allah has prepared - - -". This only is possible if he exists and in addition is powerful.

019 65/10c: "- - - fear Allah - - -". There is no reason for that unless he exists and is something supernatural.

020 65/10g: "- - - Allah hath indeed sent down to you a Message (the Quran*) - - -". No omniscient god was ever involved in a book of a quality like the Quran.

021 65/11b: "A Messenger - - -". Muhammad. But see 63/5a above.

022 65/11d: "A Messenger - - - (who*) may lead forth those who believe - - - from the depths of Darkness into light." Wrong. No teaching as full of mistakes. etc, not from a god, and with a partly immoral moral code and a partly unjust law, etc. can lead anyone to religious light."

023 65/11e: "- - - the Signs of Allah - - -". There never was one single unmistakable sign for Allah. The best proof for this is how quiet the leading Muslim scholars are about proved claims.

##024 65/11f: “- - - the Signs of Allah (are*) containing clear explanations - - -”. Wrong. There is not one single of the “Signs” referred in the Quran, which has any value, neither as proof nor as explanation (with the possible explanation of some taken from the Bible, but they talk about another god, Yahweh). The reasons are that they without exception just are loose statements or are building on other invalid statements, “signs“ or “proofs” - totally invalid. To have any value, it first must be proved that it really is Allah who is behind them. If a person consciously uses such invalid arguments, they are the hallmarks of a cheat and a deceiver. No god would use them. Also see 2/39b, 2/299a, 2/299b, 30/9 and 30/30 above.

025 65/11h: "- - - righteous deeds - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code.

026 65/11i: "- - - the depths of Darkness - - -". Anything outside Islam. Believe it if you want. To be true, Islam has to be a real religion with an existing, benevolent god. If there are other existing gods - f.x. Yahweh - the claim suddenly becomes only partly correct. And if Allah does not exist or is from the dark forces, but pretending to be a god, it is totally wrong.

027 65/11k: "- - - work righteousness - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code.

028 65/11l: "- - - He (Allah*) will admit them (Muslims*) to Gardens beneath which rivers flow - - -". This Allah only can do if he exists and is a benevolent god. (If he in reality is something from dark forces, which parts of the Quran and parts of its moral code may indicate, it is likely he will invite them somewhere else).

029 65/11o: "- - - to dwell therein (Paradise*) for ever - - -". Verse 11/108c indicates that Paradise may be is not quite forever. Islam is a little at a loss how to explain that verse. The favorite explanation is that the good Muslims in Paradise then will be moved to an even better place, but this is not said in the Quran - it is based on wishful thinking.

030 65/11q: "Allah hath indeed granted for them (good Muslims*) a most excellent Provision". If he exists, if he is a benevolent god - and if the Quran tells the truth on this point.

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031 65/12b: “Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments (wrong*) ########and of the earth a similar number”. According to Hadith the last part means 7 separate Earths - one above the other. According to Muhammad Ibn ‘Abd Allah al-Kisa’I the last part means 7 layers down in the Earth according to one “explanation” (an "explanation which is impossible, as the claimed Earths are populated, and nobody can live and move around deep down in solid stone, enormous pressure, and hundreds or a few thousand centigrades - a typical Islamic "explanation: One "explains" one aspect of a problem, without remembering/seeing that other aspects make the "explanation" impossible.). But what the Quran really says, is 7 Earths – 7 flat Earths. No matter if you believe the Quran/Hadith or one of the “explanations” for this somewhat special geology/geography/astronomy, the "astronomy" of the Quran from top and down is:

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“Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments (wrong*) ########and of the earth a similar number”. According to Hadith the last part means 7 separate Earths - one above the other. According to Muhammad Ibn ‘Abd Allah al-Kisa’I the last part means 7 layers down in the Earth according to one “explanation” (an "explanation which is impossible, as the claimed Earths are populated, and nobody can live and move around deep down in solid stone, enormous pressure, and hundreds or a few thousand centigrade - a typical Islamic "explanation: One "explains" one aspect of a problem, without remembering/seeing that other aspects make the "explanation" impossible.). But what the Quran really says, is 7 Earths – 7 flat Earths. No matter if you believe the Quran/Hadith or one of the “explanations” for this somewhat special geology/geography/astronomy, the names of the 7 heavens and the 7 “Earths” from top and down are:  

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THE SKY ACCORDING TO GREEK ASTRONOMY

