1000+ Claims in the Quran - Invalid Unless Proven, Surah 8


Surah 8 : Al-Anfal (The Spoils of War)

(Medina 624 AD. Some later verses)


001 "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful". Please read the surahs from Medina, the immoral parts of the Muslim moral code, the unjust/immoral parts of sharia, and the Quran's rules for lying, thieving/looting, enslaving, raids and wars, plus the rules for treatment of girls and women - free and captives - and see if you agree. Always when there is a distance between words and corresponding demands and deeds, we personally believe in the demands and deeds. Glorious words are cheap, demands and deeds are reliable. Glorifying words and claims are too cheap for anyone to use and disuse - when you read, judge from realities, not from propaganda.

####002 8/1c: “They (the warriors*) ask thee (Muhammad*) concerning (things taken as) spoils of war (riches and slaves and sometimes land*). Say: (Such) spoils are at the disposal of Allah and the Prophet (Muhammad*)”. This is one of the rules Muhammad or the omniscient Allah had to change later (and not much later) - in the end Muhammad only got 20%, except if the victims gave in without a fight (then Muhammad still got 100%). (Islam has another explanation - all belongs to Allah, but 80% may be given to the warriors and to their leaders. But when a "may be" becomes a rule, it is not a "may be" any more). You meet Muslims saying Allah/the Quran never changed anything, but here is one point which was changed shortly afterward. Often Muslims explains changes with that the rules really were not changed, only made stricter or clarified (why should that be necessary for an omniscient god?) Here is an absolute rule which later had to be changed - the warriors demanded their share of the spoils. Besides: How primitive or greedy has a person to be in order to see a good and benevolent god in a god who permits stealing/robbing, rape, enslaving, suppression, murder, etc. in his name?Incompatible with NT.

####But there is another and very - extremely - serious point here: When raids and wars and slave-taking expeditions and whatever are planned and executed just for that purpose: To be able to see this as anything but plain and dishonest thievery or robbing or destroying of fellow humans' life to line your own pocket, you have be a very special person or belong to a very special culture.

####It happens that Muslims ask about why on Earth they are disliked just because they are Muslims? #####Parts of the Quran's moral code explain a large percent of that question - it is too far from normal moral codes on some points. (But Muslims are so used to it, that they are unable to see its excesses, dishonesty and inhumanity, and honestly believe it is a perfect and most honorable code.)

One may also run across the question why Hindus hate Muslims. Take a look at the history and see how Muslims treated the Hindus (and the Buddhists), and you get at least part of the answer. Muslims behaved even worse in parts of Africa - f.x. large scale slave hunting and trading, often in brutal ways. But it may seem like the black Africans have a greater capacity for forgiving and then forgetting than some others, plus many became Muslims, and then they could not and cannot talk too strongly about fellow Muslims. At least this may be an explanation.

####003 8/1d: “(The spoils of war*) “are at the disposal of Allah and the Prophet (Muhammad*) - - -.” All that was stolen and looted and robbed in raids and war, included slaves and prisoners for extorting money (this early – 624 AD – it mainly was raids to steal/rob/extort) belonged to Allah – represented by his envoy on earth: Muhammad. But his officers and warriors were too greedy to accept this – they wanted a share of the riches, too. So a bit later in the surah – a few “revelations” later (?) there came a contra order – and abrogation:

###8/41: “And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah - - -.” Muhammad had to give the warriors their share – except that he saved everything for himself in the cases where the victims gave in without fighting – then the warriors had done nothing and could not demand a share. Muhammad needed riches. Though it is likely it is true he was not overly interested in much luxury, he needed riches for bribes/"gifts" and for waging war to get more power and more riches, included slaves – war cost money even if he paid his warriors with religion and religious promises, then all the same food and equipment cost money – and he as said needed riches for “gift” to attract more warriors/followers/believers and to keep some of the lukewarm-warm ones - - - and some for social use (help to the poor and the wounded). Muslims try to explain away this contradiction and abrogation by saying that it all belongs to Allah/the leader, but 80% is given to the warriors/robbers. But the moment it becomes a right for the robbers in raids and warriors in war, the rank and file’s share no longer belongs to the leader.

004 8/1f: "- - - Allah and the Prophet (Muhammad*) - - -." A variation of Muhammad's main mantra to glue himself to the god and to his platform of power; Self-centered. Selfish?

005 8/1h: "- - - obey Allah and His Prophet (Muhammad*) - - -". A nice order for Muhammad, because here on Earth that in reality meant "obey Muhammad - completely (as he represent the god)".

For comparison: Jesus said "Follow me". There is an ocean between "Follow me" and "Obey me".

006 8/1k: "- - - His (Allah's*) Prophet (Muhammad*) - - -". No omniscient god has a prophet who tells lots of things which are wrong, in his name.

007 8/2c: "- - - put (all) their trust in their Lord (Allah*) - - -". A bit risky, as the Quran with all its errors, contradictions, etc. is not from a god, and thus Allah most likely do not exist - or he may be the pagan al-Lah/Allah Muhammad dressed up and used only the name Allah. Well, there even is a theory saying that he just is a dressed up something from the dark forces.

008 8/3a: "- - - establish regular prayers - - -". But what is the idea with prayers in Islam if Allah predestines everything long before and according to his unchangeable Plan? - a plan "nobody and nothing can change". If nothing can change the predestination, prayers have no effect in Islam and are just a waste of time and effort.

009 8/4aa: "- - - (Muslims have*) grades of dignity (in Paradise?*) - - -".

1. This meant that Muhammad always could tell his warriors: "Go on and end in an even better part of Paradise".

2. It also meant and means another proof for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god - also their Paradises (and Hells) are too different, not only f.x. their religions, moral codes, etc.

010 8/4c: "- - - forgiveness - - -". But Allah can forgive nobody unless he exists and is a god (his moral code and laws may f.x. indicate that he may be something dressed up from the dark side).

Another point is that to forgive - or for that case to punish or reward good deeds or a pilgrimage or fulfill prayers - means for Allah to change his predestined Plan considering the sinner/person, something which according to the Quran nobody and nothing can make him do. See 2/187d above.

011 8/5a: “Just as thy Lord (Allah*) ordered thee (Muhammad*) out of your house in truth - - -“. That is one of the main questions – was Muhammad ordered? – and in case by whom? (The surahs from Medina makes one think more about the Devil than about a good god.)

012 8/5b: “Just as thy Lord (Allah*) ordered thee out of your house in truth (to make war against the Quraysh – battle of Badr 624 AD*) - - -.” The Muslims went out to raid a military weak caravan - - - and met a small army instead, “according to Allah’s will”. Allah likes warriors – and he needs war to promote his power and religion, even if he is omnipotent. Well, remembering his claimed omnipotence, this is a strange "fact". No really omnipotent god needs raids or wars - he just needs to say "Be" and it is like he wants, also according to the Quran.

013 8/5f: "- - - even though a party among the Believers disliked it (to go to war*)". Not all Muslims liked - or like - to wage war. A fact that should be remembered - most Muslims (at least 70% as an average for the entire world according to science) are just like any other human being. The rest is everything from slightly understanding and sympathetic to fighting "the others", to terrorists and every stage in between, and perhaps only 0.5% (this number is from a Muslim source on Internet, but sounds reasonable) are fanatics. But 0.5% of 1.2 billion make 6 million - or say 4 million if you subtract the children - and the real problem is that it is difficult to impossible to know who is who. All the same: Given the situation there may be a little reason for being somewhat careful and to use your brain in contact especially with unknown Muslims. But there is no reason to judge each and every one you meet as bad or dangerous - mostly they are not.

(We may add that Muslims on the net often say that 1% of Muslims are "activists" or potentially such ones.)

014 8/6a: “Disputing - - - the truth after it was made manifest (had appeared in a verse or surah *)”. That something appears in a verse does not prove that it is true – far from it, as there are too many mistakes about a lot of things. Islam will have to produce proofs, not only claims about what is true and what not. Also see 8/5f above.

015 8/7b: “Allah promised you one of the two (enemy) parties (either the caravan or the small army at Badr) - - -“. Allah promised the Muslims a nice little fight? – very nice of him. “The Religion of Peace”???

016 8/7d: “- - - the Truth according to His (Allah’s) words (the Quran*) - - -“. That the Quran is the truth, is just a claim, not a proved fact. With that many mistakes, etc. in the Quran, it at best is partly true. Well, they in this case they won the battle - with some losses. But the caravan got away.