Earth - Tellus (or Terra) - was in the center. Over were 7 rotating spheres made of an aetherial, transparent fifth element (quintessence), in which the planets, the sun and the moon were embedded - like jewels in orbs. And outside - in a similar sphere - all the fixed stars were set in an outer such shell. They were placed like this:  

  • The fixed stars

  • Saturn

  • Jupiter 

  • Mars 

  • the Sun

  • Venus

  • Mercury

  • the Moon

  • EARTH

The calculated distance from Earth to the edge of the universe: 73 million miles/117 million km. This was the accepted distance until reasonably modern times. Something to remember when Muslims want Muhammad/the Quran to have talked about the universe in modern meaning (the Arab word for such a universe is at all not used in the Quran.

NB: Mercury some places has fallen out from our lists published before 2014.

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"ASTRONOMY" AND "GEOGRAPHY" IN THE QURAN

a. THE QURAN'S UNIVERSE. 7 HEAVENS, 7 EARTHS, AND HELL.

According to the Quran the “everything” is like this:

On top of all - above the 7. heaven - Allah has his residence.

Seven heavens above the Earth – one on top of the other. They have names, guardian angel, and gates.

The heavens are resting on the Earth by means of invisible pillars.

In between the heavens are the sun (?) and the moon.

The sun is a flat disk (if not it cannot be folded up like it does at the Day of Doom).

The 7 heavens contain Paradise - the higher heavens are for top Muslims.

The lower heaven is for "normal good" Muslims - split in at least 4 or 6 gardens = 4 or 6 qualities.

Under heavens, and fastened to the lowest (37/6-7, 41/12) one, are all the stars.

Allah often uses stars as shooting stars to chase away jinns and bad spirits spying on Heaven.

Under the heavens and stars are clouds – which Allah sometimes breaks to pieces (rain).

Under that the birds are kept up there by the will of Allah only.

On the Earth mountains are set down - or really dropped down.

The reason why Allah has set down mountains on Earth is to stabilize it - if not it can start wobbling and tip over (This is the Quran's real meaning).

(Modern Muslims claims the mountains are set down to reduce earthquakes - but mountains do not reduce earthquakes (on the contrary sometimes)).

According to Hadiths 2 of the rivers on Earth starts in Heaven - the Nile and Euphrates.

Earth was – according to the Quran - created together with the heavens from something like smoke which Allah ordered to come together to one mass and then he split asunder. One part became our flat Earth (or really "earths" as there are 7 (65/12) – one on top of the other according to Hadiths) and the other became heaven, or actually the 7 material heavens which lies above Earth. (For more about this, see the about the creation of heaven).

On the Earth also all kinds of beings live – created from clay or something or nothing.

Man - Adam - is created in 13 different ways if you count exactly and strictly (5 - 7 if you are kind-hearted towards Islam).

All this is existing or living on our flat Earth.

There are 7 earths - according to Hadiths the others are under "our" Earth.

According to Hadiths Islam knows the names of the 7 earths - and the name of their people.

Underneath everything is Hell 

(we have not found out for sure if it is situated in the world Ajiba).

The lower the earth the more Hell-like is the situation for its inhabitants, Hadiths tell.

And at the bottom Hell (?) 

All this (possibly with the exception of Paradise and Hell) was created in 6 - or 8 - days.

That it took 6 days, is mentioned at least in 10/3 – 11/7 – 25/59 – 32/4 – 50/38 - 57/4. But science tells a very different story.

Just like your teacher of geography told you? And who created this nonsense?

##(YA5570):"He (Allah*) Who creates must necessarily know His own handiwork". This is very correct, so when the Quran shows that the maker of that book clearly do not know the reality, it is a strong proof for that something is very wrong somewhere.

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THE 7 HEAVENS, THE GUARDIAN ANGEL OF EACH, AND IT'S GATE, ACCORDING TO ISLAM

7.Gharibya, angel Razquel, gate made from shining light.

6.Rafqa, angel Shamkhael, gate made from white pearl.

5.Ratqa, angel Kalkael, gate made from gold.

4.Arqlun, angel Salsael, gate made from silver.

3.Aun, angel Saadiel, gate made from topaz.

2.Faydum, angel Michael, gate made from ruby.

1.Birqi, angel Ismael, gate made from emerald.