017 8/9ba: "I (Allah*) will assist you (Muslims*) with a thousand angels (doing battle*), ranks on ranks". But why do angels have to take part in battles if Allah is omnipotent? Yes, why do Muslims have to fight battles for him and die or become invalids? He just can say "Be, and it is", according to the Quran. Something is seriously wrong.

018 8/10a: "Allah made it but a message of hope - - -". The only claimed messages from Allah, are what one finds in the Quran. And as the Quran is not from any god with all those mistakes, also the messages are not from Allah - even if he should happen to exist and be a god. And even if Muhammad used to claim (but never proved) he got messages, he never proved they in case were from a god (he never proved anything at all of any essence).

019 8/10b: "- - - there is no help except from Allah". But is there from him? - he has never clearly proved it one single time in 1400 years.

020 8/10e: "- - - Allah is - - - Wise." Not if the Quran is the average of his wisdom".

Another fact: If Allah delivered the Quran and all its mistaken facts and other errors, all its internal and external contradictions, all its invalid logic, all its unclear language, etc. there is a good reason to laugh - and laugh loudly - from claims like this.

021 8/12a: “I (Allah*) will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers - - -". If Allah is omnipotent, why did he then not install enough terror to make them flee without a battle? Is Allah a small boy sitting at his PC playing "exiting" battles on his screen?

022 8/12d: "- - - smite ye above their necks and smite all their fingertips off them." This is told by Muslims (comment A8/15 translated from Swedish) to be an Arab expression meaning : #####"Kill absolutely every one of them". (Only to smite off their fingertips, would make them unable as good archers afterwards). A good and benevolent religion full of mercy. A good and benevolent religion full of mercy. But unclear language, at least for non-Arabs.

023 8/13b: "This (kill them*) because they contended against Allah and His Messenger - - -". When you know practically all Muhammad's armed conflicts were initiated by Muhammad, there is not a little irony in this: Kill them because they defend themselves.

024 8/13f: "- - - Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad*) - - -". Muhammad's main mantra to glue himself to his god and to his platform of power - the god.

####Note how close Muhammad attaches himself to the power of his claimed god - in plain words: "Obey me - Muhammad". Self-centered. Selfish? - it may seem so sometimes. You find this many, many places in the Quran. Power was the main thing Muhammad sought - and riches to gain more power. The Quran clearly indicates that power - and respect - meant even more for him than women. And he was eager for (young) women - willing ones and not willing ones - and at least one child.

025 8/14a: "- - - for those who resist Allah, is the penalty of the Fire". As practically all the may be 82 armed "episodes" - ######one every 6 weeks in Medina for "the Religion of Peace"!! - (http://www.1000mistakes.com/jihad-holywar/index.php names 63 of them and what was the purpose of each of them) under Muhammad, were aggression from Muhammad and his Muslims - mostly for loot, slaves and extortion - this is an interesting statement: Defend yourself against Muhammad's raiders who wants to steal everything you have got, rape and enslave your women and children, kill or enslave yourself - - - and go to Hell for "resisting Allah" as everything and every attack Muhammad made were "holy battles" - ghazwa - and "holy war" - jihad. Here is included every single attack and raid for wealth which made up 80-90% of his raids or more!

026 8/14b: "- - - for those who resist Allah - - -". And as Muhammad was Allah's only representative on Earth, this in reality meant "for those who resist Muhammad", and the threat of Hell was and is a mighty whip.

This also is one of the many negative names Muhammad used for non-Muslims.

027 8/15a: “When ye who believe meet the Unbelievers in hostile arrays, never turn your backs to them”. Fleeing warriors were of no value to Muhammad and other leaders.

028 8/16a: “If any (Muslim warrior*) do turn his back to the (the enemy*) on such a day (during battle) - - - he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell - - - “. Fight for Allah and Muhammad or end in Hell. One verse is the carrot, this one the whip. War is a central part of the life and the religion - - - "the Religion of Peace"!!! (This claim is a joke for anyone who really has read the Quran and its surahs from Medina).

029 8/16aa: “If any (Muslim warrior*) do turn his back to the (the enemy*) on such a day (during battle) - - - he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell - - - “. Incompatible with NT. In reality also with OT as in OT the fighting was for securing a national territory, not to fight "holy" wars. Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus and Muhammad in the same line of prophets - if Muhammad had been a real prophet? Answers not necessary.

030 8/17b: (The fights are acts of Allah) "in order that He might test the Believers - - -". But why - why - should Allah need to test his Muslims if he is omniscient and knows everything on beforehand? - not to mention if he on top is omnipotent and decides everything before it happens? There is no logic in this. But if the real story was that Muhammad needed an "explanation" for why a mighty god wanted them to fight - in reality for Muhammad - then this sentence suddenly is easy to understand; it is unbelievable what you can make people believe if they are naive or uneducated or both, not to mention if they want to belief from f.x. religious reasons or to have an excuses to steal and enslave and rape women and to become rich.

031 8/17ba: (The fights are acts of Allah) "in order that He might test the Believers - - -". Incompatible with especially NT. Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus and Muhammad - if he had been a real prophet - in the same line of prophets? We do not bother to give the answers.

032 8/17c: "- - - Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)." A proud, but never documented claim - but also a reminder you frequently meet in the Quran: Allah sees everything, so be good and be obedient to Allah's representative Muhammad (and his successors) - if not punishment will reach you in this or the next life. A good "fact"(?) at least for Muhammad - - - and it was Muhammad who told this to his followers. Also see 2/233h above.

033 8/18a: "- - - Allah is He Who makes feeble the plans and stratagem of the Unbelievers". True or not true - it is good for the moral of warriors to believe things like this.

034 8/19d: “Not the least good will your (the enemy’s) forces be to you even if they were multiplied: for verily (though it definitely is no proved verity/truth*) Allah is with those who believe”. Perhaps discouraging the enemy, but surely encouraging his own warriors. “Gott mit uns”, like the Nazi and earlier Germans said. Just this one is as old as the oldest religion - and still valid for everyone who believes it, and the uneducated, naïve early followers did believe - - - as do many Muslims even today.

035 8/20c: "Obey Allah and His Prophet (Muhammad*) - - -". Perhaps the for Muhammad best version of his main slogan gluing him to his god and his platform of power; Self-centered. Selfish?

036 8/22a: "- - - the worst beasts - - -". A not flattering name for the non-Muslims who did not believe in the preaching of Muhammad. (What would happen if we in f.x. N. Y. Times wrote that "Muslims are the worst of beasts"?)

037 8/22b: "- - - deaf and dumb - - -". Non-Muslims must be deaf and dumb not to hear that Muhammad preaches the truth. But it is one of the big facts in life that nobody is as deaf - and blind - as the one who is sure he has the answer - right or wrong and often wrong - and does not want to hear or see anything which can disturb his belief, or alternatively he is so sure that his belief is right that he does not bother to listen to conflicting, even true information.

038 8/22d: "- - - those (non-Muslims*) who understand not". It is good psychology - and practiced within more or less all sects - to tell that you have chosen this sect or religion because you are intelligent - especially the naive ones like to hear they are intelligent - and that "the others" still are "outside" because they understand not. Especially the naive ones and the ones who really want to believe it for some reason or other, may believe such words and even feel good because they are intelligent enough to understand and be inside. The irony is that the effect is the same in all sects and religion, even though most of them for obvious reasons are wrong. And the effect is smallest on the really intelligent and learned ones.

039 8/22e: "- - - those (non-Muslims*) who understand not". Perhaps the real explanation was that they understood too well that something was wrong?

040 8/23a: "If Allah had found in them any good, He would indeed have made them (non-Muslims*) listen - - -". Take it easy - there is nothing wrong with "our" belief. The reason why they do not believe in "our" claimed truth, is that they are so bad that Allah do not want them. Muslims use the same logic today: If anyone does not believe in Islam, it is because they do not know what they are talking about, or because they are bad, or because they are Islam-haters, or things like that - easy ways to flee from the fact that many who rejects Islam are intelligent people with much knowledge, and perhaps there is a reason why they reject it.

But: If Allah created them, how could they not be good quality?