There are different lists - names and details seems to be not very clear. This list is from A. Bishkow (the floor material listed in () are from another list:

Name: Floor from: Characteristics:

7.Hariba Shining light Paradise and Hell both are placed here (NB!).

6.Giyas Shining ruby Here the original of the Kabah mosque is situated. Some angel’s baby (or white pearls) face, others with horse heads, with sword and spear, riding horses.

5.Dalva Red gold Angels beautiful like permanent virgin angels.

4.Maus Pearl (or silver) Horses, and angels with 70ooo wings (= hopeless turbulence when trying to fly). 

3.Gudum Ruby (or topaz) Some angels have eagle faces, others cow head, bright and shiny eyes.

2.Afnus Silver (or ruby) Angels like griffins (= eagle head, lion body, dragon wings).

1.Barakiyya Green emerald Angels like persons with body like cows and eagle wings. They have 70ooo heads and horns. (Must be very big for place for that many heads + do the heads cooperate? - if they think in unison; why so many? 

The 7 heavens were Greek and Persian astronomy. One observed 7 movements on the firmament - the sun and the moon, plus Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn (the other planets were not visible to the naked eye) - and thus needed 7 invisible heavens to fasten them to, to explain why they did not fall down on Earth. And outside were the so-called "fixed" stars fixed a separate shell). Any - any - god had known better. Then who made the Quran?

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c. THE QURAN'S PARADISE

We have chosen to give a detailed description of the Muslim Paradise, partly because eternity is a long time for staying in one place, and partly to give a full picture. It mainly is like Earth at the time and area of Muhammad in and around Arabia, but with more water and willing and obedient beautiful women, and a life like the high nobility as seen through the eyes and dreams of young and not so young, but virile, primitive, uneducated and naïve warriors – male warriors of course.

Is this really the best paradise an omniscient, omnipotent god can make? Or is it someone playing on primitive, uneducated and naïve virile men’s secret dreams about riches and women? “Tell a lie often enough, and people start believing” – Joseph Goebbels.

To make a summary:

1. Allah lives above the topmost heaven.

2. There are 7 heavens - one on top of the other.

3. The heavens are material ones (if not it was not possible to fix the stars to the lowermost of them, or for resurrected Muslims to live and walk on them).

4. There may be light enough and heath enough also in heaven, as the moon and the sun are between the heavens according to Hadiths (the moon also according to the Quran - it is not clearly said for the sun).

5. Paradise is in these heavens above us on our flat Earth, and the one for normal good Muslims seems to be situated in the first heaven, as the higher heavens are for more deserving persons than normal Muslims.

6. The higher heavens as mentioned are for the special Muslims - prophets and other extra people (what about their families who do not personally deserve a higher heaven?). The better quality Muslim you are, the higher heaven you end in. Jesus f.x. is in 2. heaven – he in reality is the main competitor to Muhammad, and had to be reduced by giving him place in a low heaven to reduce him as a prophet. On the other end of the scale is the veneered Abraham in 7. heaven – a heaven he will have to share with Muhammad after the Day of Doom. It is said nothing about how the heavens were populated at the time of Muhammad's trip to the heavens - the Quran teaches that the dead has to wait till the Day of Doom for resurrection, but all the same both Hell and the heavens were populated when Muhammad visited the heavens and when he was shown the Hell. A clear contradiction (though this is not all mentioned in the Quran, only in Hadiths).The higher up the better as that meant closer to Allah - there are classes also in Paradise in Islam.

7. Normal good Muslims end in the lower heaven.

8. This in case seems to be the same heaven as all the stars are fastened to, and from where some of the stars are used for shooting stars to chase away Jinns/bad spirits wanting to spy on heaven. Though how to spy on Allah and his angels above 7. heaven, when jinn and other spies were below even the 1. heaven?

9. These parts of the Paradise are subdivided with standards according to how good and eager a Muslim you have been - 4 or 6 or more different gardens. (This is not much mentioned in the Quran, but is clear from the Hadiths – f.x. Al-Bukhari).

10. There are possibilities for communication between humans in Paradise and in Hell – perhaps along the rim of the hemispheres making the heavens? – as Hell seems to be lying under the flat 7 Earths, that is a possibility.

11. At the Day of Doom the humans are split in 3 groups (some Hadiths only mention 2), and the deserving 2 best groups ends one in an excellent part Paradise - and the best in extra excellent parts.