041 8/24c: “Oh ye who believe! Give your response to Allah and His Prophet (Muhammad*), when He calleth you to that which will give you life - - -.” To follow the call for war, will give you a beautiful next life – - - and Muhammad a cheap and committed warrior.

042 8/24e: "- - - His (Allah's*) Prophet (Muhammad*) - - -". But Muhammad was no real prophet. See 8/20d above.

043 8/24h: "- - - it is He (Allah*) to whom ye shall (all) be gathered". If the Quran tells the truth - which it all too often does not; many mistakes and other kinds of errors.

044 8/25a: "- - - those of you who do wrong (non-Muslims*) - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses expressions like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code. It f.x. was very wrong not to go to war and kill and steal for Muhammad/Allah.

045 8/25b: "Allah is strict in punishment". See 3/77b above.

046 8/27b: "Betray not the trust of Allah - - -". Why should Allah have to rely on trust? - he according to the Quran knows everything, and has no need to rely on trust. But see 8/27c just below.

047 8/27c: "Betray not the trust of Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad*) - - -". But (see 8/27b just above) Muhammad to a large degree had to rely on his followers f.x. in battle, which may be the reason for this sentence - especially if Muhammad knew or suspected there was no Allah.

048 8/27d: "- - - Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad*) - - -". Muhammad's standard, but never proved mantra to glue himself to Allah and to his platform of power, Allah. You meet it nearly legion times in the Quran in some variations. Self-centered. Selfish?

049 8/28a: "- - - a trial - - -". But why does an omniscient god who knows absolutely everything, included your innermost thoughts, and who on top of all according to many places in the Quran predestines everything and every detail on Earth and in everyone's life, need trials of his people?!? There exists no logic in it - not unless it in reality was Muhammad who needed an explanation for why Allah wanted his followers to fight for Muhammad.

Predestination - Muhammad even came to stress predestination more and more as the years went by in Medina - one can speculate if the reason was that he needed warriors.



050 8/29d: "- - - (- - - right and wrong)- - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code.

051 8/29e: "- - - forgive you - - -". Only two can forgive - the victim (or his representative) and a god. Is Allah really a god - if he exists? Muhammad is the only source for claims about him, and the real Muhammad was not very reliable (cfr. al-Taqiyya - lawful lies, Kitman - lawful half-truths, broken oaths, deceptions, etc.). Also his book, the Quran, is choke full of mistakes, contradictions, etc. and not from any god.

As for forgiving from Allah: See 2/187d above.

052 8/31d: "- - - these (Muhammad's tales in the Quran*) are nothing but tales of the ancients". Something the skeptics had every right to say, as the tales in the Quran may be absolutely all are taken from older tales well known in Arabia at that time - folklore, tales, legends (even seemingly Biblical stories mostly were not from the Bible, but from legends - that is the real reason why they differ so much from the Bible), and even fairy tales were given some twists and repeated by Muhammad as true stories from his god. No god would need to do this - and if he did, he would not need to take stories only from in and around Arabia.

053 8/32d: "- - - if this (the Quran*) is indeed the Truth from Thee (Allah*) - - -". No god ever was involved in a book of a quality like the Quran - it is not from Allah if he is a god. May be if he is a devil and was not permitted to make it better.

054 8/33a: "But Allah was not going to send them a Penalty whilst thou (Muslims*) wast amongst them - - -". - you, too, could be hurt. One of the weaker of Muhammad's ways of explaining away requests for proof of Allah and of his own claimed, but never proved connection to Allah; there is no problem for an omniscient and omnipotent god to pick his victims.

055 8/34b: "- - - the Sacred Mosque - - -". = The Kabah mosque in Mecca. The fact that it was and is the most holy place on Earth for Allah and Muhammad, but totally irrelevant an non-interesting for Yahweh and for all the Jewish prophets, included Jesus - the place is not even mentioned in the Bible - is one more strong proof for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god, and for that Jesus and Muhammad did not belong to the same religion. Irony: The Kabah mosque was built for a pagan god (well, the irony disappears if the Quran is a made up book and Allah/al-Lah a pagan god.

056 8/34g: "- - - most of them (the people and the leaders in Mecca*) do not understand". At least they understood that something in the new religion was wrong, and also they understood it was a war for power. Dominating the Kabah meant power - and riches.

057 8/35b: "- - - the House (of Allah) - - -". A small thought here: The Kabah is very central to Allah - his most holy place on Earth. But Yahweh does not even bother to mention neither Kabah nor Mecca. Yahweh and Allah the same god? And none of the Jewish prophets, included Jesus even whispered a word about it or wished to make a pilgrimage there. Those prophets or Jesus in the same line or religion as Muhammad? Also see 8/34c above.

058 8/35c: "Their (the pagan Arabs*) prayer at the House (of Allah) is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands - - -". Muhammad’s haughty description. The deep irony here is that in reality there were a number of pagan customs and ceremonies connected to the Kabah, and Muhammad took over most of these pagan ways of worship more or less unabridged - the pagans obviously had known the correct ways of worship Allah, but only the pagans in Arabia. Two remarkable coincidences?

059 8/35d: "Taste ye (the pagans of Mecca before Muhammad took over*) the Penalty because ye blasphemed". If Allah is a made up god, blasphemy was/is impossible - there is no way of blaspheming a non-existent god. See 3/77b above.

060 8/36a: "- - - the Path of Allah - - -". The claimed road to the Quran's paradise - see 10/9f below. But if Allah does not exists, also this claimed paradise does not exists.

061 8/36c: "The Unbelievers will be gathered together in Hell - - -". As far as the "unbelievers" instead believe in the Bible, the Bible contradicts this. Also it depends on if the Quran tells only the truth and the full truth on this.

062 8/37d: "- - - the pure (Muslims*) - - - the impure (non-Muslims*) - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses words like these, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code.

063 8/37f: "They (mainly the non-Muslims*) will be the ones to have lost". If the Quran tells the full truth and only the truth about Allah and about the claimed next life. And only if none of the non-Muslims happen to believe in a real god (if such one exists). It here is ironic that Muslims all will be among the lost ones if the Quran does not tell the full and only truth - and on many points it is full of mistakes, so full that it is not from any god.

064 8/38c: "- - - their (sinners'/non-Muslims'*) past will be forgiven them - - -". This only is possible if Allah is an existing god, and in addition a benevolent and forgiving god. (In spite of all big and glorious words, f.x. 1/1a above indicates that he - if he exists - is not much forgiving. And remember that demands and deeds are much more reliable than cheap, big words. To find the real truth in a piece of propaganda, skip the glorious words and read the demands and deeds and rules, etc.

As for forgiving from Allah: See 2/187d above.

065 8/38e: "- - - the punishment of those before them (non-Muslims*) is already (a matter of warning for them)." How can it be a warning, as the Day of Doom has not arrived yet, and thus any punishment given? The claims about what is going to happen may be a warning, but not the happening itself, as it has not happened. But then perhaps Muhammad means the ruins in and around Arabia and/or folk tales about former tribes, both of which Muhammad claimed were destroyed because of sinning against Allah? The text is not clear on this.

##066 8/38-39a: “Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief (become Muslims*)), their past would be forgiven them, but if they persist, the punishment for those before them is already (a matter of warning for them). And fight with them until there is no more tumult and oppression, and there prevail justice (sharia?*) and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere”. Well, this - to say the least of it - contradicts and abrogates and kills :

#######2/256: “Let there be no compulsion in Religion” and some other older, “soft” verses.

##5/28: “If thou (“infidels”, Cain*) dost stretch thy hand against me (Muslims, Abel*), it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee - - -.” When you read this, remember that Muslims have few if any overall moral codes and no moral philosophy - only the words and example of Muhammad. What they have to do is to look for “What did Muhammad say about such things?” If he has said something, they take that as a moral code – good moral or not. If not, they have to look in the book: “Is there a parallel situation somewhere?” If they find it is – sometimes by stretching imagination – that is the way to act, or the alibi for how one wishes to act. Mind also that this verse is one of the very few in all the Quran that is in accordance with the teachings of Jesus – one of the very few. And it is totally “murdered” by abrogations.

(2 abrogations).

#067 8/38-39b: “Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief (= become Muslims*)) their past will be forgiven them; but if they persists - - - fight with them - - -”. In plain words: FIGHT AND KILL THE NON-MUSLIMS IF THEY DO NOT BECOME MUSLIMS.

Muslims like to quote the Quran saying that there shall be no forcing others to become Muslims - it is used as a proof for that such things never happen (but they quote 2/256 incorrect - it says: "Let there be - - -" - a wish or a recommendation, not an existing fact). But here it is said just the opposite: Become Muslims or fight. This in reality was often the choices the other part had: Come to Islam or fight us and die - though it should be mentioned that this mostly were the case when Islam waged war on pagans, not so often when the other part were Jews or Christians - though this, and also pogroms, happened frequently. Some Muslim wars of conquest were rather bloody (understatement) - included mass murders also after the victory.

These two verses are interesting because:

They oppose - contradicts - another verse (2/256: "Let there be no compulsion in religion") - which the Quran, Islam and Muslims say never happen.

They prove that force may be used to convert people to Islam.

They tell that refusing to convert to Islam is a valid reason for attack according to the Quran. (Actually all the 4 law schools in Islam accepted that the fact that an opponent was non-Muslim as sufficient reason for declaring holy war - jihad - on him and attack. This right up through the first part of the 20th century.)

###068 8/39a: “And fight with them (the Unbelievers who will not convert to Islam*) on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere”. Comments should be unnecessary. Fight war till Islam dominates everywhere. An order and an incitement.

We may add that “The Message of the Quran adds (remark 41 to surah 8) that only war in self defense is permitted, but self defense #######in “the widest meaning of the word”. And the “widest meaning” is a very wide expression – absolutely anything can be (and is) explained as being done in self defense, as the non-Muslims are the guilty ones for everything. One striking sample you may meet, is the “fact” that “all Americans are guilty of aggression against Islam and can be killed, because they pay tax to the state of USA”. No concession because they after all are forced to pay tax – few do it gladly. No concession to the millions that do not pay tax. No concession to the ones that oppose the war in the Middle East. Not even concession to the - still some millions (f.x. youths) - who do not pay tax (f.x. students) and in addition oppose that war. Everybody is guilty – slay them. That is how “in the widest meaning” sometimes is used. "Only in self defense" here in many cases simply is a bitter joke with no real meaning or value except as propaganda.



####069 8/39c: “- - - there (everywhere shall*) prevail - - - faith in Allah all together and everywhere - - -”. No compulsion in religion? At least this is a clear declaration of Islam's goal.


070 8/39d "- - - justice - - -". Take a look at the sharia laws and see how much in them which already are injustice. Then compare them to a normal code of moral instead of the Muslim one - and you find even more which is injustice or immoral.

071 8/39f: "- - - verily Allah doth see all that they (non-Muslims*) do". Why then does he have to test people? - Muslims and non-Muslims alike?

###072 8/40a: “If they (the enemy*) refuse (to stop fighting – and remember that for hundreds of years the Muslims mostly were the aggressors*), be sure that Allah is your Protector - - -.” Allah helps you in any fight against “infidels”- real defense or "defense in the widest meaning of the word" = attack or raids for wealth and slaves and power and for expanding Islam.

################The fact that Islam needs to add "in the widest meaning of the word" to the word "defense", documents that they know it often is not real defense.

073 8/40b: "- - - Allah is your (Muslims'*) Protector - the Best to protect and the Best to help". If he exists and is a god approximately like the Quran claims. But remember that there is not one single documented case of help or protection from Allah throughout the times anywhere in the world - a number of claims, but not one documented case".

074 8/41a: “And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah (/Muhammad*) - - -.” These 20% - 100% if the victim gave in without a fight - in reality were for Muhammad to use. Did he "demand no payment for what he did" like he claims some places in the Quran?

All this is totally foreign to Yahweh and Jesus - one more proof for that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god and Jesus and Muhammad not in the same religion: Too different moral codes, etc.

075 8/41c: “And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah (/Muhammad*) (an all if the victims gave in without a fight*) - - -.” Try to find something like this in the Bible, not to mention in the NT! Yahweh and Allah the same god? An imbecile question. (The only time Yahweh asked for part of a booty - and then for his priest and the Levites (4. Mos. 31/28-29) he asked for 1/500 of half and 1/50 of the other half).

Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus and Muhammad in the same line of anything or in the same religion? Do not laugh.

076 8/41d: “And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah (/Muhammad*) - - -.” Which means that 80% is for the warriors and leaders in the war – an economical incentive which for many a poor man counted much more than the religion – war and terror = good business. Many became well-to-do, many became rich, and some became very rich – and were dream models for new generations of robber warriors and robber barons. But Muslims and Islam never mentions the cost in destruction and destroyed lives which were the price millions had to pay for this unjust prosperity of the robbers and destroyers. It frequently took (the surviving) locals 100-200 years and more just to regain their standard of life, not to mention freedom. The warriors of the good and benevolent god of “the Religion of Peace” frequently mass murdered and massacred and enslaved “en gross” – and stole everything. Jerusalem f.x. got a hunger catastrophe after being occupied in 638 AD - the Muslims stole everything, included the food.

077 8/41e: "- - - out of all the booty that ye may acquire - - - a fifth share is assigned to Allah - and to the Messenger (and all to be paid to Muhammad*) - - -". No place in the NT Yahweh or Jesus demand part of stolen things (politely called booty). One single place in OT Yahweh demands a small share (see 8/41c above). Even compared to this Muhammad - not one time like Yahweh, but each time - demanded on behalf of Allah 10 - 100 times as much - and not for sacrifice (mostly for "gifts" (bribes) to stay popular and stay in power, for "gifts" to buy new or keep doubting followers, to pay for more war, and some for Muhammad and his family - and some for the poor). The same god, like the Quran and Islam claims? - and Muhammad and Jesus in the same line of prophets like that book and Islam claims? - believe it if you want, but you have to want to believe it to be able to do so".

078 8/41g: "- - - to Allah - and to the Messenger (Muhammad*), and to near relatives (In YA1209 we find "In the Prophet's (Muhammad's*) lifetime a certain portion was assigned to him and his near relatives"), orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer- - -". He forgot to mention (?) for the expansion of Islam and for war. Also see 63/5a below.

079 8/41h: “- - - the revelation (the Quran*) We (Allah*) sent down - - -“. A book with that many mistakes, that much invalid logic, etc. is neither made by a god, nor revered as a Mother Book in his heaven, nor sent down by an omniscient god.

080 8/41k: "- - - the Day of Testing (in the battle of Badr*) - - -". But WHY do an omniscient and omnipotent and claimed benevolent god need to test people by making them kill each others, when he as an omniscient knows everything, and as an omnipotent makes a satirical joke of all tests because in his Plan he has decides all that will happen in the battle and everything else before and after it happens? The whole concept just is black humor and sadism. But if it was Muhammad who needed a way to explain away his need for battles to gain wealth for bribes and power, then suddenly there is logic in it - people who wants to believe, may believe even stories like this, especially if they are naive and/or uneducated.

081 8/42d: "Even if ye had made a mutual appointment to meet - - -". No miracle or influence from any god was necessary to explain this meeting: The Meccans were searching for the Muslims, and as they knew where the caravan was, they knew approximately where to look for them.

082 8/42h: "And verily Allah knoweth and heareth (all things)". See 2/233h above.

083 8/44c: "For to Allah do go all questions go back (for decision)." All and everything ends with Allah for decision - because it is Allah who decides absolutely everything, and he decides it by predestination and according to his unchangeable Plan, which nobody and nothing can change, according to the Quran. (But if nothing can be changed from his predestined plan, which help can then f.x. prayers to Allah or pilgrimage or good deeds make? - everything is unchangeably locked to his Plan already according to the Quran!? - and man can have no free will).

084 8/45b: “When ye meet a force, be firm - - -.” Order and pep-talk. But why if Allah already has decided what is going to happen? There is no logic in this in that case - and in many other cases. (But there is logic if all the tales about predestination just are tales to make Muhammad's naive and blindly believing warriors believe that war and battles are no more dangerous than playing with your children or tending your fields back home. But how come that Allah had predestined the time of your death, but not when you were to become rich? - you only became rich if you went on raids or wars and stole things, not if you at just the same time instead were sleeping in your bed.

085 8/46a: "And obey Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad*) - - -". Likely the most valuable version of this mantra Muhammad often used in the Quran, if his wish was to make his followers obey himself. MANY other "prophets" have said and done similar things for that reason.