12. Mainly Muslims end in Paradise, but a few Jews and Christians with strong belief and an excellent moral life, have a chance, according to at least some verses in the Quran. There also may be an opening for others who never had heard about Allah. Because Allah is reluctant to punish people who did not know they did wrong.

13. In Paradise you live in huge mansions.

14. And you preside on imposing thrones – endless rows of them – or relax on pillows lying on carpets.

15. Paradise seems to be constructed for people from a hot, dry country, with much emphasize on shade and water. According to Hadith 2 rivers on Earth – the Nile and the Euphrates – starts in Paradise, believe it or not.

18. There are plenty of trees – hence some of the shade – included rich fruit trees.

19. People are resurrected for Paradise (and for Hell) in body, not only in soul (necessary as most of the pleasures in the Quran's and Islam's Paradise are bodily ones).

20. It is likely, but not absolutely sure, that all are resurrected like young adults.

21. Clothes are very rich in Paradise – the same are personal ornaments. Something like a king’s regal outfit on Earth.

22. Also the food is excellent. Especially plenty of fruits are often mentioned, but also plenty of meat. It is made clear that the food is more or less the same as on Earth, but in plenty and in high quality. Also in this way life is like on Earth – but like a king on Earth.

23. Also what you drink is the same – only better – like on Earth. This includes wine (but a not intoxicating variety – or in the early surahs perhaps only not giving you a bad “day after”).

24. One convenience is that according to Hadiths you never need a toilet, even after all that good food and drink.

25. Everybody is served and served on by an army of young attractive boys or men. The Quran gives no name and also no information on where they come from or how they like their position in Paradise.

26. Everybody – at least the men - have their parents, wives and children around them if these qualified for Paradise – which makes it clear that the Paradise must be inhabited by enormous clans, as the sons of the sons of the sons in hundreds of generations slowly adds up, and all are promised to have their parents and wives and children around them (as for children, it mainly must go for sons, as the daughters mostly end up as the wife of someone in another clan, or another part of the same clan.

27. Then there are the famous houris – in reality sex slaves for virile men. Hadiths tells that a really good (warrior) Muslim can have up to 72 of them. Nothing is said about how the men’s wives find this competition. But then Islam is a religion for the adult man, and women and what they like counts little. Nothing is said about what the houris are, where they come from or how they like this Paradise – not to mention how they like to serve and be playthings of rough, uneducated and sometimes worse warriors. Is it really a Paradise for them? The question seems to be of no interest neither to the Quran, nor to Islam, nor to Muslim men or scholars.

28. There is said very little about women in Paradise, except it is clear they belong to the men's family and harem (together with the houris - but it is the houris who are the main attraction in the Quran). Also Paradise is a man's world in the Quran. 

29. A big and not answered question is how Abraham and the others already could have got their place in Paradise when Muhammad visited it, as the Day of Doom has not yet appeared.

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THE SUN AND THE MOON

The sun is created by Allah. It is not clearly said, but from the contexts it is clear it moves between the (7) heavens. It orbits over the flat Earth once a day, and arrives at a not further described resting-place in the night. It is a flat disk (if not it could not be folded up at the Day of Doom, like the Quran tells).

The moon also is created by Allah, naturally. The Quran states that it orbits among the heavens. this means that at least one heaven is below the moon (if not the moon could not be "among" them). As the Quran also tells that the stars are fixed to the lowest heaven, this means that according to the Quran, the stars are below the moon. If this had been true, for one thing this part of space had been very crowded, and for another that Earth had been very hot.

You will meet Muslims claiming that the fact that the sun and the moon are differently described in the Quran, proves that Muhammad knew one was a star and the other just a chunk of stone shining with borrowed light - some even try to claim he knew it was light reflected from the sun (this even though no word meaning "reflecting" or similar is used in the entire Arab Quran).

This is nonsense. The normal person not seeing and feeling that the sun and the moon are very different, is not born yet. Muhammad described them differently for the very simple reason that he easily both saw and felt that they were very different. But Muslim "miracle hunters" - also called "miracle scholars" is unbelievable in their disuse of facts, of texts, and of logic. But as unbelievable: Many Muslims believe in some or all their claimed "miracles" - in spite of that Muhammad himself in the Quran tells he just was an ordinary man without any supernatural powers, and thus able to make neither foretelling nor miracles.