####Note how close Muhammad attaches himself to the power of his claimed god - in plain words: "Obey me - Muhammad". You find this many, many places in the Quran. Self-centered. Selfish? Power was the main thing Muhammad sought - and riches to gain more power. The Quran clearly indicates that power - and respect - meant even more for him than women. And he was eager for (young) women - willing ones and not willing ones - and at least one child.

086 8/46d: "- - - and fall into no disputes, lest ye lose heart - - -". Do not debate the religion - you may come to know the weak spots of it and see that something is wrong and start thinking. A normal point of view from leaders of extreme sects. Procelyting, yes, disputing and perhaps getting unwanted facts, no.

###087 8/46f: "- - - Allah is with those (Muslims*) who patiently persevere - - -". Well, at least it is very clear that this stratagem works, and especially against democracies, as one of the weak sides of democracies is that all too often fractions - often big fractions - do not like to fight, and wants to evade fighting, or if it starts they wants to stop it too early.


088 8/48a: "Remember Satan made their (sinful) acts seem alluring to them - - -". #####Irony: A number of acts accepted or advocated or even ordered in the Quran are from sinful to extremely sinful in all other of the large religions - and nearly all of the small ones - and also conflicting human rights and against all normal moral laws and rules. Not to mention that it conflicts with the very basis of all inter human moral: "Do onto others like you want others do onto you". The Quran is not made by any god, not to mention a good or benevolent god - too many errors, etc. and too horrible moral - or immoral - code. If the Quran is made by dark forces or even by one or more selfish humans, it is not strange if Satan has made the Muslims' sinful acts just and alluring to them. May thus Muslims be included here?


089 8/48b: "- - - for Allah is strict in punishment." A strong reminder: Be good, be obedient, and fight in battle - if not Allah will punish you strictly. The good and benevolent "Religion of Peace"? Also see 3/77b above.

090 8/49c: "Allah is exalted in Might - - -". Two more of all the never proved or documented statements or claims the Quran is overflowing with. Use your brain and your knowledge, and not only your eyes and ears, and you will find lots of them - in the Quran and in the words from Islam and from Muslims. In this case it is told about an often claimed, never proved might.

091 8/49d: "Allah is - - - wise". Not if he made the Quran.

Another fact: If Allah delivered the Quran and all its mistaken facts and other errors, all its internal and external contradictions, all its invalid logic, etc. there is a good reason to laugh - and laugh loudly - from claims like this.

092 8/50a: This is one of the many anti non-Muslim pep-talks in the Quran - we point to a few of them. Look, and you will find a lot more.

##093 8/50-51: "Taste the Penalty of the blazing Fire (of Hell*) - Because of (the deeds) which your (own) hands sent forth". This is a Quranic way of saying: "Because of the bad (or good) deeds you have done" - you meet this expression some times in the book. If a person does not have free will - or even limited free will like some Muslims try to explain the problem away with - it is against all and any moral law and feeling of justices to judge him guilty and judge him to Hell. If Allah does this, he is a very unjust or worse god. Because of this the Quran and Islam have to insist on that man has free will and commits the bad deeds from his own will contradicting and breaking Allah's laws and wishes and his Plan. But this is not possible if another and many times repeated 100% clear statement in the Quran is true: Allah decides everything - even the smallest details - and he decides it long time before it happens, as everything is part of his unchangeable Plan. These two statements are impossible to combine - even Islam admits this (here we are speaking about Islam, not about separate Muslims, many of whom do not have enough education and/or intelligence to be able to see the impossibility). What Islam/Muslim high scholars say is (A6/141 - 6/143 in the English 2008 edition): "This is impossible to explain and impossible for humans to understand or explain. But all the same it has to be true; as it is said (by Allah) in the Quran, it must be true (!!*)" The ultimate surrender to blind belief, not to say to blindness.

###This even more so as there exist immaterial laws which are unbreakable also for omnipotent gods. (A sample which is easy to understand, is that if you add the mathematical 1 to another mathematical 1, there only is one possible answer even for a god - the mathematical 2. Among the immaterial laws you will find a number of such samples, included some of the laws of logic, one of which the statement "full predestination + free will for man = true" is trying to break. Impossible. And beware that "partly free will" - a Muslim way of trying to explain the problem away - is as meaningless as full free will, if there is complete predestination like the Quran claims many places. And the other way around: Full clairvoyance or precognition - ability to see or know the future - is impossible for a god if man has even partly free will; after Allah thinks 'now I know the future', a man always can change his mind once more. But partly precognition is possible (this is what Yahweh has the Bible makes clear)).

##094 8/51: “Allah is never unjust to his servants”. Wrong. A star example: A woman is to be strictly punished for illegal sex after being raped, if she cannot produce 4 male eye witnesses to the rape. This is one of the most inhuman, immoral and unjust laws which exists on this Earth – at least in civilized or semi-civilized cultures.

095 8/52c: “- - - Signs of Allah - - -.” Invalid as proof for Allah. See 2/39b above. (Though just in this case there may have been valid signs if the old books tell the truth, but for Yahweh in case.)

096 8/52f: "- - - Allah is strong, and strict in punishment - - -". See 3/77b above.

097 8/53a: "- - - until they (a people*) change what is in their (own) souls - - -". This is not possible for them if Allah predestines everything like the Quran tells many places. Then only Allah can change it. Full predestination + free will - even partly free will - is an impossibility even for an omnipotent god. As said before, in the realm of the immaterial world there are things impossible even for gods.

098 8/53c: "- - - Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things). The often repeated warning: Allah sees everything and knows everything. If you do good he will be kind to you (at least in the next life), but mind you: If you do bad he will punish you. Be good and obedient to Muhammad! ###Remember: The best of all deeds is to go on raids and war. Also see 2/233h above.

099 8/54b: "- - - the People of Pharaoh (Ramses II*) - - - treated as false the Signs of their Lord (Allah*) - - -". See 8/49a above.

100 8/54d: "- - - We (the god*) drowned the People of Pharaoh, for they were all oppressors - - -". What then about Muslims, as the Quran and its rules and orders about oppressing all other people are not from a god? (No god makes a book of a quality like the Quran - it would be heresy and an insult to any god to blame him for a book where so much is wrong.)

##################For the Quran it is the official goal and policy that all non-Muslims shall be subdued and oppressed.

101 8/55a: "For the worst beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him - - -". Quite likely - - - if the Quran is not a made up book and Allah a fiction. At least that book is not from a god - too much is wrong.

#####102 8/55b: "- - - the worst beasts - - -". One of the many names Muhammad uses for "non-Muslims". Is it strange that Islam and many Muslims have a superiority complex towards all non-Muslims? - or that they often are reluctant to mingle too much with non-Muslims?

Slander, discrimination, and apartheid.

But here is a fact which is even more chilling: In YA1223 we read about non-Muslims: "The same brute creatures - - -". The distaste and inferiority propaganda against non-Muslims is not a phenomenon of the old times, but is the same now - the comments are written in modern times and are the words of modern commentators.

More slander, discrimination, and apartheid - #############and from today's Islam and Muslims.

If the Quran had been any other book than just a claimed "holy" book belonging to a religion with much political power, it had been prohibited in most civilized countries for inciting to discrimination and apartheid and for distaste mongering, hate mongering, and war mongering.

(There will come a separate small chapter about this when we finish our "operation Quran" - in 2016 AD we hope). 

103 8/55c: "- - - they (non-Muslims*) will not believe (in Muhammad and his Quran*)- - -". Perhaps the real reason - at least for some - was that they had too much knowledge and saw that something was - and is - very wrong and, therefore, were unable to believe in it. It is difficult or impossible to believe in things which are proved wrong, for people able to see.

###104 8/57a: “If you gain the upper hand over them in war, disperse, with them those who follow them, that they may remember.” Many a Muslim warrior and warlord followed this order thoroughly – they certainly were remembered many places - - - except by all those who were dead. Sind (now approximately Pakistan), India, Armenia, Greeks in Turkey to mention a few - and not to forget Africa, included the slave hunters - tens of millions to the Muslim areas north of Sahara and in Asia (15 millions arrived alive according to Encyclopedia Britannica - the lowest number we have found (to all the Americas 14 mill. and a much lower death rate during transport, also this number according to Encyclopedia Britannica - the death rates during transports to Asia and Mediterranean Africa and especially the ones marching through Sahara, are so high that we are reluctant to believe it and therefore do not quote them)), plus the millions of slaves in Muslim areas south of Sahara. Plus the ones killed or wounded during the slave hunts. (The American and other slave traders seldom hunted for slaves themselves. They bought from local slave hunters - a large percentage of them Muslims.)