The ironic fact is that each time a "miracle scholar" - or a normal Muslim or a mullah or whatever - tells that Muhammad made foretelling/prophesies or miracles, he/she at the same time indirectly but clearly tells that Muhammad and the Quran lies when telling that Muhammad was unable to make supernatural things.

Well, it is nice of them to confirm there are lies in the Quran.

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THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE HEAVENS.

73/20k: "- - - ye (Muslims*) shall find it in Allah's Presence (= in Paradise) - - -". But what is really "Allah's presence"? There are 7 heavens and Allah lives above number seven - both claims according to the Quran. It is not specified in the Quran, but it seems normally good Muslims end in gardens in the first heaven. Which means there are 6 heavens between them and Allah. The Quran also does not specify the distance between the heavens, but relevant Islamic literature mention 100 years (of travel).

A normal speed for a walker is some 3.5 - 4 miles/6 km an hour. Say you walked together with a caravan, which walked for 12 hours a day (the main thing for a caravan is to reach its goal and make money, so they often walked from dawn till dusk, and even ate when walking).

That would mean 45 miles (some 72 km) a day.

There are 365 days a year = some 16.400 miles (some 26.300 km) a year.

As there are said to be 100 years between the heavens, this means some 1.64 million miles (2.63 million km) between the heavens.

And the distance between the 1. and the 7. heaven consequently a little less than 10 million miles (a bit less than 16 million km).

Better than 40 times the distance to the moon.

And remember that Allah lives above the 7. heaven = even further off further off.

(And the distance from Earth to Allah is the same plus the distance from Earth to the lowest heaven. If the first and the last distance is similar to the ones between the heavens, we end up with something like 13 million miles/21 million km between Earth and Allah, and Allah sitting somewhere well on his way to Venus or Mars.)

Not just "in Allah's Presence" neither for the normal good Muslims in the first Paradise, nor for the Muslims on Earth.

Better than 40 times the distance to the moon. And this is the distance between the heavens. The distance between Earth/humans and Allah is more.

############## If the Islamic books have given reasonably correct information about the distances, this is a rough picture of what the Quran means with "Allah's Presence" for normal Muslims in Paradise.

We remind you that the old astronomers had calculated the distance to the end of the universe, represented by the fixed stars, to some 73 million mile/117 million km. Plenty of space for Allah.

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f. THE STARS FASTENED TO THE LOWEST HEAVEN

37/7, 41/12, and 67/5 all tells that the stars are fastened to the lowest heaven.

(A67/5 – omitted in 2008 edition): “We (Allah*) have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven (out of the 7 the Quran frequently tells about, and which Muhammad even visited*) with lamps (stars*), and We have made such (lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones - - -.” But the disagreement concerns: Is it the stones in the shooting stars that chase jinns, etc. away? – the Arab word “rudjum” – plural of “radjm” means “throwing of stones” or “stoning” (one name for the Devil f.x. is “ar-radjim” = “the stoned one”). Or is it the fire? – the Quran really mention the fire. Once more: Start guessing. (The 2008 edition of “The Message of the Quran” even has got a new one – at least new to us: The Quran is not talking about stars used like shooting stars, but used as objects for divination by the bad astrologers. They need a lot of easy words to reach that conclusion, but so what? – as we have indicated before: Sometimes the religion is more essential than honesty and intellectual integrity. Though we have touched this theme before, we ask again: What does it indicate that a religion has to resort to cheating and dishonesty? Normally such methods mean that one does not have real arguments. In religion there also is the serious fact: If there is a next life, and if a religion needs to base its life on lies – even only partly – that is a strong indication for that that religion is not based on the truth. And in that case its believers will not wake up in any Paradise.)

What is for sure is that according to the Quran the stars are fastened to the lowest of the claimed 7 heavens. And as the moon is between the heavens according to the book, this means that at least the lowest heaven and all the stars are below the moon. Not exactly modern astronomy.

Any god had known better than this. Who made the Quran?