#105 8/57b: “If you gain the upper hand over them in war, disperse, with them those who follow them, that they may remember". Please compare this to NT.

106 8/58a: “If thou fearest treachery from any group, throw back (their Covenant) to them - - -”. It was enough to “fear treachery” - or say they did - then the situation for non-Muslims suddenly became more unsafe. This has happened many times throughout history - sometimes resulting in pogroms and massacres. A late one was in Indonesia some years ago some 2ooo ethnical Chinese Indonesian citizen were murderer and a huge ransacking spree took place against ethnic Chinese Indonesian citizens (and that was not even because of fear, but because of the Chinese worked more and often were better educated and had become richer than Muslims), and one where at least 200ooo ethnic Chinese were killed 1 - 2 generations ago. A much worse story was against Armenians around 1900 AD. Some 1.2 million killed and no one knows how many girls/women were kidnapped for rape and/or harems. This story was in the news in 2007, and Turkey still does not have the backbone to face it. The same for Greeks in Turkey early in last century - the Turks do not have the backbone to tidy up after those atrocities, too. Darfur with at least 200ooo slaughtered civilians - takes place today (when this is written). And there is no guaranty for the future, as there are many verses in the Quran telling Muslims how to treat non-Muslims. There always are verses to be found in the Quran telling Muslims to kill or suppress any non-Muslims.

There have been many more happenings of the same kind (see our book about Jihad/"holy war") - even though Muslims never talk about other facts than that at times - sometimes even long times - Muslim countries were relatively safe for Jews, etc. if they accepted inferior status and no power, little legal security and extra taxes - jizya and land tax (which sometimes could be heavy, because the Quran limited the rulers' possibilities to tax Muslims but put no limit on the jizya or land tax).

This quote also tells a lot about the person Muhammad. Especially as he practiced it sometimes. F.x. some of his attacks were on suspicion only.

107 8/58c: "- - - Allah loveth not the treacherous". What then about Muslims when they follow their great idol Muhammad, who said - and practiced - "War is betrayal", "War is deceit"?

#108 8/60a: “Against them (the unbelievers*) make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, included steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies (and Muhammad’s enemies*) - - -.” Inside information from “the Religion of Peace”.

We may add the ####modern Muslim point of view ###########of today (YA1226): "It is your duty to be ready against all, for the sacred Cause under whose banner you are fighting". (YA1227): Be always ready to put your resources (wealth and life*) into your Cause. You will not do so in vain. Allah's reward will come in various forms. He knows all, and His reward will always be more generous than you can possibly deserve". (YA1228) "It (fighting for Islam*) should be a joyful duty not for itself, but to establish the reign of peace and righteousness (remember here that words like this is used in accordance with the Quran's partly immoral moral code*) and Allah's Law". There are more like this. Also today Islam really is "the Religion of Peace".

109 8/60b: "- - - strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies - - -). Compare this to NT: "Turn the other cheek" (if someone strikes you on the cheek, do not take revenge, but turn the other cheek towards him), and "Love your enemies and pray for them" (f.x. Matt.5/43-48).

##110 8/60c: (A8/64 - 2008 English edition 8/65): "- - - the enemies of Allah - - -". Definition according to A8/64: #######"(The enemies of Allah are*) everyone who deliberately opposes and seeks to undermine the moral laws lay down by Allah" - and those people automatically are "an enemy of those who believe (Muslims*) in Him (Allah*)". The definition of "the enemies of Allah" is very interesting because of the Quran's too often very primitive, medieval or even pre-medieval, and at too many point immoral moral code based on a Nazi-like apartheid suppressive ("Übermench" rule, "Umtermench" suppressed) war ideology, and because of the extremely immoral moral underlying and expressed in some of the Sharia laws (f.x. "a woman is to be seriously punished for unlawful sex if she is raped, but cannot bring 4 male witnesses to the act" or: "a man who correctly accuses a woman for unlawful sex is unjust unto Allah, if he cannot bring 4 witnesses" - even though an omniscient Allah knows he is speaking the truth). The definition is given is these words: Allah's enemy is "everyone who deliberately opposes and seeks to undermine the moral laws laid down by Allah (= Muhammad's quoted words in the Quran*) - - -". Oppose f.x. the "lawful and good" military (nearly always Muslim) aggressions and raids, stealing/robbing, raping, extortion, enslaving, betraying ("war is betrayal"), murdering, etc., etc. during "holy wars" - and practically everything is called jihad (holy war) - or opposing the incitements for going to war on the slightest religious reason or alibi ("self defense in the widest meaning of the word" - the ideology that makes every disagreement a jihad) and you are an enemy of Allah.

And at least as bad: As the Quran with all its mistakes, etc. is from no god, also its so-called moral also is not from any god, included Allah if he was a god.

Also of sinister meaning is YA's comment that "- - - everyone one - - - who actively opposes and seeks to undermine - - - (Allah's/Muhammad's (im)moral laws*) is, "eo ipso", an enemy of those who believe in Him (Allah*)". If you talk against Islam and its partly immoral moral rules, etc. you do not disagree with the Muslims, but you are an enemy of them. No wonder connections - or lack of such - sometimes are strained, and no wonder killing non-Muslims often are ok. Who wants to make friends with enemies? - enemies it is ok to kill. "The Religion of Peace" founded by a good and benevolent god?

And most thought provoking: Everybody living according to normal moral codes based on something like "do to others like you want others do to you", has GOT to break the moral code of the Quran, because this one quite often is different or very different from "do to others like you want others do to you". Thus everybody living according to normal moral codes unavoidably become "enemies of Allah", according to the definition above in this point.

111 8/60d: "- - - and others beside (other enemies of Allah or of you*), whom ye may not know - - -". YA (comment YA 1226): "There are always lurking enemies whom you may not know, but whom Allah knows. It is your duty to be ready against all, for the sacred Cause under whose banner you are fighting". There always are non-Muslims wanting to attack you, so always beware and be prepared for war with the untrustworthy unbelievers (NB: "the untrustworthy unbelievers", not "the untrustworthy of the unbelievers"). And remember: These comments are not written around 650 AD, but in modern times - they represent today's thinking of (many of) today's influential Muslims.


112 8/60f: "- - - unjustly". Beware that when the Quran uses words like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral moral code. F.x. to kill and steal and rape and suppress in the name of Allah is to behave justly, if you do not want to go to war for Muhammad or his successors, you are behaving very unjustly. And for you not to be treated unjustly? - promises about claimed payment in a possible next life from a claimed, but never proved god are very cheap wages from a warlord.

113 8/61a: “But if the enemy inclines towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace.” Well, that was what was said. All too often it was not heeded if the Muslims were strong enough – or it resulted in a piece of terror or at best of suppression.

114 8/61c: "- - - trust in Allah - - -". Risky as long as Islam is not able to prove one millimeter about him - just claims and cheap words. In all other aspects of life blind belief is the most sure way to be cheated, and the one only serving claims and fast words in real world all too often is a cheater and deceiver - most often looking for power or wealth and sometimes women for himself.

115 8/61d: "- - - He (Allah*) is the One who heareth and knoweth (all things)". See 2/233 and 8/53a+c above.

116 8/62c: "He (Allah*) it is that hath strengthened thee with His aid - - -". Frequently claimed, never proved. In all history of Islam there is not one single proved case of aid or help from Allah. Many claims, but not one proved case.

#117 8/63a: "- - - He (Allah*) is Exalted in might - - -". One of the many never proved claims in the Quran. Just look for them - they are so many and so easy to see. Claims anyone can make on behalf of his god(s) free of charge - words are that cheap. If either the Bible or the Quran is correct about this, both Jesus and some of the older prophets in the Bible - at least Elisha /1.Kings 17/22 and 2. Kings 4/34-35), the disciple Peter (Acts 9/40) and even Paul (Acts 20/10) proved their connections to a god by resurrecting the dead, and many others by other miracles and/or real foretelling (a special kind of miracles). Muhammad was totally unable to prove anything at all - just claims and fast words. Even Islam (though not all Muslims) admits there exists no proofs for Allah - a main reason why Islam praises blind belief (taqlid) and scorns questions for proofs so much.

118 8/63b: "- - - He (Allah*) is - - - Wise". Not if he made the Quran - too much is wrong.

Another fact: If Allah delivered the Quran and all its mistaken facts and other errors, all its internal and external contradictions, all its invalid logic, etc. there is a good reason to laugh - and laugh loudly - from claims like this.

If the Quran simply belongs among the apocryphal (we always use the word in the meaning "made up") books, many things are easy to understand, and it at least belongs in that line and tradition, even if it is further "out" than most of the others. Muhammad also fits the picture of the leader of an apocryphal sect, admittedly more immoral and bloody than most of the others.

Also see 30/40h below.

119 8/64a: "O Prophet! (Muhammad*)" But Muhammad was no real prophet - see 8/65a below.

120 8/65c: “O Prophet! (Allah says*) Rouse the Believers to the fight.” Some words for a presumably good and peaceful god. And some task for a god and perfect kind man representing and the great idol of a religion insisted to be a good, human and peaceful one - "the Religion of Peace"(!).

121 8/65g: “If there are twenty amongst you (Muslim warriors*), patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred (non-Muslims*), if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are people without understanding”. A good pep talk, at least to blind believers. During the civil war in USA the South said something similar - but lost the war. But the Quran is right on one point: Non-Muslims tends not to understand the fanatic and fatalistic way of thinking impressed on Muslim warriors and terrorists - they go on and on and refuse to give in. On the other hand Japanese soldiers were just like that during WWII, but they all the same totally lost the war - even Americans were able to learn.

122 8/65-66: Pure pep-talk and war propaganda.

123 8/66b: “- - - but (even so (even if Allah has lightened the fight for you - by sending angle warriors?*)) if there are a hundred of you, they will vanquish two hundred, and if a thousand, they will vanquish two thousand, with the leave of Allah - - -”. Another pep talk, and somewhat more realistic than 8/65e above. Besides: If you lose, know that is was not the enemy who was too strong for you, but Allah in his unfathomable wisdom who wanted it like that. (And Allah always has a good reason leading to a final victory).

But why cannot an omnipotent god just decide how he wants things to be and make it like that? Why does a presumably good and kind and loving and benevolent and omnipotent god have to let humans live through so much blood and murder and hate and rape and misery? Something in the Quran just does not add up.

124 8/66c: “- - - for Allah is with those who patiently persevere.” This is a pep talk all non-Muslims should forever remember - fanatic Muslim warriors never give in and never stop. And also: How many soldiers in the future did Spain kill by pulling out their few men from the East, and proving to Muslims just these words which are repeated and repeated in the Quran? - a proof that now may be strengthened by Australia pulling out, and by USA pulling out too early.

But a good and efficient pep-talk for Muslim warriors? Yes.

But - - - is it true?

125 8/67b: "- - - a Prophet (Muhammad*) - - -". But Muhammad was no real prophet. See 8/65a above.

##########126 8/67a: “It is not fitting for a Prophet (Muhammad*) that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land”. One of the moral and ethical real pinnacles in Islam. It takes an effort - and resources - to take care of prisoners. This Muhammad did not like - and voila! - Allah here ordered him to kill all prisoners (of course with the exception of the ones one wanted as slaves or wanted to keep for extorting money for from their families - or women and girls for "personal use").

No doubt at all: A morally and ethically superior god and religion, and with lots of empathy - not to forget the perfect and good and kind and good-hearted Muhammad who was free from sins. (Actually there never were philosophers thinking on morality and ethics in Islam like f.x. in the old Greece or later in the West. Muhammad just picked from the contemporary traditions - in some cases he picked good ideas, in other cases he chose rather inhuman ideals, and that was it, as it never later has been permitted to think about whether his rules are good - or the best - or not.)

This quote also tells a lot about the person Muhammad.

Does anybody wonder why Muslim warriors and terrorists sometimes murder prisoners - guilty or not?

#127 8/67c: "- - - Allah looketh to the Hereafter - - -". Perhaps - if he exists and if he is a god (well, perhaps even if he is no god, but someone or something dressed up from the dark forces - also Hell is a Hereafter).

128 8/67d: "- - - He (Allah*) is Exalted in might - - -". One of the many never proved claims in the Quran. Just look for them - they are so many and so easy to see. Claims anyone can do on behalf of his god(s) free of charge - words are that cheap. If either the Bible or the Quran is correct about this, both Jesus and some of the older prophets in the Bible and f.x. Peter and Paul proved their connections to a god by miracles and/or real foretelling (a special kind of miracles). Muhammad was totally unable to prove anything at all - just claims and fast words. Even Islam (though not all Muslims) admits there exists no proofs for Allah - a main reason why Islam praises blind belief (taqlid) and scorns questions for proofs so much.

129 8/67e: "- - - He (Allah*) is - - - Wise". Not if he made the Quran - too much is wrong.

Another fact: If Allah delivered the Quran and all its mistaken facts and other errors, all its internal and external contradictions, all its invalid logic, etc. there is a good reason to laugh - and laugh loudly - from claims like this.

130 8/68a: "Had it not been for the previous ordainment from Allah, a severe penalty would have reached you for the (ransom) ye took." This somewhat obscure text is said to refer to an episode connected to the battle of Badr. Muhammad's uncle al 'Abbas (his descendants later founded the Abbasside dynasty of caliphs) was taken prisoner during that battle, and the Muslims took ransom for him - which they should not have done. But as Allah (?) then explained (Allah normally cleared up troubles for Muhammad afterwards, instead of explaining first, so trouble could have been avoided - not very considerate of an omniscient god) that this was part of his preordained Plan ("previous ordainment" - predestined) it was ok. Muhammad never did anything wrong - and if he all the same did, Allah fixed a rule which told that it all the same was not wrong. Convenient.)

1. Allah often solved problems or believed sins for Muhammad - and always in such a way that Muhammad was right or the sin in reality was no sin or a forgivable sin. Reason for thinking?

2. As said above: Such solving normally came after things were done - not before so that the problem or sin could have been avoided. Reason for thinking for you and us?

3. There are many details - or not details - in the Quran specific for Arabia or specific for the time of Muhammad, or specific for the life of Muhammad, but in reality irrelevant for the religion - here Muhammad's uncle. How come that all this ended in the Quran? The Quran after all is claimed to be a copy of the "mother book" in Allah's part of heaven, and how come that it ended in that book, written billions of years ago? Not to mention: Do Allah really revere a book full of such prosaic details and mistakes? - it is said in the Quran that the "mother book" is revered at Allah and by his angels. And how come that all these details are from Arabia and from the time of Muhammad mostly? - the world is much wider, the time is much longer both ways - a god for all the world and all the times should not be obliged to be time and place specific? And what about all the 124ooo former prophets (according to Islam)? - not one of them could understand what this one and many other details meant, as they did not know what the Quran was talking about, or in other cases they lived far off and could not understand Arab references. No omniscient god wanting to be understood by all people to all times would write so time and place specific. Reason for thinking things over for us?


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This is one of the most disgusting and revealing sentences in the Quran.

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######131 8/69a: “ "But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, #######lawful and good - - -”. This is one more of the moral and ethical pinnacles in the Quran: Wage war, and then it is “lawful and good” to steal and rob and plunder and extort - and rape the women and girl children and take slaves. It actually is connected to 8/68a above, but like so often in the Quran specific episodes, etc, is given general meaning.

But of course this made it easy and cheap for Muhammad and his successors to get warriors. That such behavior is a catastrophe for any and all victims - and in some cases set back the civilization may be some hundred years like in Persia/Iran - does not count, as non-Muslim “Untermench” ("sub-humans" in Nazi German) do not count.

This even more so as for fanatics nearly every situation they do not like, can be defined as war against Islam “in the widest meaning of the word” - not to mention that according to Islam’s definition all areas not dominated by Islam, are “land of war”. Really a morally and ethical superior religion - compare f.x. to the silly and invalid "Do unto others like you want others do against you", which many religions and culture have as their "constitution". And really a peaceful one.