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g. EARTH IS FLAT

It is such a matter of course in the Quran that the Earth is flat, that the shape of it never is mentioned. But each time it is compared to something, it is to something flat - a carpet, a bed, etc. See f.x. 15/19 or 20/53. There is no doubt that the Quran's Earth is flat. You will meet Muslims claiming that the Quran says the Earth is spherical or egg shaped. But this is from an al-Taqiyya (lawful lie) translation. Of the several places where the Earth is compared to something, in the Arab text (often not in the translations) one place it is compared to an ostrich's nest, which simply is a flattened piece of earth. Of the 60+ translations to English, on single translator has translated this not to something flat, but to "like an ostrich's egg". This one out of 60+ translations and this one out of many places in the Quran where Earth is compared to something flat also in that translation is it Muslims cherry-pick and claim this proves that Muhammad knew Earth was spherical or at least egg shaped. Lay Muslims may even believe this, but it is not possible for scholars of Islam not to know that it is wrong - - - but they do not correct their fellow Muslims, and some even uses the wrong translation themselves. As mentioned before: Honesty is not always the main thing for Muslims trying to prove that the Quran is right.

NB: There also is one place in the Quran where the texts says something like "Allah blends the day into the night and the night into the day" - something like that. Muslims claim this proves the Quran knew the Earth is a globe, because this blending would be impossible if the Earth had other shapes. This is wrong. Muhammad believed the sun was moving across the flat Earth, and then the blending is absolutely possible also if the Earth were flat

Worse: The claim is dishonesty, as the Muslim scholar - who are behind "explanations" like this - know as well as anybody else, that Muhammad just was describing what he saw - that one was blending into the other morning and evening. He did not have to know anything about the shape of the Earth to see this.

This flat Earth is unstable and may start wobbling. To hinder that Allah has dropped down (the same Arab verb is used as the one used by a sailor when he drops an anchor) to stabilize it. (No comments should be necessary).

Modern Muslims claim the Mountains are placed there to hinder earthquakes - but mountains do not hinder earthquakes (they even are connected to earthquakes sometimes). But what the original Arab texts really say, is that the Earth might start wobbling and even tip over, and the mountains prevents this. (Also here comments should not be necessary.)

Already at the time of Muhammad there existed "highways" - or rather main tracks/paths. These were made by Allah.

And 2 of the big rivers on Earth - the Euphrates and the Nile - starts in the gardens of Paradise. Is the word nonsense strong enough?

Who made the Quran?

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h. THE 7 EARTHS - AND HELL

According to 65/12, Allah created "seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number" = Allah created 7 Earths.

According to f.x. Al-Bukhari the Earths are placed one above the other – easy as the Quran tells the Earth(s) is/are flat. The lower down, the more devilish life on the respective layer – and if you are a big enough sinner, you can fall down through them all at the Day of Doom. It is not necessary to say it is all rubbish.

p> Also see 1/2 - 2/131 – 6/45 - 7/64 - 7/61 - 7/67 – 7/104 – 7/121 – 10/37 – 26/16 – 26/23 – 26/47 – 26/77 – 26/98 – 26/109 – 26/127 – 26/145 - 26/180 - 26/192 – 27/8 – 27/44 - 28/30 – 32/2 – 37/87 - 37/182 – 38/87 – 39/75 - 40/64 - 40/66 – 41/9 – 43/46 – 45/36 - 56/80 – 59/16 – 65/12 (this one) - 68/52 – 69/43 – 81/27 – 81/29 – 83/6 and more. All these places mention “the worlds” in plural – f.x. “Lord of the Worlds (Allah*)” – and reference to the 7 worlds. But beware of a stumbling stone here: The Quran also in 1 – 2 cases uses the expression “the Worlds” in another connection – Muslim scholars believe it in that or those couple of cases refers to “man and Jinn” or “man and woman”. In western languages it is not possible to see the difference, because our nouns only have singular and plural. But in Arab (and some other languages) it is different: They have singular, dual (= 2), and plural. We are informed that in all such cases where the original Arab text has plural, it refers to the 7 non-existing Earths (well, one exists, even though it is not flat). But if the Arab text any place has the noun "Worlds" in dual, it just that place may be referring to something else - like "man and jinn". 

Also see 65/12b.

In one theory, both Paradise and Hell is placed in the 7. heaven. But it is normal to hear that Hell is place under the lowest Earth. The Quran does not clearly tell neither where Paradise, nor where Hell are situated.