And honestly the word “good” in ”lawful and good” classifies Muhammad, the Quran and Islam. Laws can be twisted and remade and it is no problem for an absolute dictator to make what laws he wants and thus make things “lawful” – quotation marks used on purpose. But the word “good” is an absolute – flexible “borders”, but fundamentally an absolute. Allah’s/Muhammad’s real rules for behavior against all outsiders is way outside “good”, and the hypocrisy in the using of abrogated verses in the Quran to make outsiders believe something else, makes this aspect of the religion and its hypocrisy even more disgusting.

This quote also tells a lot about the person Muhammad.

########To us this is perhaps the most disgusting and revealing sentence in the entire Quran and the entire Islam - and even more so because it is done in the name of their god.

Also: Combine this quote with Islam's slogan: "Islam is the Religion of Peace" and "Allah is good and benevolent" and weep - or laugh.

What lacks now is that Islam starts claiming that "Islam is the Religion of Honesty - no Lying, no Deceiving, no Stealing". (Remember here that looting and robbing both = stealing.)


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132 8/69b: "- - - lawful and good - - -". Beware that when the Quran uses expressions like this, it is in accordance with its own partly immoral code - sometimes very immoral.

#####133 8/69c: "- - - lawful and good - - -". If these words and the context it is taken from ("- - - enjoy what (loot, slaves, and women + destruction and murder*) ye took in war (normally of aggression*), lawful and good - - -", were all you knew about the Quran and Islam, this alone would be enough to remove it from the civilized world and transfer it to the dark, harsh, and inhuman Medieval ages or earlier. This even more so as this is not "abrogated" by today's Islam, but on the contrary preached and even practiced today (during armed conflicts and in terrorism) in some Islamic organizations and groups.

134 8/70c: “O Prophet! Say to those who are captives in your hands: ‘If Allah findeth any good in your hearts, He will give you something better than what has been taken from you, and He will forgive you - - -.” It also is a bit ironic that Muhammad had attacked and stolen and raped and murdered and enslaved - - - but it was his victims who needed forgiving. Some religion.

As for forgiving from Allah: See 2/187d above.

135 8/70d: "- - - He (Allah*) will forgive you (Muhammad's victims*) - - -". But Allah can forgive nobody unless he exists and in addition is a god. And even then it is an open question if he can forgive, because forgiving means to change his predestine Plan which the Quran several places states that nobody and nothing can change. But here it is expected that your wish for forgiving will change his Plan, which as said it impossibly can do.

It also tells volumes about Islam that it is their victims who are claimed to need forgiving, in spite of that normally it was and is Islam and/or Muslims who were/are the aggressors.

Another point is that to forgive - or for that case to punish or reward or fulfill prayers - means for Allah to change his Plan considering the sinner/person, something which according to the Quran is something nobody and nothing can make him do. See 2/187d above.

136 8/70e: "- - - Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful". See 1/1a above.

137 8/71a: “- - - if they (prisoners of war) have treacherous designs against thee - - -”. How can an enemy prisoner “have treacherous designs” against someone? Per definition an enemy - even a prisoner - can fight you with different means (a prisoner f.x. can try to flee), but that is fighting, not betrayal. (To betray someone there has to be some sort of positive connection between the two parts - if not it is not betrayal or “treacherous designs“). Some Muslims say this refers to captives pretending to become Muslims to save themselves - but the Quran clearly says that what a Muslim is forced to say against his will, is not to sin, and why should it be different for non-Muslims? Muhammad also clearly told that if somebody said he was a Muslim, this should be respected.

138 8/71d: "And Allah is He Who hath (full) knowledge and wisdom". See 8/53c and 8/63a above.

###139 8/72d: “Those who believed - - - and fought for the Faith, with their property (= gave money - like many Muslims do even today*) and their persons (= went to war personally*), in the cause of Allah, as well as those who gave them (warriors, terrorists*) asylum and aid (like what a large numbers of Muslims do today also - at least giving money and sympathy and aid to “the cause”, included terrorism*) - all these (are good Muslims*)”. Comments unnecessary.

140 8/73c: “- - - unless you do this, (protect each other (included warriors and terrorists*)), there would be tumult and oppression on earth, and great mischief (because of the bad non-Muslims*)” No comments - especially since there is neither suppression of, nor mischief against non-Muslims in Muslim countries(?), or for that case in most non-Muslim countries (terrorism normally is the other way - from Muslims against non-Muslims).

#############141 8/73d: Comment to this verse in A8/82: "The fact of their (non-Muslims'*) being bent on denying the truth the divine message (the Quran*) constitutes - - - precludes the possibility of their ever being real friends to the believers (the Muslims)". Clear words for your money: If they are not Muslims, you cannot be real friends to them. Add to this the demand for dominance and you have a modern word: Apartheid. #####AND THIS IS TODAY'S MESSAGE TO MUSLIMS FROM ISLAM'S SCHOLARS AND THUS FROM ISLAM.


##########142 8/74b: "Those who believe, and adopt exile, and fight for the Faith (today potentially ca. 0.5% according to Muslims - some say 1% - on Internet = ca. 6 mill. - or some 4 million excluded the children (future fighters/terrorists*) - say some 3-4 million youths and adults are actual or potential terrorists today (double if you say 1%) - in the cause of Allah. Then there are those who give (them) asylum and aid (potentially some 10 - 15% = 120 - 180 million included the 0.5% and children) and aid ((often money) some 30% according to science at least "understand why" the activists are active = some 360 million included children - children are included for the simple reason that we only have the total numbers of Muslims) - these are (all) in very truth the Believers - - -". Next time you meet a Muslim or someone else claiming terrorists and other Muslim warriors disuse the Quran to do their bloody work, show them this verse. #########The terrorists are not disusing the Quran - they are obeying it.

Tell the world how many Muslims there really are who "understand" the activists and how many potential terrorists there really are. But again: Remember that 70% of the Muslims are very ok. Be perhaps a little careful in given situations, but do not judge all and any Muslim to be a bad person - most of them are not, not even many of the 30%.

But there of course remains the problem: Who is who of them?


##143 8/74d: “- - - for them (warriors, terrorist and all their helpers and those giving them aid*) is the forgiveness of sins and a provision most generous”. This sentence tells a lot about Islam. And it also is a good pep talk.

It also may explain some of all the help terrorists get from “normal” Muslims.

But a serious question as a book with so many errors as the Quran is not from a god: Are these never proved claims true?

As for forgiving from Allah: See 2/187d above.

144 8/74h: "- - - for them (Muslims) is the forgiveness of sins and a provision most generous". Often promised, never anything proved - and besides: Who is behind the promise as there is no god behind the Quran? - no god makes that many errors.

As for forgiving from Allah: See 2/187d above.

145 8/74i: This verse is not from the Bible. (Actually very little in the Quran is from the Bible, though a lot is from Biblical legends, apocryphal - made up - scriptures and fairy tales inspired by the Bible - these, however, often varies much from the Bible. And We remind you: Both science and Islam have proved very thoroughly that the Quran's never documented claim that the Bible is falsified, is wrong.)

146 8/75a: “And those (non-Muslims*) who accept Faith (become Muslims*) subsequently, and fight for the Faith in your company - they are of you”. If you become Muslim and wage war for Islam, you have proved you are a real Muslim. A good kind of proof for any Muslim leader who needs warriors or terrorists.

147 8/75b: "- - - fight for the Faith - - -". This is not from the Bible. There is fighting in the OT, but for the nation. In NT physical fighting hardly is accepted at all. Yahweh and Allah the same god? Jesus and Muhammad in the same line of prophets? 2 imbecile questions. Incompatible with the Bible.

148 8/75d: "But kindred by blood have no rights against each other in the Book of Allah". Family ties were strong in Arabia, but Islam all the same split many families. It was essential to break down the family ties not to lose followers. This always have been a norm in extreme sects and is a normal custom for such sects even today.

149 8/75e: "- - - the Book of Allah - - -". Normally the Quran, here Allah's Plan and rules. But as no book of a quality like the Quran is from any god, who was then behind Allah's claimed Plan?

150 8/75g: "Verily Allah is well acquainted with all things". It definitely is no proved verity/truth. Similar to 8/53c and 8/63a above. But also see 2/233h above.

2048 + 150 = 2198 remarks.


Not formed like questions for proofs, but what needs to be proved normally easy to see all the same. And: References you do not find here, go to "1000+ Comments on the Quran".

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This work was upload with assistance of M. A. Khan, editor of islam-watch.org and the author of "Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism, and Slavery".