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i. THE 7 EARTHS - AND THEIR PEOPLE

As for 7 Earths: 65/12: “Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments (wrong*) and of the earth a similar number”. Hadiths says "one above the other". According to Muhammad ibn ‘Abd Allah al-Kisa’i the last part means 7 layers down in the Earth according to one “explanation”- - - without explaining how the "people" living there can move around or not be fried by the heat or compressed by the pressure (it is normal for Muslims and Islam to "explain" things without taking all elements into consideration - and then you are imbecile who see that some aspects kill their "explanation", instead of seeing that they are right). But what the Quran really says is that there are 7 Earths – 7 flat Earths. Also see 67/5a for some more details. No matter if you believe the Quran/Hadith or one of the “explanations” for this somewhat special geology/astronomy, the names of the “Earths” from top and down are - according to Hadiths:

(As you see included "our" Earth - scientific name Tellus - Islam lists 8 Earths, but if you recon Ramaka to be our Earth (this is not clearly said anywhere in the Quran), there are 7 + Hell. The description of Ramaka does not quite fit our planet, but it seems that this must be the case: We are living on Ramaka and we are Muwasshim.)

The scientific name of the people on our Earth is Homo Sapiens. That means "the thinking human" or "knowing human". There are times when there are reasons for believing that name is an ironical joke - f.x. when leaders demand blindness, blind belief, and acceptance/belief in obviously wrong facts and/or obviously invalid logic.

If there somewhere is a god who is behind the creation or development of man, his second most valuable gift - after life itself - is our brain. If it is a gift from a god, it is an insult to this god to use blind belief instead of the brain.

1.Ramaka. People: Muwasshim, in everlasting torment and divine retribution.(Earth?)

2.Khalada. People: Tamis, eating their own flesh, drinking their own blood.

3.Arqa. People: Qays, eating dirt, drinking mother's milk. Pest: Mulelike eagles with spear like tails and poisonous quills.

4.Haraba. People: Jilla, have no eyes, hands, or feet, but bat like wings. Pest: the snakes of Hell, large as mountains.

5.Maltham. People: Hajla, eat each other. Pest: carry stones of sulfur around their neck - may burn.

6.Sijjin. People: Qatat, look like birds, worship Allah. Pest(?): contains the register of Hell.

7.Ajiba. People: Khasum, black and short, with claws like lions. Pest: Iblis/the Devil lives here (Hell?). Gog and Magog will end here.

Similar list from A. Birckov:

1.Ramaka Humans Under it: Strong wind protected by 70ooo angels. (There nowhere under us is wind - only over us (in the stratosphere).

2.Halda Amis Eating own bodies and blood. + all kinds of horrors for the condemned.

3.Arkadir (Qays?) Scorpion big as mules, snakes like dogs, Other strange and terrifying creature + fire/water ogres, and fish ogres.

4.Ruin Jilla A mountain like great snakes to frighten sentenced people. The Jillas have wings like birds, but no eyes, hands, or feet.

5.Malsam Hajla Cannibals.

6.Sijin Al-Qutat Birdlike. Also the settlement of souls of residence in Hell, to be punished by angels. Fire sea + terrible tragedies. Also "the book of debauchees" is here.

7.Ajiba Khutuk (terrible ogres) Will destroy Gog and Magog. Stronghold of Satan in the middle part.

This list at least makes it clear that Ramaka = our Earth.

That the creation took 6 days, is mentioned at least in 10/3 – 11/7 – 25/59 – 32/4 – 50/38 - 57/4. But on another place says 2 + 4 + 2 = 8 days. Muslims claim the first 2 are included in the 4, but that is not what the Quran says.

Just like your teacher of geography told you? And who created this nonsense? - an omniscient god?

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j. THE 7 GATES OF HELL

Like the heavens also Hell has 7 gates. They open to 7 parts of Hell, one worse than the next. There are different lists. The names of the gates mostly are similar, but the purpose of the different gates may vary not a little. This list is from al-Baghawi and al-Baizawi:

Juhannam/Gehenna Purgatory hell for all Muslims.

Laza (Raging flame) For Christians.

Hutama (Crushing torment) For Jews.

Sair (Blazing flame) For Sabians.

Saquar (Hell-fire) For wise men (of non-Islamic wisdom).

Jahim (Blazing fire) For pagans.

Hawiya/Nar (Fire) For hypocrites.

Once more: Just like your teacher of geography told you? And who created this nonsense?

Once more: ##(YA5570):"He (Allah*) Who creates must necessarily know His own handiwork". This is very correct, so when the Quran shows that the maker of that book clearly do not know the reality, it is a strong proof for that something is very wrong somewhere.

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According to f.x. Hadith, Al-Bukhari, the earths are placed one above the other – easy as the Quran tells Earth is/are flat. The lower down, the more devilish life on the respective "Earth" – and if you are a big enough sinner, you can fall down through them to Hell at the Day of Doom according to Hadiths. It is not necessary to say it is all rubbish. No comments. But also see 65/12c just below.

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According to f.x. Hadith, Al-Bukhari, the earths are placed one above the other – easy as the Quran tells Earth is/are flat. The lower down, the more devilish life on the respective "Earth" – and if you are a big enough sinner, you can fall down through them to Hell at the Day of Doom according to Hadiths. It is not necessary to say it is all rubbish. No comments. But also see 65/12c just below.

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032 65/12c: “Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments (wrong*) and of the earth a similar number”. As for the 7 firmaments/heavens see 65/12b just above. Modern Islam has problems with this one, as it is so obviously wrong, and so difficult to explain away. As mentioned one way to try to explain it away, is to claim the Quran here speaks about different layers in the Earth - which it most obviously do not do, and a way of understanding it none of Muhammad's listeners and none of the Muslim scholars of the old even thought about. And also an "explanation" which "forgets" that Islam claims (well, they speak with very small letters about it nowadays) that on each of the 7 earths there lived sentient beings - impossible in the stone and iron and pressure and temperature inside Earth - but then it is typical for Muslims to produce "explanations" for difficult problems, mistakes, etc., which seemingly may explain one or a few aspects of a case, and "forget" about other aspects of the same or other cases which kills the made up or trumped up "explanation".

Yusuf Ali (YA5527) has this claim for an "explanation" - and like all other Muslims trying this explanation, he "forget" that Islam (Hadiths) claims there live "humans" on each of the claimed Earths: "If we take the literal meaning (= what the Quran really says - and this is how the Quran is to be understood if nothing else is said or clearly indicated according to the Quran*) - just as we see the heavenly spheres one above another (they do not exist!!), over our heads, so we can see that the crust of the earth is built up of geological strata one above another". But you will never find a Muslim trying to explain this in more details if he can in any way avoid it. The reason is that in addition to the "humans" Islam claims live on the different Earths, and which are "forgotten" here, this "explanation" is scientific gobbledygook:

li>If you only take the crust, it is normal to reckon 2 (not 7) strata - upper and lower crust: Heavy stone like basalt at the bottom and lighter like granite at the top. 2 layers is very different from 7.

Some Muslims use the whole Earth. Then science normally reckons 3 layers: The core, the mantel, and the crust - still a long way to go to find 7.

The Muslim fares somewhat better if the scientist splits up these layers somewhat - like they often do. Then you get the lower and upper core, the lower and upper mantle, and the crust = 5 layers - or 6 if you also split the crust in a lower and upper one - but still not 7.

The scientific stratifying of the Earth - splitting it in layers - is a rather arbitrary affair, except where it is split in core, mantle and crust. Such arbitrary splitting can be done in many ways, and if you look long enough and split in the correct way, it is very likely you will find a way to split it in 7 theoretical ways - - - and then you have your and the Quran's 7 Earths!!! - admittedly very different from what is told in the Quran, and Hades take the "forgotten" inhabitants Islam tells about on the claimed Earths. The magic number - not to say the number magic - is found and as the number fits, the "explanation" is proved!! You will find that some mistakes in the Quran are tried explained away in this way - find some facts, real or claimed, which looks like they fit one or some aspects of the problem, forget the other aspects, especially if they prove your "explanation" wrong, and then you have your "solution" or sometimes even "proof". That both science and normal brain power tell that an explanation is invalid if it does not explain all aspects of a problem, is totally overlooked and of no interest to those Muslims.

As for using layers - strata - in the crust for an explanation like Abdullah Yusuf Ali indicates, you run into one more problem: Because of the tectonic activity (movement - also up and down) in the crust, it will be impossible to find 7 continuous layers in the Crust. May be this is why he did not say more about how layers in the crust can explain the Quran's 7 "Earths".

033 65/12e: "- - - Allah has power over all things - - ". He in case never has proved this power.

034 65/12f: “- - - Allah comprehends all things in (His) Knowledge.” Not if he made the Quran. Also see f.x. 13/1g and 40/75 above.

8369 + 34 = 8403 remarks.

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Not formed like questions for proofs, but what needs to be proved normally easy to see all the same. And: References you do not find here, go to "1000+ Comments on the Quran".


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This work was upload with assistance of M. A. Khan, editor of islam-watch.org and the author of "Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism, and Slavery".